ECCLESIASTIC COMMONWEALTH COMMUNITY
ECCLESIASTIC COMMONWEALTH COMMUNITY
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 The Roman World
 Statute Law
 Taxes
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 10

Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2003 :  12:37:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Loy,

Some interesting thoughts. I don't know about the paying in gold, but I do know, that if you try to pay your taxes in cash FRNs they will not accept those. They want a check, which is just numbers, which allows them to move more numbers.

Also, in going to court, we have recently learned, that if you answer "I am the person called and further say I not!" and actually manage to keep your mouth shut, they can not proceed. This is the essence of what Randy Lee has done. All along we have been thinking that it was because he removed himself from their jurisdiction. No, it was because he refused to argue and create a controversy. Only if there is a controversy can they proceed.

But, you had better be able to keep you mouth completely shut until you are out of the room. And preferably, you want to wait for the Judge and Prosecuter to leave first. Maxim in law - - He who leaves the battlefield first loses.

It works. Try it.

Lewis
Go to Top of Page

Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2003 :  14:53:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Loy wrote:
quote:
The local IRS office is not equipped to accept Lawful money since it, like us, is of an incompatible legal attitude from the laws that they enforce. Government agencies operating under a colorable jurisdiction cannot deal with anything real. If you attempt to make lawful payment (gold or silver) and the IRS refuses to accept it, then the debt has been legally and Lawfully nullified. Truth is also real; does it set you free? Indeed it does, because Caesar can have no part of it.



They are not equipped to accept lawful money, but if you ask IRS what kind of money they want they would ignore you.

I've often wondered what a mortgage lender would say if you offered gold or silver coin in down payment for a house. Could they ask for FRNs instead? Could they tell you you had to convert those coins into FRNs? What would they tell you?
Go to Top of Page

Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2003 :  15:56:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Government agencies operating under a colorable jurisdiction cannot deal with anything real. If you attempt to make lawful payment (gold or silver) and the IRS refuses to accept it, then the debt has been legally and lawfully nullified


This has got me curious. I'm wondering what would happen if I sent the tax agencies a couple of silver coins and told them to put it toward payment of the amount due...how would they respond to that?

I think I might try it.

Edited by - Livefree on 29 May 2003 15:57:27
Go to Top of Page

Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2003 :  21:31:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings: I have a problem with... Randy Lee said, "I am that PERSON". Maybe someOne should check the source, which is open to the public and see his words for themselves. To admit being an ALL CAP fiction is very dangerous. I believe Randy Lee and others say just the opposite!
Go to Top of Page

DanielJacob
Advanced Member

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2003 :  23:24:16  Show Profile  Visit DanielJacob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Actually brothers, Randy himself has stated since that it wasn't so much the spelling of the name as it was that he stated that he was not a resident of the judicial district. He still doesn't answer to the ALL CAPS name but simply states and I am paraphrasing "My name doesn't appear on your purported process." Further, Randy only went to court because he wanted to test his theory, at that time, of open abatement of the process. He would never voluntarily go to court now.

Hope that helps.

Edited by - DanielJacob on 29 May 2003 23:26:14
Go to Top of Page

Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 30 May 2003 :  01:15:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi All,

As I posted earlier today, what we have since learned is that the major strength in what Randy-Lee did, was he answered who he was and refused to say anything more. They can't proceed if there is no controversy. He gave them no controversy to operate on. Thus, the matter was closed. We have seen this work in a number of significant cases in the last few months.

Lewis
Go to Top of Page

doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 30 May 2003 :  03:24:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Standing mute may work in a courtroom (I have not tried it yet, so do not know for sure) but what do you do when the Nice Tax Man comes over with a box of locks to take your business or home?

Doer
Go to Top of Page

Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 30 May 2003 :  14:27:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My reply to doer's post:

You just have to be alert that if you have a business and are in trouble with the IRS, you would be wise to start packing up because a takedown is certain to happen. Do not kid yourself. Be one step ahead of them. Also, if you know or suspect you are being watched, take heed on that too. Trust your instincts, they are probably right.

Also, if you are selling anything, teaching anybody, and have been in the movement for awhile, beware.

They are determined to stop the freedom movement this year and onward.. BEWARE..

Edited by - Livefree on 30 May 2003 14:29:15
Go to Top of Page

Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 30 May 2003 :  15:29:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi All,

Livefree may be correct. I participate in a Thursday night conference call. We received word via some friendlies in the Alphabet Soup group that their meters went off the scale, monitoring last week's call. ESCHELON was in the RED monitoring us. So, if I suddenly stop posting to this group, you will know what happened. BTW, there were about 75 callers on that conference call. And we were only talking about using remedies that are provided by Caesar's Law. I guess we scared them that we are learning how their deceit works.

Live free or die,

Lewis
Go to Top of Page

Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 30 May 2003 :  16:44:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I suspect they regularly monitor many of the illegal-tax protest yahoo groups, and that they snoop many of the Internet message boards.

I just bought some software that alerts you to potential hackers. I don't trust ANYONE anymore.
Go to Top of Page

Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 30 May 2003 :  19:11:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I know for a fact that they constantly monitor all of the Yahoo groups and most all other web groups. However, this was a conference phone call.

