| Author |
 Topic  |
|
BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Dec 2004 : 12:53:56
|
No, things have not changed. Graven images are still being worshiped. There are Jesus on the cross statutes everwhere this time of the year not to mention the billions hanging around people's necks every day.
I not only believe it, I can prove it.
Best,
Steve |
 |
|
|
Cornerstone Foundation
Advanced Member
uSA
254 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2004 : 13:23:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by BatKol
No, things have not changed. Graven images are still being worshiped. There are Jesus on the cross statutes everwhere this time of the year not to mention the billions hanging around people's necks every day.
I not only believe it, I can prove it.
Best,
Steve
Cornerstone Foundation wrote:
Steve,
You have recognition of the Jesus on the cross statues and the billions hanging around peoples neck every day gods....
but do you recognize and acknowledge that the FEDERAL gods, STATE gods, COUNTY gods, and CITY gods are "in Yahweh's face" or "in opposition to Yahweh"?
Respectfully Submitted,
Marty |
|
|
|
BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2004 : 13:52:51
|
Marty said: but do you recognize and acknowledge that the FEDERAL gods, STATE gods, COUNTY gods, and CITY gods are "in Yahweh's face" or "in opposition to Yahweh"?
Me: No. They get their day in the sun for a specific purpose until Daniel 11:34 - 12:1 happen.. After the 4th Kingdom is destoyed, then the people will be free. The Bible says it's all part of the plan. No GOVT does anything what-so-ever without YHWH's 'permission'. "Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, for wisdom and might are His. . . . He removes kings and raises up kings; He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding (Daniel 2)...Even Jesus told Pilate that he has NO power unless it is given to him by his Father. Nebuchadnezzer had to learn this fact the hard way, "They shall make you eat grass like oxen; and seven times shall pass over you, until you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He chooses" (Daniel 4).
Peace,
Steve
|
|
|
|
source
Senior Member
Canada
65 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2004 : 17:00:42
|
Yes praise Jah as he has given us the gift of choice. His law or ours.
Men have for thousands of years for greedy and covetous purposes decieved the minds of other men to get them to bow to the rules of their own covetous design. 100% of the laws of the world in addition to God's laws are written by false god's.
We as of God's first command are not to bow. This in light may lead us to conclusion as to why the holy name of God and his son were and are obscured from the sight of men in search of his spirit and energy.
We know Satan will appear as an angel of light or the proverbial Wolf in sheeps clothing.
The best cloth of all to deceive the multitudes is the word of God itself that has indeed been altered and disgraced with the removal of his sacred name by those of avarice as a source of their power.
The book "Hidden messages in Water" dispenses with all the argument, rhetoric and bloated speculations of men and addresses the source of all power in our lives if we choose to accept the offer of it's undeniable revelations.
But upon such discovery and awakening then the social type bonding of the hageling and pride related exchanges would cease and the ego of man would have to step down in humble awe of such a universal truth...
Some of the posters on this forum are in all appearance of the truth being revealed , quite opposed to such a panacea for confusion as that confusion is their one and driving force.
Blessings upon our collective ability to shed the scales of deceit darkness and falsehood to gain his everlasting light of truth.
Praise YHWH Psalms 118:8; 2Peter 2:3 |
Edited by - source on 27 Dec 2004 03:14:54 |
|
|
|
True North
Advanced Member
USA
163 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2004 : 21:46:06
|
In the book entitled Baal Worship the author Peter J. Peters writes...
Thanks for that quote and expounding ... Exodus 32:24 ... "And I said unto them, Whosoever hath any gold, let them break it off. So they gave it me: then I cast it into the fire, and there came out this calf" ...
Did the calf leap out of the fire, a god with power? Or is this an analogy of a mindset that leaped into the people so willing to trust in themselves but not HaShem?
