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 reclaiming American citizenship
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sovprog
Regular Member

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 29 Jul 2003 :  03:49:27  Show Profile
Hello Everyone,

I'm new to this forum and hope that you can help me in the citizenship area.

If you wouldn't mind helping me to get to the bottom of a few burning questions, I would truly and greatly appreciate it.

Here's the situation. I've been researching Citizenship information online and that led me down the path to expatriation and repatriation. However, here's my situation.

I was born outside the USA, immigrated to the USA as a child, and my
parents became naturalized here after several years. Therefore, I was
automatically naturalized as well.

The questions are as follows:

1) Am I a federal citizen? I think yes according to the 14th Amendment.

2) If I am a federal citizen, can/should I expatriate and renounce my
federal citizenship? Some research data say NO and that you should "claim and clarify the citizenship of his birthright". This can be found at http://www.wealth4freedom.com/truth/Expatriation.htm

3) If I renounce my federal citizenship, can I repatriate and become
a Citizen of the state where I now reside? How does one do that?


Your guidance and wisdom is sincerely appreciated. I look forward to
any response that can guide me further in my quest for freedom.

Regards,

HL

doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 30 Jul 2003 :  17:35:52  Show Profile
Sovprog,

There is no need to formally "renounce" your citizenship. I, too, am "naturalized." All you need to do is take back control of your NAME, which the PRIVATE CORPORATE UNITED STATES is using to enslave you by deception.

"Expatriation" should more correctly be "Redemption." That begins FIRST with Spiritual Redemption. Only then, can the legal and physical redemption be successful. It is spelled out fairly well in this Forum under these topics --
http://ecclesia.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=56
http://ecclesia.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30
http://ecclesia.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=117
http://ecclesia.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46

Also visit --
http://www.freedomdomain.com/redemption1.html
http://www.freedomdomain.com/redemption/q&a.html
http://freedomnews.com/

By the way, I have heard bad things about "THE AWARE GROUP."

Be Well,
Doer
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sovprog
Regular Member

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2003 :  11:22:33  Show Profile
I have read that during the Redemption process, when taking back you name by filing a UCC-1 Financing Statement, you should list the hospital name where you were born as the address for the DEBTOR(strawman).

What if you weren't born in this country(usA) but were naturalized as a citizen? Should you still list the foreign hospital or should you just put the current "home" address where the strawman mail correspondences are being sent?

Anyone?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2003 :  17:49:45  Show Profile
Hi sovprog,

For the DEBTOR you list the address where you were living when you became a naturalized citizen.

Your UCC-1 filing should be sent to:
Government of the District of Columbia
441 4th Street, NW, Washington, DC 20001

City-Wide Call Center: (202) 727-1000 if you want to call with any questions.

Lewis
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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2003 :  19:08:08  Show Profile
Greetings One and all. Am I mistaken here, in that the U.C.C. redemption is concerned with the first birth only? Time to read John ch. 3? The second birth is the only one to be concerned with! When that happens, One has been redeemed, past tense. Tis a misnomer to claim American citizenship. We are to be citizens of the Commonwealth of Israel. am-eriy-can happens to be three hebrew words: Strongs concordance, #'s 5971, 6179, and 3547. My People-Watchful {eyes opened} officiating as priests. The prophets declared that YaHuWeH would call His People by another name, surely one can't believe it was the word "christian", which has for its root, cretin! Now, I will say,the citizens of the Commonwealth of regathered Israel, are indeed, americans, all liars are outside the gates. {Columbuss' navigator, was named at birth...ALBERIGO VESPUCCI}. Law and tradition does not allow for a commoners "first" name to be used to name new territory.
AnyOne born into the Kingdom...is greater than John the baptiser!
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sovprog
Regular Member

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 01 Aug 2003 :  20:20:23  Show Profile
Lewish,

For UCC-1 filings, what if someone had also changed their name since their childhood naturalization? Which DEBTOR name would you put in place?

