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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Dec 2003 : 08:06:39
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Surveyor said:
If it is my own labor that they represent and the one accepting the FRN's is satisfied with the exchange then there is a mutual benefit. To begin with, isn't this benefit a purpose for an exchange.
BatKol: Yes, absolutely. The benefit of the FRN as a measure of TRADE is obvious. I had a candid conversation with a FED RES LAWYER and when I accused him of "creating an impossibility in Law" by issuing the FRN as currency he said flatly, "there is no law that demands you must use FRNs. You are under no obligation to use FRNS. They are voluntary!" .
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loybost
Regular Member
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2003 : 08:45:14
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Greetings,
I must agree with Brother Robert James, there is no benefit from using FED notes. To believe that a benefit exists from a currency that is created out of nothing is to believe that someone, other than YHWH (God), can create something of value out of nothing. It is true that we use this fiat currency in corporate stores and leave with more than we came with; however, a rape victim generally leaves the scene of assault with more than they came with also. I would hardly claim that a rape victim has received a benefit from this encounter.
The FED notes do not represent our labor; the intrinsic value (fruits)of our labor has been hypothecated as a deposit into the Federal Reserve Bank, the FED notes are a loan of credit with interest due; they are worth less than nothing. These FED notes, therefore, simply represent the power of the beast and our alleged indebtedness to the FED. Mattew:23:24: “Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.” Is the gnat now worth more than the camel? I think not.
In most cases we have little choice but to use the FED notes as a medium of exchange; however, to perceive this use as a benefit is not wise; more has been taken from us than has been given to us. Ye cannot serve YHWH (God) and mammon.
Peace and Grace,
Loy
Loy Robert: Bost, III |
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loybost
Regular Member
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2003 : 09:13:22
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Greetings BatKol,
It is true that there is no law requires us to offer FED notes as payment of any debt. There are laws that require us to accept these notes to discharge a debt if that is what we are offered. I recently offered the IRS Lawful payment of an alleged tax debt with Lawful gold U.S. Coinage; my offer was refused, thus negating the debt. I posted my offer, and notice of default, on the “UCC Redemption Scheme” forum on page 8. You may find it to be interesting reading.
Peace and Grace
Loy
Loy Robert: Bost, III |
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2003 : 10:43:10
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Loy, please help me understand how you did not benefit from exchanging an FRN (which we all agree is proped up by USURY and CONTRACTS)for a good or service... or benefit from getting paid with FRN's.. Plain and simple... we choose voluntarily to use FRN's knowing that their very existence is based on CONTRACTS. The more they get circulated, the stronger they become.. You and I.. we help in this... The FRN's benefit lies in it's usefulness.
I really, sincerely want to know how you don't see any benefit in using an FRN... if there was no benefit in using the FRN.. why else would you use it? I agree about the camel and the gnat statement by the way... |
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2003 : 10:49:25
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Loy said: It is true that we use this fiat currency in corporate stores and leave with more than we came with; however, a rape victim generally leaves the scene of assault with more than they came with also. I would hardly claim that a rape victim has received a benefit from this encounter.
Batkol: The difference is here that you/we voluntariy entered into the STORE with the FRN and willingly benefited from it's use. The rape victim is usually taken against their will.
Our using the FRN is a willful act. We volunteered to use it knowing full well what IT is.
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loybost
Regular Member
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2003 : 11:29:17
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Greetings BatKol,
Let me clarify what I mean by the lack of benefit of the FRN’s. First of all, the fruits of our labor have been un-Lawfully hypothecated to back these fiat notes. Secondly, one cannot Lawfully own anything that is bought with the FED notes; according to the Constitution you cannot own anything in alod without an exchange of intrinsic value, hence the property tax (rent). With rare exception, we are virtually forced to accept FRN’s to discharge (not pay) the debt incurred by an employer for the benefit of our labor. We receive these FED notes with interest due as a purported tax. Anything that we allegedly “buy” with these FED notes literally stands as collateral for the loan of the fiat currency that we have foolishly accepted in the stead of Lawful compensation for our labor. We don’t own anything that we think we have bought with these notes, the FED owns everything. I see no benefit for us in this process whatsoever.