It would seem that if the calf actually leaped out of the fire and later verse 4 ... "(Aaron) fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made (06213 asah = made from existing not 01254 bara = created out of nothing) it a molten calf" ... then something metaphysical is happening which could allow for people trusting it as a god by observation. Something metaphysical that would allow worship of stone, metal and wood as god. Other places in the TaNaK indicate that the metaphysical was/is possible (Exodus 7:11-12) but not from the Source.
A possibility but this could mean that that this "something metaphysical" changed and we no longer experience this by observation, only by mindset. So perhaps this gold (calf) represents the mindset of the people trusting in gold and their collective power as a people to deliver them? Perhaps this passage reflects much the same mindset that exists in trusting in silver and gold or the mindset of trust in the fiat banking system of today for provision instead of Hashem.
This may be a very real experience that changed the mindset of the people to trust and defend their wealth represented in this gold. A very real analogy represented today in the trust of the people in the governments of men and their money system.
TN |
|
|
|
legalbear
Senior Member
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2004 : 22:23:19
|
quote:
so willing to trust in themselves but not HaShem?
quote:
the fiat banking system of today for provision instead of Hashem.
In John 17:6 Jahshuwah says, "I have manifested Your Name [I have revealed Your very Self, Your real Self] to the people..."
In John 17:26 Jahshuwah again says, "I have made Your Name known to them..."
In John 12:26 Jahshuwah says, "If anyone serves Me, he must continue to follow Me [ [Joseph Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon.] to cleave steadfastly to Me, conform wholly to My example in living and, if need be, in dying] and wherever I am, there will My servant be also."
I have a friend that says that calling Jahuwah "Hashem" is the same as calling Him "what's his name."
Based upon the above scriptures I was recently given the following revelation:
Jahshuwah made the Father's name known;
We are to follow His example;
Which gives rise to the question, are you a name concealer, or a name revealer? If you are a name concealer, why aren't you following Jahshuwah's example? I am also of the opinion that people that use G-o-d as the Father's name are name concealers. |
|
|
|
Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 01:22:30
|
Greetings and salutations in the name of the King, brother Steven:
Peace be unto the house.
quote:
Marty said: but do you recognize and acknowledge that the FEDERAL gods, STATE gods, COUNTY gods, and CITY gods are "in Yahweh's face" or "in opposition to Yahweh"?
Me: No.
Hosea 8:4 They have set up kings [men of authority], but not by me: they have made princes [rulers], and I knew it not [I do not recognize them]: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols [caused pain and suffering], that they may be cut off.
Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings [rulers] of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse [The King of Kings, and the Lord of lords], and against his army.
Then you are of the opinion that those who are "against Yahowah and his anointed", as it is written [Psalm 2:2; Act 4:26], are cognizant that they are being obedient to the will of Yahowah by hating Him and being in opposition to His Authority, and we should join them in their efforts?
What was it that Dawid, a man whom Yahowah apparently called, "a man after mine own heart [mental disposition]", said? Oh, yeah, now I remember...
Do not I hate them, O Yahowah, that hate thee? and am not I grieved [cut off] with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
And what was it that Yahowah said about confederacies and following a multitude to do evil?
And if it seem evil unto you to serve Yahowah, choose you this day whom ye will serve...but as for me and my house, we will serve Yahowah.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 27 Dec 2004 07:26:50 |
|
|
|
source
Senior Member
Canada
65 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 03:01:53
|
God is not the author of confusion we are. The tetra grammaton is four letters. The true pronunciation is unknown. Haggling like Children over who has got it right is fruitless..
One thing is known he wants love to prevail! Any argument ? Take it up with the frozen crystals of water that tell it all .
"Hidden messages in water" by Masoru Emoto ends the rhetoric and argument nicely. Will any look before they continue to digress from the Love??? |
|
|
|
BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 08:06:32
|
Greetings everyone,
TN said: Perhaps this passage reflects much the same mindset that exists in trusting in silver and gold or the mindset of trust in the fiat banking system of today for provision instead of Hashem.
