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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2003 :  12:14:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
While Roger Elvich is one of the OLD-TIMERS of the redemption movement, he is also the hardest to understand. There are many other people who do a better job of putting the knowledge into everyday useable language.

If you really want to get a crash course introduction to what this Redemption is all about, get the "New Beginnings" course from Wade and Cyndie in Arizona. That will get you started. Then you can proceed to material from people like Rice McCleod, Jack Smith, Barton Buhtz, and a few others.

If you are a little above average in your capacity for understanding the slightly abstract, you can get the basics of this down in about 6 months of concentrated study. If you spend only a half-hour per day on it, plan on it taking at least 2 years. There is much to learn, and people are finding out new stuff every week. I have contributed a small amount to the whole thing by discovering "perfected" UCC-1 filings to protect property from seizure for taxes or other reasons. A lot of people are currently doing UCC-1 filings on their homes based on the information I turned up. I found a brief from Whitier Law, describing how it is done, and referencing some 200 court cases, where it has been upheld.

I am continuing to study. Am I redeemed? Not fully, but I am making great progress. I started this journey of discovery back in December. Now 6 months later, I am beginning to feel I almost have a handle on it. But, I have been putting in 8 to 12 hours a day on it. I am also an engineer with a very analytical mind, so I absorb the details pretty well.

If you are considering doing this, if you feel you have been called to it, ( I feel people who can do this successfully have been called out by our Creator ) then plan on doing lots and lots of reading and studying and praying for guidance.

Peace to all,

Lewis
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2003 :  14:22:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't see how anyone can understand Roger Elvick's Redemption by reading those transcribed telephone conversations at freedomdomain. He's hard to understand because the conversations are so BoRiNg.
I don't know what is on that Roger Elvick CD they are selling over there, but if it's nothing but, or more of those telephone conversations, I think I'll pass.

I like Rice McLeod, so I think I'm going hang out with him for a while, i.e., order a few of his tapes and get his redemption book and see how it goes.

Thanks Lewish

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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2003 :  15:17:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Livefree,

I have 40 of Rice's sets of tapes on order. Contact me by private message for more info.

Lewis
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n/a
deleted

19 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2003 :  15:41:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Erwin Schiff has a great deal of knowledge about Government sponsored programs like taxation and social security and writes many fine books attesting to this fact. However being armed with this knowledge is not sufficient to win in court as you so elequently explain. I know several people who are now sitting in jail because they believed on the strength of Erwin's advice, they could prevail in thier tax cases.

To my knowledge, none of Erwin's clients have ever won a significant court decision on the matter of taxes. For this and other reasons, I would be very careful in recommending Erwin to anybody. To do so is to effectivly send them off to slaughter. Number one, the courts don't fight fair. They are exceedingly corrupt and constantly "morphing" to keep it that way; If someone comes up with a winning strategy, they are looking for ways to block that path to victory should someone attempt to use it in the future.

I believe from experience that the superior technique for dealing with tax issues is to get off the "radar screen" financially. When I brought this to Erwin's attention in August 2000, he did show some initial interest, but never followed up to learn the details.

If I were going to recommend anyone on taxes, it would be Dan Meador at http://www.lawresearch-registry.org/thehall.htm. I can vouch for Dan's integrity and his knowledge in both taxes and his ability to navigate the court system. Having said this, the use of anyone's advice becomes irrelevant and a distant second to getting off the "radar screen". In additon it costs a whole lot less and its foolproof.

quote:
Originally posted by doer


Irwin Schiff is the most visible of many "tax protesters" as defined by the "government." He really is not a "protester" because he advises all people to follow the statutes, and in so doing, is the leading seller of the "Internal Revenue Code" -- which is the IRS rule book. I have been listening to the court record regarding Irwin Schiff's TRO (temporary restraining order) concerning his book sales and seminar activities. Go to
http://www.paynoincometax.com/

The government's argument, totally accepted by Judge George (he even "speaks for the government"!), asserts no protection for "commercial speech" nor for "inciting illegal action." Schiff is accused of "promoting abusive tax shelters," but no evidence was ever presented to support this accusation. The "government" would not allow itself to be put on the witness stand (the judge consenting), even after Schiff was sworn in an testified under oath himself. So Schiff was not allowed to cross-examine their "testimony" that they presented in the form of affidavits. At that point, his loss was just a foregone conclusion.

Of course, we know the REAL REASON that Schiff lost his appeal to reject the TRO, and why he will probably lose the whole wagon: When the judge called him to answer, Schiff said, "Here!" He also had a LAWYER to represent him. Since he answered as his StrawMan, and since he was not speaking for himself as a Sovereign, HIS GOOSE IS COOKED.

By acceding to the court's jurisdiction, he abandoned any hope of a superior position. The question now is NOT "IF" he is guilty. The only question that remains is, "how big is his fine and sentence?"