We have accepted no lawful contract whatsoever in this purported exchange. A lawful contract requires an investment of lawful consideration by both parties. The FED claims ownership of the fruits of our labor yet invests nothing of value into the contract. Consider this example: If you have a home worth $100,000 and you buy insurance on that home, the insurance company will only insure that home for roughly $80,000. You don’t want the home destroyed because you will lose $20,000 worth of value; the insurance company doesn’t want the home to be destroyed because they will be out $80,000 less the amount paid in premiums. Both you and the insurance company have a vested interest in the longevity of that home. However, if I were to try buy insurance on your home, the insurance company would refuse to allow me to buy that insurance because I would have no vested interest in the survival of that home. It would be to my benefit if your home burned to the ground the day after I paid the first premium. The FED is suppose to insure the survival of the American economy through the regulation of the fiat FED notes; the FED has no vested interest in the survival of this economy. The best thing for the FED’s profits is for the economy to “burn to the ground”, thus they will collect the payoff without any investment. That, my friend, is an un-Lawful no interest contract in which no benefit to us is either offered or received. The benefit that you perceive is an illusion perpetuated by the corporate beast government. We must look beyond this illusion and see the Truth.
Peace and Grace,
Loy
Loy Robert: Bost, III |
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2003 : 18:20:07
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Greetings Loy,
Thanks for your detailed post. I will try to answer point by point to see if we can calibrate our thinking.
Loy:
Greetings BatKol,
Let me clarify what I mean by the lack of benefit of the FRN’s. First of all, the fruits of our labor have been un-Lawfully hypothecated to back these fiat notes.
Batkol: Yes, but we willfully choose to use them.
Secondly, one cannot Lawfully own anything that is bought with the FED notes; according to the Constitution you cannot own anything in alod without an exchange of intrinsic value, hence the property tax (rent).
Batkol: Even more of a reason why willfully choosing to trade with FRN'S might be morally questionable
With rare exception, we are virtually forced to accept FRN’s to discharge (not pay) the debt incurred by an employer for the benefit of our labor.
Batkol: It is easier to use FRNs than to seek out other methods of trade. Agreed. Still we use them because of their convenience, regardless of what we may believe.
We receive these FED notes with interest due as a purported tax.
Batkol: Interest? That is USURY. Yet we still use them regardless.
Anything that we allegedly “buy” with these FED notes literally stands as collateral for the loan of the fiat currency that we have foolishly accepted in the stead of Lawful compensation for our labor.
Batkol: Yes, foolishly and willfully. We choose to use the FRN instead of finding more "lawful" ways to trade.
We don’t own anything that we think we have bought with these notes, the FED owns everything.
Batkol: Yet we still use them instead of working harder to find lawful ways to trade. Instead, we choose to use them for their convenience
I see no benefit for us in this process whatsoever.
Batkol: Here is the benefit. They work when we know they should not.
Try going to the STORE to feed yourself using sea shells and you will see that there is no benefit in using sea shells, but there is using FRN's. Why else would we use them instead of "lawful" trading mediums? ... because they are a convenience and they spend... hence the benefit.
We have accepted no lawful contract whatsoever in this purported exchange. A lawful contract requires an investment of lawful consideration by both parties.
Batkol: No need to have any CONTRACTS to enjoy the purchasing power of the FRN.. just faith that they will spend when you take them to the STORE.
The FED claims ownership of the fruits of our labor yet invests nothing of value into the contract.
Batkol: knowing this.. why would we participate in such a scheme?
Convenience. It is a whole lot easier to go to the STORE than to find folks who will trade for food, heating gas, clothing, internet, power, etc. FRNs get us these things, not sea shells.. There is the benefit. We don't hate USURY and DEBT NOTES enough to change our lifestyles do we? We can't pay our monthly POWER CONTRACTS with sea shells. We would not be able to enjoy the benefits of electricity.
Consider this example: If you have a home worth $100,000 and you buy insurance on that home, the insurance company will only insure that home for roughly $80,000. You don’t want the home destroyed because you will lose $20,000 worth of value; the insurance company doesn’t want the home to be destroyed because they will be out $80,000 less the amount paid in premiums. Both you and the insurance company have a vested interest in the longevity of that home. However, if I were to try buy insurance on your home, the insurance company would refuse to allow me to buy that insurance because I would have no vested interest in the survival of that home. It would be to my benefit if your home burned to the ground the day after I paid the first premium. The FED is suppose to insure the survival of the American economy through the regulation of the fiat FED notes; the FED has no vested interest in the survival of this economy. The best thing for the FED’s profits is for the economy to “burn to the ground”, thus they will collect the payoff without any investment.
Batkol: Yes, not a good deal. Here is a less complicated way to see the immediate usefullness of the FRN and see it's immediate benefit.
Go to the phone company and pay your bill. You will get to enjoy the benefit of phone service for another month.
That, my friend, is an un-Lawful no interest contract in which no benefit to us is either offered or received.