Steve: Not only the fiat banking system but also the fiat money system. When we discharge at the various CORPS this strengthens the fiat money system and also strengthens the SYSTEM by collecting a TAX on the goods we want.
brother Robert said: Then you are of the opinion that those who are "against Yahowah and his anointed", as it is written [Psalm 2:2; Act 4:26], are cognizant that they are being obedient to the will of Yahowah by hating Him and being in opposition to His Authority
Steve: "THEY" need not be cognizant of their hating YHWH. "THEY" were created for an express purpose which is the will of YHWH, be it for good or evil.
Prov 16:4 YHWH hath made every things for His own purpose, yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Isaiah 46:9-10
Remember the former things of old: for I am Elohim, and there is none else; I am Elohim, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
brother Robert: , and we should join them in their efforts?
Steve: If we use FRN's we join "THEM" in their SCHEME, like it or not. In for a penny, in for a pound.. can't be only a little pregnant, etc.. The FRN is the sum total of "THEIR" game and I am guilty of using the luxury of their CONSUMER system and guilty of paying the TAXES at the point of purchase which strengthens THEM. When Daniel 12:1 happens we will (hopefully) no longer have the option.
Peace,
Steve
|
Edited by - BatKol on 27 Dec 2004 09:53:30 |
|
|
|
BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 09:23:16
|
brother Robert said: What was it that Dawid, a man whom Yahowah apparently called, "a man after mine own heart [mental disposition]", said? Oh, yeah, now I remember...
Do not I hate them, O Yahowah, that hate thee? and am not I grieved [cut off] with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
Steve: This is the same David that joined the Philistines and sought to go against Israel in
battle. He was a shifty charecter, yet YHWH still said he was a man after His own heart.
brother Robert: And what was it that Yahowah said about confederacies and following a multitude to do evil?
Steve: Apply that phrase to the FRN and CORP consumer purchases and TAX to boot. Imagine what would happen if even a small group decided to 'just say no'.
brother Robert: And if it seem evil unto you to serve Yahowah, choose you this day whom ye will serve...but as for me and my house, we will serve Yahowah.
Steve: When the Joshua and the Israelites all agreed to this in Joshua 24 it did not take them long to breach this same agreement after Joshua died in Judges 2:11. The Israelites were punished in verse 14 but then redeemed in verse 16. They broke the agreement again in verse 17, were punished and redeemed AGAIN in verse 18. In verse 19 they broke the agreement yet again and YHWH punished them again in verse 20, etc, etc, etc, etc. This pattern of the Israelites is why the series of exiles has been put upon them.
The last exile, the subjection to the Roman 4th kingdom, is still upon the planet until Daniel 12:1. The weapons have not been turned to plowshares yet, everybody from the least to the greatest does not know YHWH yet, and the 4th kingdom KING still apportions land at a price. Moshiach ben David has not yet come.
Peace,
Steve
|
|
|
|
Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 10:01:05
|
Greetings and salutations in the name of the King, Steven:
Peace be unto the house.
Though we agree that the Kingdom has yet to be fully manifested, you seem to be of the opinion that it doesn't even exist [and for those who only believe in the governments of the creature [man] it doesn’t]. Is this correct reasoning on our part?
Yasha’yahu [Isaiah] 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of Dawid, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of Yahowah of hosts will perform this.
Henceforth; minney attah, from this time
HENCEFORTH, adv. hens'forth. From this time forward.
When was that written? Was it before our beloved Dani’el, or after?
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
|
|
|
Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 10:07:14
|
quote:
Steve: This is the same David that joined the Philistines and sought to go against Israel in battle. He was a shifty charecter, yet YHWH still said he was a man after His own heart.
So, rather than answer to the statement, we seek instead to discredit the speaker's credibility. Where have we seen this type of subterfuge before? Oh yes, we remember, from the government you apparently defend as being "ordained by Yahowah".
And you are still clinging desperately to the misconception that if an embassador uses foreign currency and pays sales tax while doing his Master's work in a foreign nation that he has committed High Treason against his Master [President or whatever!] and should be executed? The world would soon be out of embassadors!
