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Manuel
Advanced Member
USA
762 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jul 2005 : 14:19:15
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Greetings Robert, David, I. Scriabin, and all on this hot summer day,
Hey Robert, you think a "hot curling iron on the tongues" causes the deceptive ones to babble? I think so because I hear them talking heads turning into MAX-HEADROOMS... ECHO...ECHO... echo... echo... :) I think that happens when they start running out of script and the frames-freeze-up and start skipping. Maybe that has to do with the "kangaroo courts" also, a boomberang effect. Gitty-Up-Mob, left-right-left, and STAY OFF THE NARROW PATH.
Best to all and your love ones during these hot times, not cold nor lukewarm,
Manuel
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Edited by - Manuel on 17 Jul 2005 14:20:38 |
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David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2005 : 15:27:31
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Gerard Gertoux explains on page 89 that the Name fell out of common usage at the destruction of the Temple; about 586 BC.
quote:
The biblical account of the events which occurred before and after the destruction of the First Temple helps us to understand the process of the progressive disappearance of the Name.Indeed, some years before 600 BCE, Pharaoh Necho defeated King Josiah then established Eliakim (God will rais up) as vassal and perhaps as provocation, changed his name to Jehoiakim (Yeho will raise up). This proves that Necho knew the great name of the God of the Hebrews (2K 23:34).
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Edited by - David Merrill on 17 Jul 2005 15:28:51 |
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David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2005 : 11:19:28
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Dear OneIsraelite;
I took a look at your citation chapter;
quote:
Anyone wishing to read this chapter in its entirety may go here http://www.yahweh.org/publications/sny/sn09Chap.pdf
And we find in conclusion of the chapter the author says the Name is pronounced Yahuweh. In closing in on that conclusion however he quotes Encyclopedia Judaica, the Jewish Encyclopedia and two or three other authorities, all of which say differently. None of his final quotations support his theory!
The closest is the admission that Yehu is the final syllable in many Jewish names. Very true but it is never used in a thoephoric prefix!
From Encyclopedia Judaica at NAME: www.ecclesia.org/forum/images/suitors/Yehudah.jpg
The premise the author uses, that the scribes somewhere in the past hid "Yehu" with "Yeho" is bogus; unless of course they hid the Name from themselves (the Jews) as well. Because they left no recorded Key to properly decrypt the Name back to proper usage in pronunciation.
The author however is using misdirection to support a theory that does not even exist by his own words. The sources Jews would go to to get the Name correctly do not support the author's Yehuwah theory.
One thing I will concede. Gerard Gerteoux does not seem very concerned about the distinction between "O" and "U" vowel sounds and seems to admit that in Egypt they were maybe construeing it "Yehuwah". But there is no real evidence how the vowels in heiroglyphs were vocalized. [And due to Egyptian superstitions about saying other peoples' god's names most heiroglyphs about the God of the Hebrews were destroyed over time.] Gerteoux simply analyzes the evidence by four scientific and accepted methods and comes up with some 92% probablility that the Name was pronounced Yehowah. But I have not seen misdirection or trickery like the five or six "Scholar" examples not supporting the conclusion, like with your author.
Regards,
David Merrill.
P.S. OneIsraelite; Evidenced by David Shutt coming back from Israel with the Yahuwah pronunciation and teaching it to my friend, who adhered to that doctrine no end, I have a much more believable theory derived from your author's theory. Modern day rabbis do not want the American Christians to have the correct name so they politely sit down and lure confidence (counterintelligence). They teach the correct pronunciation is not even theophoric. The name of God not theophoric?
This theory may well be supported by LegalBear misquoting the HopeofIsrael Christian/Hebrew site; replacing the Name with Yahuwah. The HopeofIsrael site has published and distributes a Hebrew version of the New Covenant and protested to the misquote. Especially since the only objective to quoting them at all seemed to be to promote the Yahuwah pronunciation as though it were the Hebrew scholars at HopeofIsrael behind it. |
Edited by - David Merrill on 18 Jul 2005 12:18:34 |
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2005 : 06:10:42
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2nd Witness:
The vowel substitution was originally made by the Masoretes as a direction to substitute Adhonai for "the ineffable name." European students of Heb. took this literally, which yielded L. JeHoVa (first attested in writings of Galatinus, 1516). – Online Etymology Dictionary http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Jehovah
The (Masoretes’) "vowel substitution"…yielded L. JeHo..., that is to say Yeho.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional USA.
