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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2003 :  07:58:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Irwin Schiff is the most visible of many "tax protesters" as defined by the "government." He really is not a "protester" because he advises all people to follow the statutes, and in so doing, is the leading seller of the "Internal Revenue Code" -- which is the IRS rule book. I have been listening to the court record regarding Irwin Schiff's TRO (temporary restraining order) concerning his book sales and seminar activities. Go to
http://www.paynoincometax.com/

The government's argument, totally accepted by Judge George (he even "speaks for the government"!), asserts no protection for "commercial speech" nor for "inciting illegal action." Schiff is accused of "promoting abusive tax shelters," but no evidence was ever presented to support this accusation. The "government" would not allow itself to be put on the witness stand (the judge consenting), even after Schiff was sworn in an testified under oath himself. So Schiff was not allowed to cross-examine their "testimony" that they presented in the form of affidavits. At that point, his loss was just a foregone conclusion.

Of course, we know the REAL REASON that Schiff lost his appeal to reject the TRO, and why he will probably lose the whole wagon: When the judge called him to answer, Schiff said, "Here!" He also had a LAWYER to represent him. Since he answered as his StrawMan, and since he was not speaking for himself as a Sovereign, HIS GOOSE IS COOKED.

By acceding to the court's jurisdiction, he abandoned any hope of a superior position. The question now is NOT "IF" he is guilty. The only question that remains is, "how big is his fine and sentence?"

The COMPLETELY BLATANT PREJUDICE of the "judge" is serious WARNING: DO NOT EVER ABANDON YOUR SOVEREIGNTY when entering Caesar's "territory" -- such as courts, bureaucracies, police stations, recording offices, etc. -- and even "traffic stops." We CANNOT BEAT CAESAR by using Caesar's "law" against him! He can change the rules anytime that he pleases. Only GOD'S LAW will defeat him, and we must endeavor to learn its application TO THE LETTER.

Be Well,
George

Caleb
Advanced Member

Philippines
209 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2003 :  19:57:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had the privilege of being given my first real education in law by a man who fights Caesar using Caesar's law and consistently wins. This mostly involves the income tax code, but he applies it to other areas as needed. There are two aspects to his success.

The first one is that he uses administrative procedures to the fullest extent possible. What this means is he seldom darkens the interior of a courtroom. Many are eager to have their "day in court", but he learned the reality early on that this is where Caesar has the upper hand. For one seeking merely to avoid being abused by Caesar, the administrative procedures are perfect, for they cut off any government action before it begins. They find out that you are too tough a nut to crack before you are in a position to embarrass them publicly - in court. They do not want to have to play the hypocrite in court if they can avoid it. They only need a few high-profile convictions (like Schiff) in order to keep the masses convinced to keep filing their tax returns.

The second part to his success is spending lots and lots of time studying Caesar's laws. This can easily become your life, as it has for him. That's fine if you want to spend your time educating and helping others, but for those of us who have a real life, this is the "gotcha". Maintaining a position under God's Law is far easier to do. Most of what you must study is the scripture, which you should be studying anyway. So this puts us in a position of having one more motivation to know our Creator's commands (laws) and obey them.

It turns out that the reason that Caesar's laws, such as the income tax, do not apply to us is that they must be written so as to avoid conflict with God's Law. Since God's Law does not tax our income, neither can Caesar's. The moment there is a conflict, their own maxims of law make clear that Caesar's law is null and void. So they avoid this with tricks like never defining "income", and cleverly defining who the law applies to. The U.S. Income Tax law (as distinct from the Internal Revenue code, where all the penalties are), only applies to residents of Guam, Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands.

So if the IRS wants to use the Internal Revenue code to punish you for failing to pay "income" taxes, you simply get a copy of the record they keep on you, show where it claims you are a resident of the Virgin Islands, and provide proof that you reside elsewhere. This is just one of at least a hundred ways of showing from their own "law" that it does not apply to you. Ironically, it is because a judge knows it does not apply to us that he will never listen to a "tax protestor" who claims it is unconstitutional. He knows the reality that the "person" in front of him is wrongly applying the law to himself!