In other words, as a child the name was JOHN Q DOE, but now the name is JACK Q DOE. Which one of these names would you use as the DEBTOR name for filing? Or do you use both and/or file separate docs?

Thanks Lewish for your insight.
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2003 :  00:59:42  Show Profile
Hi sovprog,

Was the name changed by a court of Law? Was the name changed on the SS acounting? Those are the determining factors. If the answer is yes, then you use the later name. If the two do not agree, then that dis-agreement must be corrected before filing the UCC-1 forms.

Peace to all,

Lewis
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2003 :  01:07:17  Show Profile
Robert-James,

Is the following incorrect?

Amerigo Vespucci

A famous Italian navigator, born at Florence, 9 March, 1451; died at Seville, 22 February, 1512; he was the third son of Ser Nastagio, a notary of Florence, son of Amerigo Vespucci. His mother was Lisabetta, daughter of Ser Giovanni, son of Ser Andrea Mini; her mother was Maria, daughter of Simone, son of Francesco di Filicaia. The date of Vespucci's birth, formerly much discussed, is now definitively established by the books of the Ufficio delle Tratte, preserved in the Reale Archivio di Stato of Florence, where the following passage is found: "Amerigo, son of Ser Nastagio, son of Ser Amerigo Vespucci, on the IX day of March MCCCCLI" (1452, common style). The mother of Amerigo's father was Nanna, daughter of Mestro Michele, of the Onesti of Pescia, and sister of Mestro Michele, the father of Nicolè and of Francesco, who resided in the magistrato supremo of the Priors in the Republic of Florence.

Vespucci was born in 1454 in Florence, where he was baptized, according to the official record, "Amerigho [not, as Carew asserts, Alberigo] Vespucci"; the use of the form Amerigho for Amerigo is an instance of the orthographic anarchy that existed in the spelling of proper names. The name Amerigo derives from an old Gothic name, Amalrich.

Edited by - Lewish on 02 Aug 2003 01:10:47
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sovprog
Regular Member

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 02 Aug 2003 :  11:27:46  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Lewish

Hi sovprog,

Was the name changed by a court of Law? Was the name changed on the SS acounting? Those are the determining factors. If the answer is yes, then you use the later name. If the two do not agree, then that dis-agreement must be corrected before filing the UCC-1 forms.

Peace to all,

Lewis



What do you mean by a court of Law? Here's the process for name change that I know of:

1) File name change documents in the Superior Court of (whatever county)
2) Publish in local newspaper announcement of name change for 4 weeks
3) Receive a court date to appear to swear in
4) Change all identification documents accordingly. Documents include the following:
a) Social Security card
b) State driver's license
c) U.S. Passport
d) credit card companies
e) bank accounts
f) IRS and FTB were also notified when tax returns were submitted
g) all other miscellaneous usage accounts(utility, water, etc.)

As for the IRS and Franchise Tax Board, the new name was used in the filing of taxes along with a separte statement that the name was officially and legally changed.

Hope this additional information helps in determining what else can be unravelled. Thanks for your assistance.


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Enoch
Regular Member

USA
32 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2003 :  05:48:01  Show Profile
Since you are talking about citizenship here, I'd like to share my experience today.
For the first time, I feel like an American. I too am naturalized US Citizen, btw. And I do know the difference between being an American and an US Citizen. Creatures differ as day and night. Nevertheless, inside me, I became an American.
Here's what happened:

My wife and I were entering a local co-op store and there sat a petitioner for anti-prop13 (California). I stopped to see what it is all about since it mentioned the need to impose more taxes on California corporations. The propaganda is that government services are being cut because corporations are not paying enough property taxes because of prop13 which limits property taxes from increasing more than 1 percent per year (imagine the Bay Area.. thank goodness we have prop 13 or people would be forced to sell homes to pay that tax). As he was listing out programs being cut such as Meals on Wheels, schools, libraries, trauma center and on and on, I mentioned that I don't really care about welfare programs. Since he has no concept of what "welfare" means, he took it as a personal attack to him because he is black. Suddenly he stood up and asked me "are you Japanese?" I said "No, what does it have to do with anything."
He replied "I know Japanese here do not like Blacks and automatically assumes that we are on welfare."
I said "No, I am an American."
He said "Are you of Japanese descent?"
I said "What does it matter?"
He said "Because Japanese do not like Blacks here in Sacramento. It is not like the Bay Area, I think people here in Sacramento go to school to dislike Blacks - especially Japanese. So you see that I am black you automatically mentioned welfare. Are you saying Wheels on Meals is welfare? Are you saying if you are hurt you don't want the trauma center to help you? Why do you mention welfare? Are you saying the indigents do not need help?"
He then starts to shout at others passing by "listen to this guy, he believes that we should not help the idigents!"
He continues "You are not going to Heaven" (I think I'll let God be the judge of that.)
Of course, once you get someone blabbing racial remarks (notice I didn't say racial issues) there is no stopping him.
I told him to let me finish my words and he eventually yielded a bit.
I said "I do believe helping others is important. But I do not believe that it is a function of the government. If you decide to feed the elderly and organize and mobilize the neighborhood, I will honor you and join you. However, I believe it is not the function of the Government. In fact, I think we should just get rid of most taxes."
Of course, his answer was typical "well, do you not support the infrastructure?"
At that time, a lady passed by and answered him "the roads and other infrastructures are paid by taxes we pay at the gas stations."
She asked who is paying him to do this, Republicans? Democrats? He said no to both and it turns out to be some lady she had also worked for and not gotten paid so they went off to talk about it leaving me to rejoin the shopping.

I did mention the inappropriate remarks to the store clerk just wondering if permission is needed to be on their premiss (heck, if not, I'd start my own petitioning there). I didn't mean to have her kick him out but she did anyway. As I walked out seeing him blabbing about race again with her (poor girl) I stopped by and added some futile words but he was not listening. The clerk asked him to listen when I am talking. Quickly I said what I came to say "I know we have different opinions, but I just want to shake your hand because I do honor your difference." He said he will do that and shook my hand. To my surprise though, he still have not given up in finding out my past nationality. He persisted "You are Japanese aren't you? Japanese here in Sacramento wouldn't have anything to do with Blacks." Given this is going no where regarding Prop 13 (hey, this sounds like a real political debate - never relates to the issue), I told him repeatedly as he repeatedly told me that I must be Japanese (gee thanks for letting me know. I was wondering what I was) that "I am an American, I am an American, I am an American and you best remember that."
By the way, he did mention that they are going to make the anti-prop 13 proposition a Constitutional Ammendment. Wow! :) 'nough said.

Wow, what powerful words they are to say that I am an American. Suddenly this country actually means something more than before. Before this I couldn't wait to find some island nation with a better government and then expatriate to it. (that was a futile search, by the way. But I might settle for Oregon.)


You may be wondering why I waste my spit with paid petioners. I tend to walk up to them and see if they know what they are petioning for. For example, I found most don't know why they want to "Recall Gray Daivs" and most don't know what the alternative would be or what is the real solution. I talk to them because I know they'd try to railroad me off the main issue to prove their point (or non-point). And it is important for me to learn to not get caught up in that conversation. I figure this is an important skill to have if I should need to talk to Caesar's agents. I've had to talk to some and got railroaded a few times - not the best time to practice. I am learning to stick to the pricipal and premise. And I certainly don't want to practice then should I one day need to ask, "Your honor, do you have a claim against me?"

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Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2003 :  19:07:52  Show Profile
Greetings In the name of Jesus, The Christ.

Enoch,
It is certainly true that most of the times one is dealing with the "bucket brigades" and others brainwashed by them, along with the mainstream media, that FALSE ARGUMENTS come forth out of their tongues
as a "learned behavior." Some call it an aristotelian false argument, which often is followed, as in your case with the "petition gatherer"
with ad-hominem attacks, which simply validates the extent of their indoctrination and their attorn-ey like dishonesties.

A Dios,
Manuel
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