Batkol: Yet for all it's ugliness, we still willfully choose to use the FRN instead of finding better ways to trade. Why? Because FRNs are easy and convenient. We look past the all of the details you so carefully posted in exchange for the immdiate benefit of the FRN's purchasing power.
The benefit that you perceive is an illusion perpetuated by the corporate beast government.
Batkol: Here I disagree. The benefit of the FRN is perpetuated by consumer faith (me and you), continued use by it's customers AND by the illusion of the CORP. We willfully choose to use the FRN because of it's use-a-bility. If they did not provide us with the benefit of purchase you or I would not be using them
We must look beyond this illusion and see the Truth.
Batkol: To look beyond would mean to hate the FRN so much as to not sully our hands with the USURY DEBT NOTE.. The Truth is we willfully choose to participate in the circulation of these FRNs regardless of what we may think about them. Let's face it... if they did not provide the benefit of purchasing power, we would not be using them.
Peace and Grace,
Loy
Peace to you as welll,
BK
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Surveyor
Regular Member
USA
31 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2003 : 19:57:31
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There is no doubt that FRN's stem from an ungodly system but it is not the use of the note by which one is bound. No one is compelled to take a share of the usury.
Legal tender laws are encumbered upon the creditor and this could not be unless the creditor is bound to the system. In this instance, the debt is fully paid from the position of such a creditor. Whether the buyer has any further obligation depends on whether his labor belonged to the powers behind the note. It is not the one that holds the note that owes the debt. The debt is ultimately the responsibility of the one that issued the note.
Clarence |
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Livefree
Advanced Member
USA
270 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2003 : 13:13:39
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Here's a quote from the book 'Money' by James Ewart.
Ask your local banker to explain the meaning of the eleven-word mishmash given above (This Note is Legal Tender For All Debts Public And Private). She will probably say, "Well, legal-tender is what you gotta take if it's offered to you, you know, in payment for something. If you want to buy groceries, the storekeeper's gotta take these Federal Reserve Notes. It's the law. Federal Reserve Notes are legal-tender and legal tender's what's gotta be accepted or else you waive yoour right to get paid. That's why they're called legal-tender notes. Anybody that doesn't like paper money is a nut."
Such limited understanding is epidemic in the United States today, as you are already aware. This hypothetical banker, supposedly an expert in her industry, is blind to the fact that pieces of paper to which she refers are 'not' notes. Some bankers and other professionals have been blind or silent about this and other critically important matters for years. Happily however, those who might persist in perpetuating such 'myths', after exposure to this book, could find themselves in serious legal jeopardy."
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James Ewart's book, Money, is really an eye-opener. I highly recommend it for beginners, advanced, and/or anyone who presumes to be an expert money. I'm NOT going to send my creditors next month any FRNs, but another instrument to pay the balance in full. After reading James' book I'm fully equipt to handle ANY retailiation.
I'm still looking for the reason why IRS or state tax authorities cannot specifically ask for FRNs. I'll assume for now that it's because they KNOW Federal Reserve Notes are not money.
I have never heard anyone say, "Do not send FRNs". They'll say: Do not send "cash". I assume they use the word "cash" because "Federal Reserve Notes" is too long.
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Edited by - Livefree on 20 Dec 2003 13:17:23 |
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2003 : 18:12:24
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Surveyor: There is no doubt that FRN's stem from an ungodly system but it is not the use of the note by which one is bound. No one is compelled to take a share of the usury.
BatKol: Agreed. You do not have to be bound to enjoy the benefit of the mysterious FRN. It works when it should not. It is all of the terrible things listed on these posts, yet we still use them instead of acting in the way described in the Bible. We do not take a share of the USURY, we are just benefiting from the USURY that backs up the FRN. Anybody who is not willing to admit they benefit from the spend-a-bility of an FRN when they go to the STORE or pay RENT, or POWER, etc. is just kidding themselves. Regardless of our 'moral opinions' nobody hates the FRN enough to refuse them and demand "Lawful" business. We choose the convenience of the FRN over the ugly fact that we help perpetuate it's existence by using them. That is why I laught at these self-appointed priests. |
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PopeSquasher
Senior Member
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2003 : 18:29:04
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I haven't read this whole thread, so forgive me if I am unwittingly uttering what someone may've already posted...
But it seems to me, that the severest evil of the FRN is being overlooked- that evil being the political system that makes the "earning" and spending (buying and selling?) a "necessity" of life.
i.e. They impose property taxes, so that one can not even own a peice of property, but must continuously pay rent to the government in FRNs. So, just the mere owning of a peice of property necessitates that one become a trader in FRN's.