And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Was Yahowshua a traitor to his King for giving these orders?
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 27 Dec 2004 10:41:56 |
|
|
|
Cornerstone Foundation
Advanced Member
uSA
254 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 11:09:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by BatKol
brother Robert: And if it seem evil unto you to serve Yahowah, choose you this day whom ye will serve...but as for me and my house, we will serve Yahowah.
Steve: When the Joshua and the Israelites all agreed to this in Joshua 24 it did not take them long to breach this same agreement after Joshua died in Judges 2:11. The Israelites were punished in verse 14 but then redeemed in verse 16. They broke the agreement again in verse 17, were punished and redeemed AGAIN in verse 18. In verse 19 they broke the agreement yet again and YHWH punished them again in verse 20, etc, etc, etc, etc. This pattern of the Israelites is why the series of exiles has been put upon them.
The last exile, the subjection to the Roman 4th kingdom, is still upon the planet until Daniel 12:1. The weapons have not been turned to plowshares yet, everybody from the least to the greatest does not know YHWH yet, and the 4th kingdom KING still apportions land at a price. Moshiach ben David has not yet come.
Peace,
Steve
Cornerstone Foundation wrote:
Steve,
Yes, in the history of our Israylite ancestors there have been many cycles when disobedience occurred...then the punishment and consequences enumerated in Deuteronomy 28 would occur....until Israyl cried out to Yahweh....then the salvation of Yahweh would be experienced....grace for obedience would come....and as a result of obedience the blessings of Deuteronomy 28 would occur....when Israyl was fat and blessed they would again become disobedient and the cycle would start over again.
Just because such disobedience has happened and is happening and will happen that certainly does not give you and us a legimate excuse to participate in and to promote the disobedience that brings punishment on Israyl.
quote:
Revelation 17:17 states...
But Yahweh has put in their hearts to perform His will; and to agree, and give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of Yahweh will be fulfilled.
Questions:
1. Has Yahweh put it in your heart, Steven, to promote the kingdom of the beast?
2. Do you recommend that we promote the kingdom of the beast?
3. Should you encourage your children to....
..........a.)promote the kingdom of the beast or
......... b.) to withdraw from the kingdom of the beast and promote the Kingdom of Yahweh?
quote:
Matthew 18:7 states...
Woe to the world because of temptations to sin! It is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the man through whom the temptations come!
Matthew 18:6 warns....
But whoever causes one of these little ones, who believe in Me, to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea.
We pray that He who has begun a good work in your children will complete it until the day of Yahshua Messiah.
We should all be encouraged to keep in mind that the words we write upon this forum may be read by...and may possibly influence... many people. Those words may be used as evidence for or against us in the day of judgement....may we all be guided by Yahweh's Set Apart Spirit to choose those words carefully.
Best Regards,
Marty |
Edited by - Cornerstone Foundation on 27 Dec 2004 11:23:15 |
|
|
|
Cornerstone Foundation
Advanced Member
uSA
254 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 11:32:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by BatKol
brother Robert: And what was it that Yahowah said about confederacies and following a multitude to do evil?
Steve: Apply that phrase to the FRN and CORP consumer purchases and TAX to boot. Imagine what would happen if even a small group decided to 'just say no'.
Peace,
Steve
Cornerstone Foundation wrote:
Steve,
You have raised something interesting to consider here. You are a thinker.
What do you project the scenerio would be if even a small group decided to 'just say no'?
Respectfully Submitted
Marty |
|
|
|
legalbear
Senior Member
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 12:01:02
|
quote:
The tetra grammaton is four letters. The true pronunciation is unknown.
One thing is known he wants love to prevail!
Will any look before they continue to digress from the Love???
Firstly, we know from Hebrews 13:8, “Jahshuwah the Anointed One the same yesterday, and today, and forever.”