The COMPLETELY BLATANT PREJUDICE of the "judge" is serious WARNING: DO NOT EVER ABANDON YOUR SOVEREIGNTY when entering Caesar's "territory" -- such as courts, bureaucracies, police stations, recording offices, etc. -- and even "traffic stops." We CANNOT BEAT CAESAR by using Caesar's "law" against him! He can change the rules anytime that he pleases. Only GOD'S LAW will defeat him, and we must endeavor to learn its application TO THE LETTER.

Be Well,
George


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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2003 :  19:50:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lewis,

Are all of the group that you mentioned "redeemed?" (Roger Elvich, Rice McCleod, Jack Smith, Barton Buhtz, etc.) -- whatever "redemption" means! You mentioned that some of them have spent hard time in Caesar's accomodations, and I fully understand that taking a few arrows is part of the price for pioneering new ground. But are they pretty much bullet-proof now, or is there a good chance that they will run aground again?

If you can detail some of their recent victories, it would be highly interesting and informative -- especially if the Principles involved were summarized.

Be Well,
Doer

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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 11 May 2003 :  21:08:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Doer,

Quite a few of Barton Buhtz's court transcripts are online. But, the way he, and Rice and Jack and Don and most others are dealing with taxes these days, is to simply give the taxing agency an instrument to discharge their taxes by using their Exemption. I know Eddie Kahn used a Bill of Exchange recently and the IRS was just happy as could be with it. When he checked on how they actually processed it, he discovered that it was handled by the bankruptcy division of the IRS. As far as I can find, there are only two such IRS offices in the US, one in Florida, and one in Seattle.

What we are learning, especially from those that have gone to court in the past couple of months, and walked away clean, is that you must TRULY UNDERSTAND what redemption is all about, and BELIEVE sincerely that our Heavenly Father has provided for all our needs. We have also learned that we need to use the tools of redemption very quietly and not upset the public with our knowledge.

The tools of redemption that we have been given are only for those who are called according to the Father's will. They are absolutely not for use by pagans. In fact, I believe that any pagan who attempted to use them would be roasted alive by the system.

Just a couple of short thoughts. If anyone wants to know more, let me know.

Lewis
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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2003 :  01:54:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It seems that pagans would be roasted alive (yum! yum!) because they could not comprehend the concept of Common Law as coming from our Creator. Nor the concept of Sovereignty coming from Him also. They would be attempting to declare their own "sovereignty" of themselves.

It is interesting that people who bring up the fact that the Federal Reserve Bank is a private corporation, are brushed off by Irwin Schiff. I have heard him do this on his radio program. He believes it is a governmant agency and the so-called Central Bank. An otherwise brilliant man cannot see the evidence. Somehow people are blinded by their [EGO] interpretation of the facts before them, while others see the Truth clearly.

So it takes true dedication and DEVOTION to one's Creator, in order to be led to the Truth in all things.

Be Well,
Doer
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Caleb
Advanced Member

Philippines
209 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2003 :  03:26:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lewis,

The Father is up to something, but I don't know what just yet. Although the approach being learned is different, the following quote from you applies to me EXACTLY.

"I am continuing to study. Am I redeemed? Not fully, but I am making great progress. I started this journey of discovery back in December. Now 6 months later, I am beginning to feel I almost have a handle on it. But, I have been putting in 8 to 12 hours a day on it. I am also an engineer with a very analytical mind, so I absorb the details pretty well."

I just served two non-statutory abatements today. We get to find out in ten days how "they" will respond to the Law we have laid down. You and I have been leading parallel lives, and I have to believe our Creator has a purpose for this.

I am also interested in knowing why the UCC redemption process will not work for non-believers. What I have been studying will only work for those willing to fully follow the Law of God, but what is it about the UCC (man's commercial law) that "discriminates"?
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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2003 :  04:52:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It is not really "the UCC redemption process" The UCC aspect is only a small part of it, and some even say not mandatory. It is only a means of collecting debts. The debts are incurred when Caesar or his minions violate The Law -- which means they damage you by using your property (your good name) for commercial purposes without your permission.

The UCC is also used to record your assets as a means of protecting your property from seizure. So it is limited to commercial aspects of our lives.

The Law -- the Common Law -- is what is really used to "redeem" us from the clutches of Caesar. You are familiar with it already, since you are using the Non-statutory Abatements. But the "redemption process" goes further by creating a "poison pill" that Caesar's flesh-eaters will think twice about taking.

Be Well,
Doer
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2003 :  13:27:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Caleb,

Doer partially explained it. You see, the tools that you are using underneath the UCC are the tools of our Creator. And unless you believe in him and obey him, then the tools are void.