Just another reason why believers should flee this system, and this country (USA)while there is still a place or two to flee to.
"Thy Word is Truth" |
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Livefree
Advanced Member
USA
270 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2003 : 19:00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by BatKol
BatKol: We choose the convenience of the FRN over the ugly fact that we help perpetuate it's existence by using them. That is why I laught at these self-appointed priests.
I don't choose the convenience of the FRn over gold. Retailers are not set up to accept gold and silver. For one thing, you'd have to give them the exact amount, because they have no silver or gold change to give you. On top of that, they don't know how much your silver coins are worth, as the price of each coin can vary, depending on the year, the grade, etc. We are not set up to recieve it, yet.
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2003 : 19:16:16
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Livefree: I don't choose the convenience of the FRn over gold. Retailers are not set up to accept gold and silver.
BatKol: Ah, but you/we do. You/we choose the convenience of using the FRN instead of finding "Lawful" trading partners. If we really disliked all things CORP we would refuse to
go to them. We should not be willing to "sully" our hands by lowering ourselves to accept their
terms. But we do.
Popesquasher: But it seems to me, that the severest evil of the FRN is being overlooked- that evil being the political system that makes the "earning" and spending (buying and selling?) a "necessity" of life.
BatKol: Exactly. When the price is paid, a sale is made. However, it is easier and more convenient to put a price on things and create a simple work/hire CONTRACT, (be it verbal or written) and accept FRN's. What gets me are those who claim to be "out of the system' yet still go out and bid on jobs, give estimates, etc. These guys are as laughable as the ones who maintain a monthly POWER CONTRACT and claim that they are not RESIDENTS... They should read that CONTRACT they are paying on each month. I have seen some good men turn into arch hypocrites preaching NO CAPS, NO CONTRACTS while enjoying the benefits of maintaining various CONTRACTS. Ever read the language of the DEPT OF DEFENSE INTERNET CONTRACT that get's paid each month?
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2003 : 19:26:50
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Popesquasher: But it seems to me, that the severest evil of the FRN is being overlooked- that evil being the political system that makes the "earning" and spending (buying and selling?) a "necessity" of life.
BatKol: Yes, very much in our right hand and forehead, no? We buy/sell labour and measure in FRN FICTION. Willingly and with full knowledge of how it all works. Especially we on this list who know the details..... yet still "do business" with the CORPS on their terms (FRN, SALES TAX, FLUX PRICING, ETC). Of this I publicly admit to.
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Livefree
Advanced Member
USA
270 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2003 : 19:38:13
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BatKol: Ah, but you/we do. You/we choose the convenience of using the FRN instead of finding "Lawful" trading partners. If we really disliked all things CORP we would refuse to go to them. We should not be willing to "sully" our hands by lowering ourselves to accept their
terms. But we do."
So instead of buying milk and potatoes at the grocery store, I should go find a "Lawful" trading partner? I'd be starved by the time I got my milk and potatoes. So be it, Batkol.
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2003 : 20:27:46
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Livefree: So instead of buying milk and potatoes at the grocery store, I should go find a "Lawful" trading partner? I'd be starved by the time I got my milk and potatoes. So be it, Batkol.
BatKol: Exactly. That is the whole point. Because of we don't have "Lawful" trade, we have the FRN (which we may not be able to buy or sell without) in our right hand (chief tool) and forehead (gotta work for FRNs because the CORP only accepts FRNs). We all willfully have (and benefit from) these FRN 'MARKS'. I don't want you to starve! I was just making a point to illustrate how the FRN, regardless of it's FRAUD, is our #1 tool which we MAY not be able to buy or sell with out.
NAME and NUMBER, in context, would be CREDIT/BANK CARD. |
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PopeSquasher
Senior Member
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2003 : 22:00:57
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BatKol,
Very perceptive! The biggest problem in this world (economically speaking) is that people have accepted the communist/slave mentality of trading ones time and labor for FRN's as a means of liveliehood, rather than relying upon "increase" given by God, by working with His creation and or adding value.
The Amish are probably the only major group who come close to living the ideals we speak of. Although they will deal in FRN's, they avoid things like electricity, just to avoid the constraints of the unholy contract.
It greives me that so many among us, instead of foregoing electricity and convenience like the Amish, in order to live righteously- instead, play around with all these concepts of capitol letters, etc. and, as you said, keep right on living within the confines of the system and its' unrighteous requirements.