Ephesians 2:12 & 19
An act done by me against my will is not my act. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 19 Jul 2005 06:31:12 |
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David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2005 : 06:43:19
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Dear OneIsraelite;
Thank you for providing a "2nd Witness". But that changes nothing about the chapter you provided. The sophisticated substution. Making a subjective argument and then giving five or six examples, none of which support the pronunciation. All from recognized "Scholars".
Therefore if the Jews, or the Masoretes encrypted the Name, they are not providing even for themselves a Key to get back to the proper pronunciation. This supports my theory, that you are subject and even victim of a more recent encryption. The modern Jews are of course guilty of slurring Christianity as idolatry. Many such indications are found in the Babylonian Talmud; in shortening Yehoshuah to Yahshuah, a simple verb "to save" instead of the theophoric "God has saved".
http://www.direct.ca/trinity/yehoshua.html
You might as well use LegalBear for your second witness as an online dictionary. That is if you saved his quotations from HopeofIsrael where he substituted "Yehuwah" into their text and published it on this forum. His two Topics were deleted because HopeofIsrael was upset about being distorted like that. And having translated the New Covenant into Hebrew to minister Christianity to the Jews, these folks are expert Hebrew scholars who would of course take exception to removing Names Yehowah and Yehoshuah from their traditional theophoric nature.
www.ecclesia.org/forum/images/suitors/Yehudah.jpg
Interleaving my experiences with three adherents to the Yehuway distortion and slur I conclude that this is an attempt by modern Jewish rabbis to protect the Sacred Name doctrine; from Christians using the true Name. Simply because this is being promulgated out of modern day Israel against the traditions of the Hebrew language which the modern day rabbis have by and large control of. One would think I have made a very good case for my theory.
Thank you for finally leading us to the sources of these distortions of the Name. Using examples from recognized Scholars that are easily traced (meaning the author not dare change in his book), examples that do not even support the author's conclusions, that was very revealing. And the depth of the misdirection; that somebody like you, who seems to be after the truth about something so important can get drawn into promulgating it. That says a lot.
Regards,
David Merrill. |
Edited by - David Merrill on 20 Jul 2005 08:10:05 |
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Uncle Buck
Advanced Member
Australia
134 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2005 : 21:40:36
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Greetings
I read the threads and think of 2 Timothy 2 vv 14 & 15.
Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed , rightly dividing the word of truth.
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If I have to be like him who is going to be like me?
James 1:25 The Perfect Law of Liberty |
Edited by - Uncle Buck on 19 Jul 2005 21:41:47 |
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David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2005 : 22:30:04
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Thank you Uncle Buck;
There are some very wise reminders; always appreciated.
I fail to see this work I do with OneIsraelite as striving over words. The adherents to the Yahuwah pronunciation seem quite justified in misquoting others, especially Bible translations in order to promote the doctrine. I actually have very little problem myself with the way people choose to pronounce the Name of God and the Messiah. It is when I detect sophistry, misdirection and deception (like the examples in the chapter quoted not supporting the doctrine) that I speak out.
I think it is falsity that is to the ruin of the hearers.
In addition I quickly saw that the pronunciation issue is directly related to this Topic subject matter about the warning. Especially as my theory coalesced about modern day rabbis misteaching the Name to Christians.
Regards,
David Merrill. |
Edited by - David Merrill on 19 Jul 2005 22:32:57 |
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2005 : 06:01:49
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brother Barry does not use "Yehuway".
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional USA.
Ephesians 2:12 & 19
An act done by me against my will is not my act. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 20 Jul 2005 06:04:29 |
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2005 : 06:16:06
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quote:
Foolish : You wish to waste more time and memory on the topic.
You have been proven wrong OneIsraelite. Proven wrong about your pronunciation of the Name so many ways. Therefore I will not be spending more archival space on the matter.
The subject matter here is right to speak the Name, regardless of the pronunciation.
Regards,
David Merrill.
quote:
In addition I quickly saw that the pronunciation issue is directly related to this Topic subject matter about the warning.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional USA.
Ephesians 2:12 & 19
An act done by me against my will is not my act. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 20 Jul 2005 06:35:59 |
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David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2005 : 08:22:18
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Dear OneIsraelite;
I believe that the Topics by LegalBear were deleted for being offensive misquotes. But I edited the above comment anyway:
quote:
You might as well use LegalBear for your second witness as an online dictionary. That is if you saved his quotations from HopeofIsrael where he substituted "Yehuwah" into their text and published it on this forum.
You are prompting me to explain by taking a couple quotes and putting them together?