I too, as well as many of the 100+ members of the formal group I participate in, believe that we have been called out to this process for some special reason. I don't think it is by any accident that what we are doing has been termed "redemption". I also see the Father's hand in protecting the internet so that we can have and share this information. It would be very easy for Caesar to cut us off from it, were it not for the Father. HE has granted this means of communication to us and is protecting it for us. Now, admittedly, Caesar has a lot of his filth up here, but we don't have to go there.

I will be sharing more of what I have done and what I am doing, after I have tested it and understand why it did or didn't work.

In the meantime, it is study time. Part time in man's law, part time in the Father's Law.

Peace to you all,

Lewis
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2003 :  15:59:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Larken Rose just sent out an email telling everyone on his list that his house was raided on May 6th by 12 IRS agents. He quotes, "Nonetheless, even already knowing how evil these extortionists are, it's not very fun to have a dozen armed Nazis rummaging around your house."

Larken doesn't hide from IRS. IRS knows he doesn't file tax returns. He's open about that. He tells IRS to come get him, arrest him, and prosecute him, and so far they haven't. Will they? Probably. Time will only tell. Is Larken "redeemed"? I don't think so-- he still answers to his ALL CAPITAL LETTER name.

Nobody deserves to be treated this way, but I am totally convinced that the ALL CAPITAL LETTER name is what decides who gets terrorized and who doesn't. I'm not saying that IRS will suddenly give up once the name is redeemed, but it's the most powerfull process I've ever seen in getting out of big brother's way.

Why some people are called to do this and some aren't, I don't know - We are all God's children and just because someone doesn't do, or know about this process, doesn't mean they deserve less protection from our creator, yet, as most of us can see, if they don't redeem, they don't have the same protection as those that have redeemed.

Edited by - Livefree on 12 May 2003 16:04:03
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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2003 :  18:06:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is what many other ones are seeing also. And...many are called {ecclesia} few are chosen {elect}. Still fewer have overcome by being faith-full.
Put yourself in the govts. shoes. If a person does not even know their name...they should be regulated and cared for. They are close to being functioning idiots, or humans, rather than children of the Most High. Yahushuah was not a respecter of PERSONS. Get it?
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2003 :  18:56:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, here is something for all to ponder on. I can't give the details yet, because I don't know if the court issued a gag order on what transpired. Once I know that, hopefully I will be able to post the case number and other info.

But here is how the story goes. Two men in a northern midwestern state, ( I am being vague here, because I don't want to violate a possible gag order ) were arrested in April on multiple Federal charges. Among those charges were Mail Fraud and Bank Forgery. When arrested and taken to jail, they requested to speak to the Judge, indicating that they did not intend to argue the charges and that they wanted an Appearance Bond. The next morning that request was granted. A few days later, they appeared in court. When the judge asked for their plea in the matter, they each answered as follows: "I accept the charges for value, I return the charges for value and discharge. I authorize you to use my exemption to discharge this matter. Please release my Bond." The judge then asked if they had anything else to say. Not knowing for sure what he wanted, each one repeated the above. The next time the judge asked if they had anything else to say, each one said NO, and then sat down.

After both had entered his plea, the judge said "I hereby find the defendants guilty. Sentencing will be in 30 days. They are free on Bond."

Last week they were back in court for their sentencing. In Federal court, you are required to make an allocution statement before sentencing. Now, I need to also tell you, that there were many more charges against the one person than there were against the other. Well, time for sentencing, the judge calls the first defendant by name and asks if he has anything to say. He said the exact same thing he said when he entered his plea. The second defendant did the same thing.

The judge says, "OK, I sentence the first defendant to 44 months in Federal Prison, and I sentence the second defendant to 20 months in prison". Well, at that point about a half-dozen U.S. Marshalls started forward with their handcuffs out to take the men into custody. Then the judge said "Hold on there fellas, I am discharging this case. These men are free to go." And, so the 2 men walked out of the court house.

Now, there are 2 important things to note here. One) the defendants, not the living men were sentenced. The Strawman for each was convicted, not the living man. Two) the judge "discharged" the case. He didn't dismiss it. That means this case can NEVER be re-opened.

And that, Brothers and Sisters, is what "Redemption at Law" is all about. But, to make it work, you must believe in what you know, and you must know who you are, and you must not hesitate or waver.

I know of another case in Idaho, that also took place last week. The one man stayed the course, and walked away. The other man wavered, and is now locked up in a mental hospital awaiting further tests.

Just a few thoughts for you to ponder on. I got this information from someone who was present at both trials. He provided counsel to all 4 men. ( I did not say legal counsel ).

Peace to all,

Lewis

Edited by - Lewish on 12 May 2003 18:58:17
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2003 :  19:42:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Among those charges were Mail Fraud and Bank Forgery.

Why these two men were brought into court on those charges? Did they actually commit those crimes, or did government just make them up?
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2003 :  19:50:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I thought that redeeming oneself also meant "staying out of trouble". Those two men sure don't sound redeemed to me, if what they were charged with they were actually doing.