Secondly, we know from Hebrews 2:12 that, “…[He] will declare [the Father’s] name unto [His] brethren…”
Since Jahshuwah is the same yesterday, and today, and forever, that would mean that He is still declaring the Father’s name unto His brethren today. If Jahshuwah is not declaring His Name to you I would have to ask, who are you? Are you one of the brothers? When you say, “The true pronunciation is unknown...” you make it sound like the Set Apart Spirit is not teaching you how to pronounce His Name. You make it sound like you are not hearing from the Father; like you’ve been cut off? Or, is it like you've never been in communication with the Father. Is it your position that the Set Apart Spirit does not know how to pronounce the Father’s Name?
Thirdly, we know about the great commandments to love from Matthew 22; in particular this commandment:
quote:
37And He replied to him, You shall love the Jahuwah your Mighty Creator with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind (intellect).
38This is the great (most important, principal) and first commandment.
Fourthly, from 1 John we know the following things about love:
quote:
1 John 2:5 But he who keeps and treasures His Word; who bears in mind His precepts, who observes His message in its entirety, truly in him has the love of and for Jahuwah been perfected; completed, reached maturity. By this we may perceive, know, recognize, and be sure that we are in Him:
quote:
1 John 3:10 By this it is made clear who take their nature from Jahuwah and are His children and who take their nature from the devil and are his children: no one who does not practice righteousness; who does not conform to Jahuwah's will in purpose, thought, and action is of Jahuwah; neither is anyone who does not love his fellow believer in The Anointed One.
So, conforming to Jahuwah’s will in purpose, thought, and action is very important. Part of conforming to His Will is to reveal His name among the brothers and sisters. What is unloving about anything Jahuwah or Jahshuwah ever did?
quote:
1 John 3:23 And this is His order, His command, His injunction: that we should believe in; put our faith and trust in; and adhere to and rely on the name of His Son Jahshuwah the Messiah, and that we should love one another, just as He has commanded us.
So, believing on this name that you say cannot be pronounced is put ahead of, and made more important than, loving one another. Sometimes people tell me that they have a friend, but, they can’t remember that friend’s name. When that happens, I wonder to myself, they must not be much of a friend. How are you going to be the Father’s friend, like Abraham was, if you can’t even pronounce His name?
quote:
1 John 5:2 By this we come to know, recognize, and understand that we love the children of Jahuwah: when we love Jahuwah and obey His commands, orders, charges--when we keep His ordinances and are mindful of His precepts and His teaching.
As I have said already, with citation, is that obeying His command, order and charge is that we follow His example and reveal His Name among the brothers and sisters. We do this when we love Him!
quote:
1 John 5:3 We show that we love Jahuwah when we obey his laws.
Look what Malachi 3:16 has to say in support of this:
quote:
16 Then those who feared Jahuwah talked often one to another; and Jahuwah listened and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him of those who reverenced and worshipfully feared Jahuwah and who thought on His name.
17 And they shall be Mine, says Jahuwah the Mighty Ruler, in that day when I publicly recognize and openly declare them to be My jewels (My special possession, My peculiar treasure). And I will spare them, as a man spares his own son who serves him.
18Then shall you return and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him who serves God and him who does not serve Him.
So, if you want to “love” the Father and be one of His, you better start thinking “on His Name” and revealing it among the brothers and sisters.
|
|
|
|
Cornerstone Foundation
Advanced Member
uSA
254 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 12:13:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by BatKol
Greetings everyone,
TN said: Perhaps this passage reflects much the same mindset that exists in trusting in silver and gold or the mindset of trust in the fiat banking system of today for provision instead of Hashem.
Steve: Not only the fiat banking system but also the fiat money system. When we discharge at the various CORPS this strengthens the fiat money system and also strengthens the SYSTEM by collecting a TAX on the goods we want.
brother Robert: , and we should join them in their efforts?