Having gotten started by studying Caesar's laws, I found this forum and discovered that knowing God's Law is the higher path. Yet I still look back into Caesar's law as a second witness that it truly does not apply to me. This is for the purpose of bearing witness to the truth, not to form the basis of an argument in court. For example, if a police officer ever tells me I must have a "driver's license" in order to legally "drive" on their roads, I will ask him what his law says is the definition of "drive" and "driver". Since it contains no definition (while words like "road" and "vehicle" are carefully defined) I will then explain that I have never driven any cattle or sheep in my life. Should he drag me before a judge anyway, I will still not answer to the ALL CAPS name, rather than trying to argue about the definition of "drive" with the judge.

What we have as a result of laws designed to enslave us that cannot contradict the perfect law of liberty, is a system of law so full of holes that it should not fool anybody. Instead, it fools almost everybody, and most of the rest devote their lives to fighting the system based on one or more holes they have discovered. True freedom occurs when we make the mental leap away from opposing Caesar's laws and devote ourselves instead to fully obeying God's Law. Then we can honestly stand before anyone and declare that we have violated no laws at all, not even Caesar's. The burden of proof is then on Caesar to prove otherwise, and he will find it impossible to do with those of us who know and walk in truth.

So I am grateful for what I have learned from those who know how to beat Caesar at his own game. There are brave souls out there winning small battles every day, in Caesar's courts using only his laws. However, I do not believe the war will be won this way. Scripture calls Caesar's present system "Babylon the Great", and the call of God is very clear to "come out of her, my people". This is how the Father has directed me. If we obey this call, then we leave Him free to destroy it, like Sodom, without harming any of His own children.
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2003 :  22:54:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Caleb,

How do you do this?.....

"So if the IRS wants to use the Internal Revenue code to punish you for failing to pay "income" taxes, you simply get a copy of the record they keep on you, show where it claims you are a resident of the Virgin Islands, and provide proof that you reside elsewhere."

I have heard this before, but I haven't found anyone who could tell me how to get this record.

Thanks.

Lewis
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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2003 :  02:24:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lewis,

The FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) allows you to get your "Master File." This contains all of the codes that they use to entrap you. There are organizations that will decode these for you, for a fee, of course.

Caleb, your essay is very good, and answers a lot of philosophical questions for me. Of course we should prefer to follow the Law of our Creator. Yet there are times when any method will do, for the sake of expediency, until we have become more knowledgeable in the Real Law, and can use it exclusively. Do you have access to the IRS de-coding manual, their Agent's Manual or any other such publications that may help us in this regard?

Be Well,
Doer
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Caleb
Advanced Member

Philippines
209 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2003 :  07:23:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The man I learned from is Pastor Richard Standring. His web site is:
http://www.irsdecoder.com/
He has the manuals that tell what the codes on your IRS Individual Master file mean. However, if the IRS is after you, what he will charge to take care of the problem for you is well worth it. For example, a notice from the IRS telling you that you owe them something (money, a form, an audit) can be used to stop them in their tracks. You mark it up showing all the contradictions on it (not U.S. gov't, does not comply with Paperwork Reduction Act, etc.), stamp it "Refused for fraud", and send it back to them. However, you must reference the specific fraud statute in order for this to work. Knowing that this will be done right and will be the end of the matter is worth a couple hundred FRNs in my book.

More serious issues require using FOIA to get the your Individual Master file, which will then show how many other files they have created on you. For example, if they want to claim that you owe them money, they must create a Business Master file and have you building truck chassis' in Puerto Rico, or some similar "taxable" activity. Most people just stand in front of a judge and say "duhhh" to their charges, and never know what an easily disproven mess the IRS created to charge them with. Again, you can go to a seminar and get educated about all the intricacies in the IRS code, or you can pay for someone to make it all go away for you. If you handle things properly in the future, you will never have to deal with this again.