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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2003 :  21:48:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Livefree,

Do you ever receive a piece of mail with your name in all CAPITAL letters? If so, you are committing mail fraud. Look it up in the government statues. My electric bill comes with my name in all CAPS, so I commit mail fraud every month.

As to the other charges, when there are over 60,000,000 laws in this country, some of which contridict others, who needs to make anything up. You just search until you find one that says what you want it to say.

The reason these men were charged is because they were being too public with what they have been given - namely Redemption. As I have said in several other posts, redemption is for those who are called by our Creator. It is not for the pagans. If you make it too public, i.e., display it in front of the pagans, you are going to be called to task.

In the case of the one man in Idaho, he tried to use a Closed Account Check to purchase a $10,000 TV system. ( Or at least this is what I was told. ) The store didn't want to accept the Closed Account Check. He made a big fuss about it and made threats and generally upset a lot of people in the public.

Now, you have to ask the question, was he really following the Lord's direction in attempting to buy such a thing, or had the evil one gotten influence over him and the charges were a way of bringing him back to where he should be, namely walking in the path of Light.

The judge made it very clear that he had done nothing wrong in attempting to use a Closed Account Check, but that he was VERY wrong when he made a public show out of it and upset a lot of people.

Just because you are "redeemed at law" doesn't mean that your life is going to be easy street. It means you are going to be tested over and over, just like our Savior was tested by the Pharisees and Saducees when he walked this earth. The only way to avoid it, is to not live.

Peace,

Lewis
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 12 May 2003 :  22:12:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Trying to buy a T.V. set with an "Account Closed" check is nothing more than attempted theft, stealing.

""The judge made it very clear that he had done nothing wrong in attempting to use a Closed Account Check, but that he was VERY wrong when he made a public show out of it and upset a lot of people."""

Yes, he was wrong for making a public show, but he still wouldn't have been able to take that T.V. out of the store with a Account closed check, don't you think?, or am I wrong about that? Is that what redeemed people are supposed to do, write bad checks?

Edited by - Livefree on 13 May 2003 00:34:50
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DanielJacob
Advanced Member

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 13 May 2003 :  00:09:17  Show Profile  Visit DanielJacob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Lewis,

Don't you think that answering to the name on the court papers transfers jurisdiction? Or is that not a problem? Wouldn't it be better to ask if the Judge is addressing him? Just a thought.

Peace brother.
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Caleb
Advanced Member

Philippines
209 Posts

Posted - 13 May 2003 :  06:21:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Brother Lewis,

Had these guys filed UCC financing statements or similar paperwork? Was this what made their statement effective, or could anyone repeat those exact words to a judge and achieve similar results? (Not that we'd want to without knowing why this worked). What is the "exemption" they used to discharge the matter, and can a case be discharged without it?

Also, can anyone request "to speak to the Judge, indicating that they did not intend to argue the charges"? Does this bypass the pre-trial hearing? Arguing charges in an Admiralty court is a recipe for disaster, so it makes sense to settle things with the judge beforehand.

Can anyone request an Appearance Bond, or is this UCC stuff as well? Does it avoid having to sign a bail notice? I'm still trying to sort out what originates in the UCC and what comes from simply knowing who you are in Law.
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 13 May 2003 :  13:01:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi DanielJacob,

The only proper way to answer to a name of court papers, if one has been redeemed, is to answer as follows: "I am the Secured Party for the person called". This keeps the living soul and the strawman separated. They are calling the strawman, who is dead and can't answer. You the living man don't want to take his place, so only answer as the Secured Party. If the judge demands your name, and won't accept secured party, then you have to play the game by informing him your name is your property and it is copyrighted. Then you ask the judge if he is ordering you to give up your property without compensation. He ain't gonna do that, as you could sue him in Federal court and get him de-barred as well as get everything he owns, because he would have been using a public office for theft.

Hi Caleb,

What these guys did works because of 2 major things. One they have a copyright to the strawman's name. Two they have a power of attorney over the strawman. The UCC filing only makes the first two things more visible to the public. They could have gotten the same results with the first two things and no UCC.

Yes, ANYONE can request to speak to the Judge for the purpose of asking for an appearance bond. Yes, this bypasses the pre-trial stuff. Yes, it avoids bail in the normal sense. The appearance bond is your bail. None of this is dependant on the UCC.

Most of the people who are getting hauled off to jail on charges are having it happen because they are upsetting the sheeple. They are disturbing Caesar's house. You can do all of this without disturbing Caesar. You just need to understand how. I believe it is quite easy once you get the hang of it. There are ways that can more or less make you look invisible to the pagans. They will not have a clue that you are walking in the Path of Light. And, only if the Master calls them, will they even begin to sense that anything is different.

Peace to all,

Lewis
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