Steve: If we use FRN's we join "THEM" in their SCHEME, like it or not. In for a penny, in for a pound.. can't be only a little pregnant, etc.. The FRN is the sum total of "THEIR" game and I am guilty of using the luxury of their CONSUMER system and guilty of paying the TAXES at the point of purchase which strengthens THEM. When Daniel 12:1 happens we will (hopefully) no longer have the option.
Peace,
Steve
Cornerstone Foundation wrote:
Steve,
Please correct us if we are inferring something different than what you are intentionally implying or rationalizing by your statements above and related statements in other posts by you...
It seems to us that you are saying that just because one is participating in the "Babylonian system" in any degree...he or she may as well participate to a greater degree.........in for a penny ...in for a pound, can't be only a little pregnant.
Questions:
1. In which way will a man or woman be promoting and aiding and abetting an unholy system to a greater degree:
a.)if he or she receives federal reserve notes and exchanges them for groceries.
b.)if he or she receives federal reserve notes, deposits them in a bank that is participating in the federal reserve system so that those funds can promote the usury system in true Israyl and then withdraws some from time to time to exchange for groceries.
2. Is it important to either be totally out of the Babylonian System...or would you say if one is participating in any way he or she would be no worse off if they were participating in and promoting the Babylonian System to a very significant degree?
These are issues we are working through ourselves. We welcome any input and/or guidance that you or others in the Ecclesia can give us in this regard.
If there is any hypocrisy in our walk and in our service for Yahweh's Kingdom purposes it is certainly appropriate for you to point that out to us and expose it to us and perhaps to others.
Thank you for your help in this regard.
Respectfully Submitted,
Marty |
|
|
|
legalbear
Senior Member
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 12:43:48
|
between him who serves God and him who does not serve Him
I reread my post and am holding my head in anguish. Please, all who read the above post, strike this reference to G-- in my post and replace it with Jahuwah. Thank you. I feel like I'm a judge talking to the jury.  |
|
|
|
Cornerstone Foundation
Advanced Member
uSA
254 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 12:59:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by BatKol
Greetings everyone,
Prov 16:4 YHWH hath made every things for His own purpose, yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Isaiah 46:9-10
Remember the former things of old: for I am Elohim, and there is none else; I am Elohim, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
brother Robert: , and we should join them in their efforts?
Steve: If we use FRN's we join "THEM" in their SCHEME, like it or not. In for a penny, in for a pound.. can't be only a little pregnant, etc.. The FRN is the sum total of "THEIR" game and I am guilty of using the luxury of their CONSUMER system and guilty of paying the TAXES at the point of purchase which strengthens THEM. When Daniel 12:1 happens we will (hopefully) no longer have the option.
Peace,
Steve
Cornerstone Foundation wrote:
Steven,
Do we in fact "join THEM in their SCHEME if we use federal reserve notes"?
What do the following verses mean in that regard? Do they speak to that issue?
quote:
Luke 16:8-13.....
From the Book of Yahweh....
Then the ruler commended the dishonest manager for having looked to his own interests. For the children of this world are wiser in dealing with their generation than the children of light.
But I say to you; Remember your brothers willingly through your diligent giving of your tithes and offerings from the riches of this world, so that when the end comes, you will be received into Yahweh Shammah.
He who is faithful in that which is least, is faithful also in much; and who is unjust in the least, is also unjust in much.
Therefore, if you have not been faithful in unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
And if you have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who will give you that which is your own?
No servant can serve two rulers; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both Yahweh and mammon.
Now the Pharisees, who were also lovers of money, heard all these things; and they sneered at Him.
But [Yahshua] said to [the Pharisees]: You are those who justify yourselves before men but Yahweh knows your heart, for that which is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of Yahweh.
Luke 16:9 in the KJV is rendered:
And I {Yahshua} say to you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.
If this has been adequately discussed elsewhere on the Ecclesia Forum when we were not monitoring it...please direct us to that page so that it will not be necessary to restate statements that have previosly been made concerning this.
We would like to have a better understanding of this so that we can make the appropriate adjustments in our lives if any should be made.