A very good stand-alone firewall is the best protection against hackers. I don't trust anyone, either.

Lewis
Go to Top of Page

Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 30 May 2003 :  19:24:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I started a UCC Redemption group at yahoo groups. One day I was looking at all the members email addresses and I saw that Mark Pitcavage had signed up. I knew who he was. I delete him. He has the Militia Watch Dog website:
http://www.adl.org/mwd/welcome.asp

He probably signed back up using another email address. ;-)
Go to Top of Page

loybost
Regular Member

USA
29 Posts

Posted - 31 May 2003 :  00:11:59  Show Profile  Visit loybost's Homepage  Send loybost an AOL message  Reply with Quote
Hello Lewish,

Will the IRS ignore you if you ask them how they wish to be paid? Yes, they will ignore that and so much more! Going down to the local IRS agency with tape recorder in hand and recording the fact that an IRS agent has refused lawful payment of an alleged debt will probably also be ignored both by the IRS and any judge that might hear it (should you be forced into a courtroom situation). However, from a moral standpoint you will have done the best that I know how to do.

I have offered the IRS lawful payment for the use of their commercial property. As a Christian what more can I do? I will not accept the identity of the legal fiction that they have created, but I cannot truthfully deny that I have used this legal fiction to engage in the intercourse of commerce. Regardless of my intent or desire, this is what I have done. Iíve used the s.s. card for employment, drivers license, and bank accounts etc. I have been unable thus far to refuse to use it, and therefore I must offer to pay for that privilege whether I like it or not (and I certainly donít like it). As I said before they will ignore EVERYTHING that you say. You might find a judge that agrees with you, but donít count on it. The most that I can hope for is to do what is right with the Lord. I could frankly care less what the IRS or their rump judges and kangaroo courts think.

As one that has been saved through the shed blood of Christ it is my duty to resist the beast with all that I have. It is my duty as a Christian and an American to proceed truthfully and honestly. The rest is in the hands of our Creator. I never expect to beat the IRS, my battle with them will end the day that I leave this world. I believe that God takes care of his children, so I believe that He will take care of me. If the IRS wants to step on the toes of His children then their problems will be much greater than mine. Perhaps resistance is futile, but from my vantage point it is mandatory on all fronts. For those still using a s.s. card and are looking for the silver bullet that will stop the IRS from hassling them, I donít believe it exists. Good luck my friend.

Peace and Grace,
Loy
Go to Top of Page

Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 31 May 2003 :  03:01:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Will the IRS ignore you if you ask them how they wish to be paid? Yes, they will ignore that and so much more! Going down to the local IRS agency with tape recorder in hand and recording the fact that an IRS agent has refused lawful payment of an alleged debt will probably also be ignored both by the IRS and any judge that might hear it (should you be forced into a courtroom situation). However, from a moral standpoint you will have done the best that I know how to do.


I am thinking of sending one or two silver certificates to the Franchise Tax Board here in CA, along with a note telling them to post them to my account.

I'm just curious to see if they would send them back or what. If they send them back what can I do? Take them to court Not exactly.
Go to Top of Page

Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 31 May 2003 :  12:51:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Loy,

I think the best way to deal with the IRS is in writing. Anytime they send you a request for money, send a letter back saying the amount must be asked for on a letter which is signed in a legible signature and under penalty for perjury. They never seem to respond after that.

Lewis
Go to Top of Page

Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 31 May 2003 :  17:18:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tax agencies don't have to sign under penalties of perjury because they are above the law. Everyone knows that.

From now on, when I send their notices back, I'm going to add this:

"Equality under the law is paramount and mandatory".

Which means: If I have to sign under penalties of perjury, so do you.

Thanks to Rice McLeod for that one.
Go to Top of Page

doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 03 Jun 2003 :  20:33:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Free-Man,

The above-named link goes to the WebSite of a Pennsylvania lawyer who deals in wills, "tax strategies" and "estate planning." He clearly has a vested interest in pushing the party line regarding Income Tax. Furthermore, he also advises agianst Living Trusts, saying, "Conclusion: Living trusts are good for some people, but not for everyone. Living trusts have both advantages and disadvantages, but most people don't need them and aren't helped by them." So apparently he can get a lot more money working Probates than writing Living Trusts.

My conclusion -- this is just another slime-ball lawyer beating his own drum.

Be Well,
Doer


Go to Top of Page

DanielJacob
Advanced Member

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 04 Jun 2003 :  18:59:31  Show Profile  Visit DanielJacob's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It is impossible to extinguish debt with debt. That should tell you either he doesn't know what he is talking about or as stated earlier he is just scamming like the rest. Debt can only be extinguished with "real" money, notably silver or gold. Hope that helps.
Go to Top of Page

True North
Advanced Member

USA
163 Posts

Posted - 04 Jun 2003 :  19:04:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I haven't read the part about Frn's on his sight but 'discharging' or 'extingushing' debt because Frn's are fiat and of no value? All of these semantics hide the truth and tend to make one try to 'make up his own sort of rationalizations'. Value is in production.