Lest I sound more righteous than I am, I have to admit that I am not fully out of this system yet- I still have electricity and county water, etc.- but I am headed in the right direction. I left New York City for a very rural locale where I have land- but I dont think I will able to be fully free until I live this country. (I don't think my "salvation" will come by changing the appearence of my name on a contract- but rather, by not having to live in such a society of compulsion where I must live under such contracts. If I have to forego something as mundane as electricity for this freedom, so be it! No big deal!)
I am comforted to see that there are some people here who have a realistic and upstanding veiw of these things (as you do)- as whatever good is done to make people recognize the evils of this current system, is often mitigated by these people who believe that it's just a matter of capitol letters! LOL!
Be well,
Rich
"Thy Word is Truth" |
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2003 : 08:15:39
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Rich said: Lest I sound more righteous than I am, I have to admit that I am not fully out of this system yet- I still have electricity and county water, etc.- but I am headed in the right direction.
BatKol: Part of the "realization" of what THE SYSTEM is, is understanding how we willfully choose to depend on "IT" and then being honest about it. If one really dispises THE SYSTEM then one is Free pursue living without it, complete with all of the Duties and Trials that come with it. Very simple. One can not claim to have no CONTRACTS on one side of their mouth, while from the other side going down each month to the CORP FRANCHISE and renewing the CONTRACT. Can't stand USURY? Then stop trafficking DEBT NOTES and there will be one less contributor. Usually you will find that these type of hypocritcal people are the ones calling themselves priests (high, melchezidek, what-have-you) and pratteling on about 'The Way'. Pratteling on via an INTERNET CONTRACT with an ISP AGENCY of the DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE.. (and that computer powered by the STATE ELECTRIC FRANCHISE.. all paid for with FRN's).. If you have loved ones carrying on this 'way' it can be very embarrassing as you watch them live in delusion proclaiming to 'every living creature' how they have NO CONTRACTS or MARKS. This type of delusion destroys Families.
I do hope you reach you goal Rich.
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2003 : 08:52:24
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I want to clairfy this so it won't get twisted:
"Can't stand USURY? Then stop trafficking DEBT NOTES and there will be one less contributor."
What I mean about one less contributor is NOT that one is taking out a loan when using an FRN, rather one is perpetuating the FRN SCHEME by trading on it's NATURE (especially when one uses it as a measure when they sell their labour (or buy it with helpers, employees, etc). The FRN is the sum-total of all of the CORP'S USURUS ACTIVITIES. A token MARK of the CORP's accomplishments. |
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PopeSquasher
Senior Member
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2003 : 11:05:33
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BatKol,
Thank you so much for the encouraging words!
The further away I get from the Babylonian system, the better my life is, and the closer I draw near to God, depending on Him and His creation, rather than man and mans system. Gods' way is so much better and more pleasant and less constraining!
When we realize what is really being accomplished with FRN's, we see that we have no advantage in them (even if we were looking for advantage, and didn't care about unjust usury), but rather, we are valuing our labor in a commodity that steadily loses value.
Getting rid of the automobile has always been high on my list of priorities. Never mind the state contracts of licenses and registration, and the compulsory insurance (which are all bad enough, and keep one a servant to those FRN's)- but in the automobile is an investment again, in something that is losing value steadily, and must be maintained and replaced only by trading in FRN's- not to mention needing a constant supply of petroleum distilate- which industry is the backbone of Babylons economy.
Again, Gods way is better- transportation via animals, which can reproduce and keep you supplied with a transportation product forever, with reliance on no outside support. A means of transport whose fuel can be grown and entirely produced at home, and creates no pollution, but rather, helps build the soil. (Another reasonto leave the US- who can utilize the roadways with animals where trucks are speeding by at 70 MPH?)
There are some that think they have the system beat if they can drive without the states stamp of approval (license)- but, IMHO, having a license is the least of the evils associated with driving.
Yes- this is the kind of stuff that drives families apart- but that is O-K, as the rejection of their religious feasts (Xmas, etc.)and other illicit practices forces all followers of Yahushua to be seperate and apart from all in the world. Are we willing to give up all for Him?
Hehe...my family sees nothing wrong with making any kind of contract for any reason or convenience- and are even willing to trade all of their rights for such "priveleges". Many of them receive more from the socialist state than they pay in in taxes, and could care less that they are spoiling their neighbors. They are willing participants in the redistribution of wealth. And sadly, even the relatives who pay in more than the value of anything that they receive, are just as strong adherents of such a system, not minding being despoiled, and perpetuating the system that despoils their neighbors as well, by compulsion.
Rich
"Thy Word is Truth" |
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Mark of beast - 666 - Revelation 13:15-18