Thank you and others for your help with this.
Best Regards,
Marty |
|
|
|
BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 17:56:17
|
quote:
Marty said: Steven,
Do we in fact "join THEM in their SCHEME if we use federal reserve notes"?
Yes we do. Consider these points:
1. We give life to the FICTION when we use them. FRN's are not backed by gold as you already know. Per the FED RES LAWYERS they are backed by contracts (SS#'s, land holdings, etc), promises to pay (credit) and faith in the US SYSTEM. All of this equals spend-a-ability .
2. We pay TAX which gives life to the SYSTEM when we go to the CORPS. Example, check out how much TAX is attached to gas not to mention CORP profit.
3. We choose willfully to use "THEIR" private SCRIP and enjoy the benefit of their buying power. Instead of doing for ourselves, the FRN enables us to buy things like food, clothing, etc from the CONSUMER CORPS. Plus, some CONTRACTS demand we pay in FRN's... like INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDER agreements.
4. Every day the FRN is valued and devalued soley on the objective of the US CORP who issues them. A loaf of bread might cost more or less on any given day depending on the FED's regulation. So much for equal weights and measures.
5. By using the same line of thinking to argue that the SS# is the mark of the beast, one can also argue SCRIP also fit’s the description. You can buy and sell easily w/o a SS#, no problem. It’s very hard to buy and sell without SCRIP.
As for your request of my opinion concerning the verses you posted:
"Then the ruler commended the dishonest manager for having looked to his own interests. For the children of this world are wiser in dealing with their generation than the children of light."
From what you have posted it seems to say the ruler respected the manager who cheated him because the ruler also looks out for his own interests first. The second sentence is self explanitory.
But I say to you; Remember your brothers willingly through your diligent giving of your tithes and offerings from the riches of this world, so that when the end comes, you will be received into Yahweh Shammah.
He who is faithful in that which is least, is faithful also in much; and who is unjust in the least, is also unjust in much.
To my knowledge there was no FICTIONAL fiat money as the main currency back then so when I read riches I am thinking of things with real value.
No servant can serve two rulers; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both Yahweh and mammon.
This could be the kicker to back up my concept. If we know what backs up an FRN and we know the game the US CORP is playing by issuing them and gathering TAX from them, then how can we say that we don't benefit from their scheme? If we don't circulate FRN's but instead make or grow for ourselves the things FRNs buy, then this hurts the SYSTEM in many ways. If we use the FRN and the CORPS who sell the CONSUMER GOODS, then this helps the ECONOMY, helps generate TAX INCOME, helps the CORPS make a profit, etc. Let me always be the first to proclaim my guilt in all of this. The solution would be people forming self-sustaning communities but, from my limited pursuits, conflicting Biblical understandings destroys the seed before it even grows. Splinters within splinters...That and too many chiefs and not enough indians.
Now the Pharisees, who were also lovers of money, heard all these things; and they sneered at Him.
But [Yahshua] said to [the Pharisees]: You are those who justify yourselves before men but Yahweh knows your heart, for that which is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of Yahweh.
This is self-explanatory.
Luke 16:9 in the KJV is rendered:
And I {Yahshua} say to you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.
I read this as, “make friends with those who engage in the mammon of unrighteousness men so they can bail you out when you fail”. Notice it does not tell us to become friends of the mammon of unrighteousness ourselves, only to make friends with those who are. Would the FRN scheme be considered mammon of unrighteousness? Yes and the FRN could also qualify as the sorcery of the merchants.
Marty said:
quote:
Steve,
Please correct us if we are inferring something different than what you are intentionally implying or rationalizing by your statements above and related statements in other posts by you...
It seems to us that you are saying that just because one is participating in the "Babylonian system" in any degree...he or she may as well participate to a greater degree.........in for a penny ...in for a pound, can't be only a little pregnant.