Off topic but related...For every conspiracy theory web page, you can find another page to refute that same conspiracy. My point is ... you can find evidence to allow you to believe or rationalise whatever you want.

Cain wasn't killed by God when he chose the path of coercion. Therefore, it is almost a given that the cities he built were based on coercion, and we get our government and present day cities ready made with that same coercion. All governments are ruled with a rod of iron by the King. Psalms 2:9, Revelation 2:27, Revelation 12:5 and Revelation 19:15. He offers an alternative government not based on coercion but serving one another.

What I produce must be traded for what you produce at a community level like you see in the book of Acts. We are going to have to 'move' into the Kingdom if we want to separate the truth from the semantics of coercion.



Go to Top of Page

Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 09 Jun 2003 :  13:31:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I pointed out to Ed Rivera's wife, Liberty, that Ed's words below (bolded underlined) sounded like he was pleading not guilty. Ed is a constitutional attorney so he will probably argue from a constitutional point of view, which could be lethal.

Ed just cannot lose this case!!

Here's part of Ed's latest newsletter and update on the injunction:

I have, therefore, decided to let the Office of the U.S. Attorney attempt to take a default in its suit, since it appears that the plaintiff, United States of America, is acting on its own behalf strictly in a territorial capacity. Also, the filed complaint wasn?t verified and it was signed by the trial attorney in the tax division. Technically, the only appearance that has been made is that of the tax attorney and that attorney has alleged nothing under oath. I have received a three-inch thick motion from the tax attorney that made not one allegation that I was selling an illegal and abusive tax shelter or that I have interfered in anyway in the collection of a federal tax. The action presents an opportunity to teach the people how the federal government operates territorially.

When I explain that the federal government is merely hoping that its territorial action will be misinterpreted as a national course, I will also explain that I have done nothing more than exercise my duty to explain the law to my clients. If there is a law that prevents me from expressing my written opinion of what the law is, that law violates the Constitution. As the only attorney with any real tax knowledge, admitted to the highest court in California, I alone am qualified to tell the people of California what the tax law is. If I haven?t been able to convince the federal government that the people of a free society are free, with all the written material that I have already provided, nothing that I submit to an administrative federal territorial court will change anyone?s mind.

The paperwork I have received from Anne Norris Graham claims the plaintiff, the United States of America, will bring its motion for default judgment on June 23, 2003. Title 48 United States Code requires that legal process is ?the United States of America? whenever the action brought is territorial. The confederation of states known as the United States of America was created by the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution vested the executive power in ?a President of the United States of America,? so a Department of Justice trial tax attorney can sign for or represent the President of the United States of America if the case is territorial. Anyway, I am not so curious as to ever show up in a federal territorial, administrative, Article I court to find out how a trial tax attorney stands in for the President.

I do not know how anyone can write, with a straight face, that the United States of America will bring its own motion for a default judgment, but anything is possible in a federal administrative court. What human guise does the United States of America really take? Do you suppose a cardboard cutout of Dubya, himself, will be there? My guess is that the district judge is the magician in the proceeding. The district judge is an officer of the United States, appointed by the President with the advice and consent of Congress, and is probably an emissary of the President of the United States of America. I have been told that someone has done research on district court judges that can resolve the riddle of how the United States of America manages to win all these cases without a United States of America corporeal presence in the courtroom. If that researcher is out there, let?s corroborate on a book about the territorial nature of the federal district courts. My take is that the United States, as a corporate form of government, claims injury and the real party in interest is the United States of America, the owner of the corporate entity.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I also emailed Liberty the following paragraphs out of Rice's redepmtion book.

The other part of the problem is with the Laws or in today's court--the lack of laws. The charge and intent are lumped together in one charge and you then cannot plead innocent-you must plead guilty, not guilty, no thereby giving the court jurisdiction. All the courts have been lumped together into one court - Administrative/Admiralty and Civil (Contract/Commercial) With the advent of your plea--you go under Administrative--any law they want to use to convict you.

Courts: The flag in court is the court's advertisement of the laws that governing their contracts. If you do not wish to contract with these courts, then jurisdiction must be challenged. In order to correctly challenge jurisdiction you must remember Girty vs. Logan, 6 Bush KY 8 which states: "It is an elementary rule of pleading, that a plea to the jurisdiction is a tacit admission that the court has a right to judge in the case and is a waiver to all exception to the jurisdiction." Which means that if you plea - you have waived your rights to challenge jurisdiction. And when the judge attempts to enter a plea for you and says that the state statutes allow him to do so, tell him NO, that he cannot practice law from the bench and that he is not your attorney and you do not give him permission to act on your behalf! Read the "Courts by Contract" section in this manual for further information.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I emailed Liberty a few weeks ago on another matter, but she did not acknowledge it, so I don't know if she will show this one to Ed or not.


Edited by - Livefree on 09 Jun 2003 14:21:51
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 10 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
ECCLESIASTIC COMMONWEALTH COMMUNITY © MMXVII Ecclesiastic Commonwealth Community Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.34 seconds. Snitz Forums 2000