The Topic here is about the right to speak the Name, regardless of pronunciation. It is a Warning not to. Not to speak the Name of God. The author feels that is only for Yehoshuah in his heavenly sanctuary to do for us as chief priest (cohen gadol). This is a Jewish notion, that the Name is ineffible, that may have begun with the destruction of the First Temple but we have clear record was amplified with the destruction of the Second Temple. There is much evidence that the Jewish rabbis adhering to the Babylonian Talmud doctrine would not be speaking it aloud among themselves, much less be teaching it to pagans and Christians.
In the synagogue it is even taught today; there is no weekly Torah study on the Ten Commandments. Ever notice that? It is taught, and I heard this one Saturday from the rabbi, the reason for its removal is that the Commands are too important to be listened in on by outsiders. Centuries ago the rabbis decided that the Commands would be misused and misconstrued by outsiders.
My theory is coming together quite nicely. Modern day Christians are lulled by the Jewish rabbis' hospitality during visits to Israel into thinking they have a confidence level that does not exist between Jews and idolaters (who equate a man with God-in-the-flesh). And so upon inquiry, the rabbis feel justified in teaching the non-theophoric version "Yahuwah" or "Yahuway" to these pagan idolaters. To preserve the sanctity of the true Name - Yehowah. The Christians come home to America thinking they have insider information about the Name of God.
Regards,
David Merrill. |
Edited by - David Merrill on 20 Jul 2005 08:26:23 |
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2005 : 08:36:32
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brother Barry does not use "Yehuwah".
quote:
And so upon inquiry, the rabbis feel justified in teaching the non-theophoric version "Yahuwah" or "Yahuway" to these pagan idolaters.
If you have definitive corroboration of the above assertion…we "pagan idolaters" are all ears, as the saying goes!!! Give us your witnesses of this, David Merrill!
And if we may be allowed to define “pagan idolater”, we take this as a great compliment, and thank you sincerely for apparently inferring that this is what we are.
Pagan, n. [L. paganus, a peasant or countryman, from pagus, a village.] …This word was originally applied to the inhabitants of the country, who on the first propagation of the christian religion adhered to the worship of false gods, or refused to receive christianity, after it had been received by the inhabitants of the cities. …Pagan is used to distinguish one from a Christian and a Mohammedan.
Idolater, n. …2. An adorer; a great admirer.
By the definitions shown above we take this endearing term to mean that we, as members of the sect of the Nazarites, are countrymen who refuse to accept christianity in its present form, and are adorers and great admirers of Yahuwâh, and His Principal Officer, Yahushua. It is truth.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional USA.
Ephesians 2:12 & 19
An act done by me against my will is not my act. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 20 Jul 2005 10:05:57 |
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 06:54:41
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quote:
And so upon inquiry, the rabbis feel justified in teaching the non-theophoric version "Yahuwah" or "Yahuway" to these pagan idolaters.
If you have definitive corroboration of the above assertion…we are all ears, as the saying goes!!! Give us your witnesses of this, David Merrill!
We apologize if we seem impatient, it's just that we are very anxious to see the evidence that the rabbis teach "the non-theophoric version "Yahuwah" or "Yahuway"".
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional USA.
Ephesians 2:12 & 19
An act done by me against my will is not my act. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 21 Jul 2005 07:07:58 |
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David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 08:06:22
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You and LegalBear are the evidence here. However it is more a confirmation of a hypothesis than acceptable evidence in itself. More deduced by your lack of evidence within that scope.
The main evidence I am using was a man named David Shutt (whom I never met) pursuading another man Joe Sorensen here after returning from Israel. There David had met with rabbis who taught him this "Yahuwah" doctrine. When Joe would read passages from the Bible he insisted on emphasizing "Yahuway" in misquote, for every time his KJV would say LORD etc. I showed him that by Hebrew tradition he was removing the Name of God from being theophoric. That just upset him that I would use Encyclopedia Judaica for my argument.
And here is another thing. When Joe first told me about David he talked about how wonderfully entheusiastic David was. He even bragged, "You should look up that word, entheusiastic in your Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary." So I did:
quote:
A belief or conceit of private revelation; the vein confidence or opinion of a person, that he has special divine communications from the Supreme Being, or familiar intercourse with him.
Joe said, "Webster was wrong!" and as you may guess that is about the final conversation we had.
So you may all consider it a hypothesis. I have given up trying to get the source of this doctrine out of you OneIsraelite. You refuse to tell us who really set you on this course of doctrine. But I strongly suspect by the tenacity you display about it, the crooked attorney tactics like demanding evidence when that is what I have been doing for over a year, comes from somebody like David Shutt. This tactic creates the illusion for the reader that I have yet to present any evidence. Slick.
You cannot speak for LegalBear. He imported some very edifying commentary starting two Topics a while ago and he changed the Name of God to "Yahuwah" or "Yahuway", I forget which. That is wrong to misquote people and especially in my opinion studied Bible translators. So that was fixed.