No, I am not saying one should participate to a greater degree. I am saying if one uses the FRN, then one is using the SYSTEM, it’s arbitrary ECONOMY and it’s CORP’s which helps strengthen the same. The idea is in the same line of thinking as, “if you break the least, you break them all”. I personally look at the bottom line of the matter. Do I feed, cloth and shelter my family by having to work for FRN's? Yes.
quote:
Questions:
1. In which way will a man or woman be promoting and aiding and abetting an unholy system to a greater degree:
a.)if he or she receives federal reserve notes and exchanges them for groceries.
b.)if he or she receives federal reserve notes, deposits them in a bank that is participating in the federal reserve system so that those funds can promote the usury system in true Israyl and then withdraws some from time to time to exchange for groceries.
I’d say C. Both actions help the SYSTEM’s ECONOMY by generating profit for the CORPS and TAX INCOME by making the FRN their #1 tool for getting even the most basic needs. Food, power, gas, etc.
quote:
2. Is it important to either be totally out of the Babylonian System...or would you say if one is participating in any way he or she would be no worse off if they were participating in and promoting the Babylonian System to a very significant degree?
I think the real goal is not having a need at all for the SYSTEM. The one who is worse off is the one who is eating CORP produced food by ENTITIES who, for the sake of low production cost, use ingredients which are harmful to us (not to mention Biblically unclean). The one worse off is the one who pays into the POWER RACKET because technology is suppressed. The only way to beat this would be to have kind of a regathring of the tribes who agreed to only trade with each other. The Bible says the Israelites will be regathered back to the promised land after the destruction of the 4th Kingdom so maybe this type of thing will happen then.
quote:
These are issues we are working through ourselves. We welcome any input and/or guidance that you or others in the Ecclesia can give us in this regard.
I have been racking my mind and even spirit over this problem for quite a while. Wouldn’t it be ironic if the curse of Adam, to till the ground with the sweat of his brow, is the very thing that could save us in this day and age? A curse that turned into a blessing. I think of the current 4th Kingdom as such also. It’s a curse but, somehow, there will be a blessing from all of THEIR doings. Even the story of the patriarchs holds this same pattern. Especially Judah.
quote:
If there is any hypocrisy in our walk and in our service for Yahweh's Kingdom purposes it is certainly appropriate for you to point that out to us and expose it to us and perhaps to others
You have made no claims about your walk so I’ll pass on assuming to know your rendering of each point of Law and theology, etc.. I am only sharing some of my POV at this moment concerning the FRN and my studies regarding it. I am not even asking you to agree with me. Not required.
Peace,
Steve
|
|
|
|
BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2005 : 20:40:49
|
Greetings,
It seems I missed this post addressed to me:
quote:
brother Robert: So, rather than answer to the statement, we seek instead to discredit the speaker's credibility. Where have we seen this type of subterfuge before? Oh yes, we remember, from the government you apparently defend as being "ordained by Yahowah".
Steve: I also said that David was a man after YHWH's own heart regardless of his being a temporary traitor. You must not have liked that line but instead focused on the first half of my sentence.
quote:
brother Robert: And you are still clinging desperately to the misconception that if an embassador uses foreign currency and pays sales tax while doing his Master's work in a foreign nation that he has committed High Treason against his Master [President or whatever!] and should be executed? The world would soon be out of embassadors!
Steve: Please show me where I said that somebody should be executed. You are plainly misrepresenting me. Why?
quote:
brother Robert: And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Was Yahowshua a traitor to his King for giving these orders?
Steve: The currency in Yahowshua's time was not DEBT NOTES. You like to proclaim that the SS# is the mark of the beast. I can show you that the FRN qualifies as the MARK even more than the SS#. We can buy and sell just fine without an SS#. It is very difficult to 'buy and sell' with out FICTIONAL SCRIP. p.s. - as you know bartering is not buying and selling. This is why I keep bringing up the FRN.
Peace,
Steve
|
Edited by - BatKol on 03 Jan 2005 22:37:39 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
His name is not Yahushua