In my case, I had all these manuals, but I gave them away when we moved because I realized I was never going to use them. I knew how to avoid the taxman in the future and I had already exited the system gracefully. Since my "income" from the years they could still try to audit was not substantial enough to make me a worthwhile target, I don't expect to be audited. However, if the IRS does send me a letter of any kind, I will simply forward it to Pastor Standring's organization and pay them to make it go away. This would be a small price to pay for the two years of complete freedom from concern about income taxes I have enjoyed so far.

I'll close with a reality check from my personal experience. It was purely selfish motives that made me to go to this seminar where my eyes were first opened. I wanted to keep ALL the money I earned from my work. Well, because I had a modest salary, a home mortgage, and a few children, I was keeping almost all of it as it was. Ironically, since the seminar I have not had a regular job or a successful business. So instead of getting rich now that I know how to avoid income taxes, God has had other plans for me, and they have not involved earning money at all presently. So be careful what you ask for. I wanted to avoid paying income taxes, and with no income at all, taxes are now the very least of my worries!

Edited by - Caleb on 24 Apr 2003 21:16:56
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DanielJacob
Advanced Member

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2003 :  12:30:34  Show Profile  Visit DanielJacob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Brothers,
For those that want an indepth and comprehensive explanation upon this subject; one of the best that I have found is Chris Hansen's site at:

http://familyguardian.tax-tactics.com/

It is a very extensive site, there is a 2000 page book that you can download, forms, manuals, Publications, letters, and I think there is even a copy of the 6209 Manual that has all of the codes and other info that the IRS maintains. Chris has done an outstanding job of putting all the info on this subject, including tatics to deal with most every situations. It is well worth the time to see all the info that is available.

Peace to all.
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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 18 Apr 2003 :  06:08:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks to Caleb and Daniel-Jacob for the references.

Following is another process based on Notary Public power. It is amazing how much power Notaries really have that most people are aware of, but this should not be too surprising, considering that they hold an important office in Caesar's system. This note comes from the TFN (Tax Freedom Now) Yahoo Group based on Irwin Schiff's material.

To: [email protected]
Subject: [TFN-California] Digest Number 208
Date: 18 Apr 2003 09:20:12 -0000

Subject: Re: Anybody actually done a “notarial protest” on the FTB (Franchise Tax Board – Calif)?

It is a process where you obtain an administrative judgment from a notary when the other party defaults on an agreement. It is used in commerce most often. I know it has been used for discharging debts with the IRS, but I was wondering if anyone had gone through that with the FTB. (and if anyone knows of a notary in CA familiar with the process). I asked a notary I use often, and he looked up in his handbook and said it effectively exists but had never done it.

Here is how it works:
When a third party claims that you owe them money, you reply that you accept their offer, and will pay as soon as you receive proof of claim. You make a conditional acceptance, and list what the conditions of this acceptance are: they must submit a verified bill (sworn to), a copy of the delegation of person who wants to collect, their badge number, the text of the law that makes you liable, a copy of any legal assessments sworn by a person who has authority, etc. You ask everything that would prove that the money is effectively owed, and give a certain amount of time to supply the requested information. Tto create estoppel, see
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tax-Freedom-Now/message/20332

When the third party fails to reply, they have dishonored you, and therefore defaulted. So you get a notary to contact the third party on your behalf, asking for the same items again. When they fail to answer again, the notary can issue a certificate of protest which is equivalent to an administrative judgment; at which point you have won.

So, anybody has knowledge of anyone doing that with the FTB? (Or with any other application?)

Be Well,
Doer

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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 25 Apr 2003 :  00:41:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Doer,

Why don't you contact Randy Lee. He has a number of processes similar to what you are discribing, and being in California, he has probably done the FTB.

Lewis
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2003 :  23:29:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I, too, live in California, and am expecting a Notice of Tax Due very shortly from the FTB. I've heard that the UCC tactics work for FTB notices although if you have a job, or bank account, they will go and get their money from your employer or bank, regardless of what tactic you are using to discharge the debt.

I found the following when I typed in "California Redemption filing" in Google:


By Barton Butz

My continued investigation of the redemption plan has revealed a very interesting pattern and curious phenomenon in relation to discharge of public taxing agencies (IRS and (California) FTB assesments).

For a number of months now I have been comparing experiences and sharing information with a number of others who are involved in and researching the mechanics of the UCC filings and the Redemption plan. One of the common experiences has been we have received reports and documentation that assessments were made by public agencies (even county tax assessors). When the patriot processed the necessary paperwork through the Dept. of the Treasury and then some weeks later called for a printout were told that the assessment was now "0."

However, we have had others who were receiving subsequent notices which showed that the original amount of assessment had been changed either to "0" or to a lesser amount. Looking at the supporting detail presented often the recipient was confused because the book-keeping did not make sense.

Now I personally observed several instances where the original assessment accepted for value has been reduced to "0" but not with any open acknowledgement of "discharge". Instead the accounting has been very creative by the IRS or the FTB to reduce the amount to either "0" or to a much lesser figure than originally assessed.

We think we are beginning to understand what is going on here. The public taxing agencies (IRS, FTB, etc.) apparantly are accepting the Accepted for Value and Discharge process through the Federal Window, but do not want it to be openly known. Let me give just four examples :

1) Mr, Forbes is retired. He Accepted for Value an IRS assessment for 1999. This came some months ago. Then recently he received a Notice that the IRS had changed his account. They stated that Mr. Forbes had miscalculated his Social Security figure on his return and thus (through their creative book-keeping) the IRS now actually showed a credit owed to Mr. Forbes. However, they did not send a refund. , but noticed him that credit was being applied to another year!

2) Mr. Holland is a chiropractor in Southern California. Around July 2000, he received a number of assessments from the FTB. They were coming to him at the rate of about two per week. He accepted them for value at that time. Well, in October Dr. Holland contacted me and wanted to know if it would be allright to call the FTB and get a printout of everything they might claim he owed. So he called and the gal brought up his name and SS# in her computer. Dr. Holland owed NOTHING! So he asked for a printout. She said they generally do not provide printouts and especially not when there is nothing due. So he got her name which he has in his file in case in case the FTB changes hteir mind.

3) Paul works with the agriculture industry in the San Joaquin Valley. He is close to retirement age. Recently the IRS sent him a Notice of Deficiency for several thousands of dollars. He responded by notifying the IRS and the U.S. Tax Court that he was accepting that Deficiency for value. Just before the end of November 2000, he received a Notice that the IRS had changed his account. At first he was upset because he thought they were continuing to assess him for the Deficiency. However, upon closer examination, we discovered some very creative book-keeping which reduced the amount of Deficiency to "0". But they now claimed that Mr. Young had neglected to include a Self-Employment Tax assessment. So they were now charging him with that, plus a penalty for not timely reporting that. So now he is accepting that for value and we will see how they crunch the numbers on this one!

4) Ken lives in Northern California. Last year the local county assessor had sent a claim for unsecured past due Property Taxes. Ken accepted the taxes for value and also included a Notice of Defect of Process form with the notification. Shortly, thereafter, Mr. Lake received a letter from the County stating the assessment had been reduced to "0". However, now things get very interesting. An associate of mine called the County Assessor's office and inquired about the discharge. He was quickly referred to a superior who told him that they had rejected the Accepted For Value and that Mr. Lake had satisfied the obligation in another way. So we contacted Ken Lake and Ken assured us he had taken no other action to satisfy the assessment in any other manner.

For some reason, these public taxing agencies are doing everything they can to keep from openly admitting or acknowledging that the Accepted For Value discharge process is being accepted by them. We continue to investigate this to see if we can come up with answers as to why.


For a copy of my latest investigative report on the Redemption Plan send a donation to Truth Radio.




Edited by - Livefree on 04 May 2003 23:35:02
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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2003 :  03:02:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I found this news story recently --

"PAPER TERRORIST' GETS FIVE YEARS IN PRISON"
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Jan. 18, 2003.
By JEFF COLE

Madison - A Town of Fredonia man whom authorities have termed a "paper terrorist" was sentenced Friday to five years in prison for blitzing about three dozen Ozaukee County officials with thousands of bogus legal documents. The case produced the first prison sentence to result from a special anti-terrorism Domestic Security Unit created by then-Attorney General Jim Doyle after the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. Among its other duties, the unit investigates and prosecutes anti-government activists who try to intimidate government officials, police and citizens by filing false legal documents.

PRISON TERM "SENDS A MESSAGE"
"I think this sentence does send a message to people like Mr. Magritz that there are going to be severe penalties if they abuse the law," said Assistant Attorney General Roy Korte, who prosecuted the case. Magritz has every right to believe whatever he wants, Korte said. However, he crossed the line when he began harassing public officials who were only doing their job.” After a not-guilty plea was entered for him, Magritz was convicted Nov. 5 on seven counts of criminal slander of title because he filed bogus documents in court.

RETALIATION SEEN AS MOTIVE
The charges were filed May 17 after Magritz bombarded officials by filing fake legal documents, which authorities believe was in apparent retaliation for Ozaukee County foreclosing on his 62-acre property along the Milwaukee River in the Town of Fredonia. The county took the property in 2001 because Magritz didn't pay about $30,000 in property taxes. Magritz filed involuntary bankruptcy petitions against a number of county officials, and also filed bogus liens against each official alleging they owed him $15 million. The bankruptcy petitions caused some officials' credit cards to be canceled, almost caused the sale of one supervisor's house to be stopped, and caused continuing credit problems for other officials.

PROSECUTION SOUGHT LONGER TERM
Magritz is unrepentant, Korte said in court Friday. When he was in the Dane County Jail, Magritz tried to file a Chapter 11 bankruptcy petition in federal court in Madison in which he named a number of public officials, including Foust, as creditors. "He has continued to harass these people by seeking to depose them," Korte said. "He needs to be told this is not acceptable. He is a paper terrorist who intends to intimidate and harass people." The judge said he did not believe that sending Magritz to prison for up to 15 years was right. He noted that not too long ago in Wisconsin, murderers often served only 15 years before being released. "As recalcitrant as Mr. Magritz is, I cannot see sending him to prison for 15 years," Foust said. "These are paper offenses. The harm was to people's property." Magritz said little that was easily understood during the court hearing. He seemed to be alleging that the state of Wisconsin was bankrupt, and also said several times when questioned by the judge that he "accepted for value and returned for value." He also demanded that his case be tried in federal court. (End of story)

Let this be a WARNING TO ALL -- Know THE LAW (the Common Law of our Creator) before initiating PROCESS. Then FOLLOW THE LAW TO THE LETTER!

Be Well,
Doer
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DanielJacob
Advanced Member

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2003 :  10:41:45  Show Profile  Visit DanielJacob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Brothers,

In dealing with these various agencies, it is important to understand what your standing is in Law. The abatement is one process that is available to you if, and only if, you do not claim or use certain benefits provided by the State, i.e. postal address, license, etc. I have suggested the below site before and I would recommend that if you still have some attachments to the State then check out this site. There is so much info here in one place. Chris is in San Diego and has had his dealings with the FTB there. It is well worth the look, and I don’t believe that you will be disappointed with his work.

http://familyguardian.tax-tactics.com/

Peace to all.
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2003 :  12:28:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Doer, Just another of someone knowing only about a tenth of what they really need to know to do the processes he was trying to do.

For example, as soon as the judge entered a "not-guilty" plea for him, Mr. Magritz should have said, "Fine, your honor, you have just made yourself my representative. How are we going to proceed against the state in this matter?" That would have removed the judge from being able to do anything further. A new judge would have had to be brought in. He could have then repeated the process with the new judge. They can not proceed without a plea. Mr. Magritz could just refuse to enter a plea, and when the judge entered another not-guilty plea, he could have done the same thing again. This becomes a Mexican Standoff.

But, the more important thing is, he should have done the right things to prevent it from ever being called to court. You can not win in court. There is no court. It is only the judge's chambers. And, he is going to decide against you. So, don't give him the opportunity.

Just a few thoughts. I notice we are having server problems. My post to LiveFree didn't go thru. I will try to remember what I tried to say and re-post it.

Peace to all,

Lewis
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2003 :  13:05:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, I have no opinion of Chris Hansen's site other than he has written a lot of letters to IRS and FTB and they have written a lot of letters to him!

I will tell you what I am going to do with FTB ;-) - As soon as I can quit my job I will let their assessments go to a lien and then get the lien removed. I know of someone that has been doing that successfully using UCC. He actually guarantees the process or your money back -

I am so tired of writing letters and hiring various people to help with FTB matters. If you have a job, they will get their money, no matter what.



Edited by - Livefree on 05 May 2003 13:07:24
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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2003 :  00:07:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Lewis,

The procedure you mention is not familiar to me. What Maxim or other Principle is involved? Where is it documented?

Livefree,

The California FTB is supposed to be the worst tax collection agency in the entire country -- far worse than IRS. They just steamroll ahead, no matter what you say or do to rebut their illegal activities. So I would be interested in the process of which you speak, because I see the day approaching soon that we will be knocking heads.

Be Well,
Doer
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2003 :  08:50:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
doer, here's the website for the lien removal:

lvtaxservices.com

The link is on the upper right hand side of the webpage: Federal Tax Lien Removal. I was on a conference call the other night and the guy that does this said it will work for state tax liens also.
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n/a
deleted

1 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2003 :  02:23:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
greetings george, one of the primary reasons i believe mr schiff will more than likely lose his case is simply due to the fact he has not rebutted the assumption of liability ceasar has made on him based on his citizenship status. he is still a U.S. citizen and has not removed himself administratively from the assumed jurisdiction of the the corporation called the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. this is of course, in addition to the points you have correctly pointed out. blessings to you...rick kamp

Originally posted by doer

Irwin Schiff is the most visible of many "tax protesters" as defined by the "government." He really is not a "protester" because he advises all people to follow the statutes, and in so doing, is the leading seller of the "Internal Revenue Code" -- which is the IRS rule book. I have been listening to the court record regarding Irwin Schiff's TRO (temporary restraining order) concerning his book sales and seminar activities. Go to
http://www.paynoincometax.com/

The government's argument, totally accepted by Judge George (he even "speaks for the government"!), asserts no protection for "commercial speech" nor for "inciting illegal action." Schiff is accused of "promoting abusive tax shelters," but no evidence was ever presented to support this accusation. The "government" would not allow itself to be put on the witness stand (the judge consenting), even after Schiff was sworn in an testified under oath himself. So Schiff was not allowed to cross-examine their "testimony" that they presented in the form of affidavits. At that point, his loss was just a foregone conclusion.

Of course, we know the REAL REASON that Schiff lost his appeal to reject the TRO, and why he will probably lose the whole wagon: When the judge called him to answer, Schiff said, "Here!" He also had a LAWYER to represent him. Since he answered as his StrawMan, and since he was not speaking for himself as a Sovereign, HIS GOOSE IS COOKED.

By acceding to the court's jurisdiction, he abandoned any hope of a superior position. The question now is NOT "IF" he is guilty. The only question that remains is, "how big is his fine and sentence?"

The COMPLETELY BLATANT PREJUDICE of the "judge" is serious WARNING: DO NOT EVER ABANDON YOUR SOVEREIGNTY when entering Caesar's "territory" -- such as courts, bureaucracies, police stations, recording offices, etc. -- and even "traffic stops." We CANNOT BEAT CAESAR by using Caesar's "law" against him! He can change the rules anytime that he pleases. Only GOD'S LAW will defeat him, and we must endeavor to learn its application TO THE LETTER.

Be Well,
George

[/quote]
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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2003 :  05:13:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rick,

How does one, "remove himself administratively from the assumed jurisdiction of the the corporation called the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?"

Be Well,
Doer
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2003 :  13:13:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is a question someone posed to Rice McLeod on citizenship:

Question #1: Is it a good idea to do some kind of registration or clarification of your citizenship before you take these other steps with the power of attorney and such?

Answer #1: No, I don't think it has anything to do with any of that. I think that's a decision you make on everything that you do. I expatriated and did all of those things you referred to three or four times, but you see the government doesn't pay any attention to that. They will just keep coming after you as if you had never filed anything. So, I approach them with the fact that I have power of attorney to represent my "strawman". I tell them if they have anything to say then they need to write and tell me because I represent the "strawman" and all of his affairs. Then I send a copy of my power of attorney to them.

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Caleb
Advanced Member

Philippines
209 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2003 :  16:49:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The government will keep coming after you as long as you treat them like they are real. They are a fiction, and are to be dealt with as such. This is why Randy Lee's approach is the only one that works in the long run. He knows how to show that they are a fiction AND how to act like they are a fiction. We have lived all our lives treating them as real, and it is this behavior that makes their fiction real.

We want some silver bullet to make them go away, but we miss the larger picture here. This is a spiritual exercise given us by our Creator. He wants to see if we will treat Him as real, and this world as the fiction that it is (II Cor. 4:18). Then He "blesses" us by sending the goon squads out to test us again and again until we get it right. What we get right is our mindset - our ability to "see" the kingdom (John 3:3), not some paperwork we file.
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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2003 :  18:17:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Livefree and Caleb are making wonderful points!

Yet we must do some basic stuff required by Caesar in order to live in a world of commerce. When we have our own land and can grow our own tomatoes, then we need not deal at all with Caesar. On the other hand, we also have free choice, and can remain in commerce -- if only to help others find freedom. It all depends on our calling.

We must also keep in mind that Caesar's System is a "moving target." The rules change constantly, and he is always covering his tracks, so that tracking down the Truth is a continual challenge. It amounts to a life's work for us, just to keep abreast of the strategies that will guarantee our freedom to act according to our Conscience -- which is the Voice of our Creator.

Be Well,
Doer
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 10 May 2003 :  19:51:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The information found at freedomdomain.com/redemption1.html offers a few good tips and advice on redemption. It says that once you learn the principles of redemption there is no need to buy any how-to book, you'll just know how to respond. So, I suppose I'll get some of Roger Elvick's material and get some understanding. Caesar is coming..

Here's a small clip from that website:

To counter this, the system MUST make it LOOK LIKE it isn't working, regardless of what the truth is. Otherwise, when proven to work, you would see the floodgates come bursting open with people trying to leave Babylon. Who could blame them? At the same time, who could blame the "system" for trying to keep it's slaves on the plantation. (Don't wonder near the 'outside' zone, you are likely to get 'ideas' and realize that only a piece of paper is keeping you locked up). Learning and studying this information is the only thing that will teach you whether this is "real" or not. And you will decide for yourself. Then, nobody can convince you otherwise. On one phone conversation with Roger, he said "Just because this stuff works for me, doesn't mean it's automatically going to work for the next person". What he meant by that is : Everyone's different, and if you are going to go out and do things and get into trouble and think this will work to get you out, then think again.... That would be a "loophole". Only when you truly understand this information, (by making the love of Freedom, and not the love of Money, your #1 focus), then everything will fall into place, and you can go out and apply the "principles" in the world as a true "principal" of the account. This is how Roger lives day to day, and it is all done without the use of Federal Reserve Notes, or debt instruments of any kind.

If I can offer a word of caution to anyone thinking about using "Redemption" in court, it is this : DO NOT try to start learning this or using this process because you have gotten into trouble. Instead, start learning it NOW, so you know what to do in case any problems come along in the future. If you are confronted with an immediate problem, there is NO TIME to learn this material. Average Expected time span for learning this should be 1 1/2 to 2 years minimum, more like 3 or 4 years.

Edited by - Livefree on 10 May 2003 19:56:25
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