You yourself used to attempt an air of authority by saying you are writing from "Israel". And you used to generate this false air of authority for the purpose of promulgating your "Yehuwah" pronunciation doctrine. And to this day you sign-off with a nearly nonsensical disclaimer because Admin corrected your geographical location. Unnecessary except to show your colors.
But I find it interesting and am finally deducing your confusion, your adamant claim that the Name of God is so important you must tilt this windmill till your final breath, is due to a seeker (Christian) approaching a rabbi and thinking he or she would get the truth. Instead the non-thoephoric version was disclosed like an ancient esoteric. One only needs open up Strong's, Young's or Richardson's concordance/lexicons. You tempt me to go to my federal repository and get the Name from the sources your silly author pulled his non-supporting examples from. Thing is I already have presented plenty of evidence.
www.ecclesia.org/forum/images/suitors/Yehudah.jpg
This particular topic is about right to speak the ineffible Name. You chose to grab the opportunity to teach your docrine about pronunciation. I developed my hypothesis about the modern day rabbis from the two. I have already found and displayed gobs of evidence supporting the hypothesis.
Regards,
David Merrill.
P.S. I am pleased you have managed to spin pagan idolater into a compliment. |
Edited by - David Merrill on 21 Jul 2005 08:21:04 |
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David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 10:17:51
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This thread about the pronunciation of the Name has been appropriately moved to the more liberally moderated topic, "Psychoanalyzing David Merrill".
Find OneIsraelite's accusations at the bottom of the page:
http://www.ecclesia.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=433&whichpage=10
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Edited by - David Merrill on 22 Jul 2005 10:21:02 |
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I. Scriabin
Senior Member
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2005 : 22:59:17
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For those desirous of fruits of research and a very interesting list of documents to download for study and printout, may I suggest:
http://www.theassemblyofyahowahtheeternal.com/
They also provide a source to the Hebrew fonts for accurate printout of the documentation.
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David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 06:04:11
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Dear I. Scriabin;
I find it difficult to articulate a proper thank you.
http://www.theassemblyofyahowahtheeternal.com/knowmyname.html
This is a wonderful resource. Search/find (CTRL - F) "your own" (scriptures) mentioned twice. And then compare with the Epistle Dedicatory found in the beginning of many uncopyrighted King James Bibles - "... who wished not well unto our Sion, that..."
Simultaneously explore the link with these esoterics in mind:
http://ecclesia.org/forum/images/suitors/DavidStar.jpg
Mogan David graphic link
http://ecclesia.org/forum/images/suitors/Sword.jpg
Templar Sword
Primarily pay attention to the coat of arms. The unification or integration of Yahudah (Judah) with Ephraim. Timing. But take note of the fleur-de-lis (lily flower) which is also the French national emblem. This represents the Bloodline; the seed of Christ.
http://ecclesia.org/forum/images/suitors/fleur-de-lis.jpg
These folks are the Real McCoy. The Custodians (Genesis 49:10) delivering simply the Name in its theophoric nature for the use of the common lawful man and woman. Delivering the simple method for expelling evil from your life.
Regards,
David Merrill. |
Edited by - David Merrill on 23 Jul 2005 06:09:27 |
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 06:17:35
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quote:
"The unification or integration of Yahudah (Judah) with Ephraim. "
- David Merrill (Emphasis added)
yod hey waw daleth hey
Yahudah
Regarding the coat of arms, for what it is worth, I agree with you, David Merrill; it was one of the first things I noticed; most show the lion on both sides, and do not include the unicorn (bull) of Ephraim.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional USA.
Ephesians 2:12 & 19
An act done by me against my will is not my act. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 23 Jul 2005 06:44:07 |
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David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 09:40:09
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You do not make much of a point to underlining Yahu in Yahudah. So I presume you mean to tell me that the Name of God is Yahuwah.
www.ecclesia.org/forum/images/suitors/Yehudah.jpg
Yahudah is definitely not theophoric OneIsraelite. The Name of God on the other hand is definitely theophoric; the primary theophoric Name. Therefore the "O" sound found on the website reporting the correct Name of God and Messiah. Not "U".
Regards,
David Merrill. |
Edited by - David Merrill on 23 Jul 2005 09:41:49 |
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 10:02:04
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quote:
These folks are the Real McCoy. The Custodians (Genesis 49:10) delivering simply the Name in its theophoric nature for the use of the common lawful man and woman. Delivering the simple method for expelling evil from your life.
Regards,
David Merrill.
Does this mean that you approve of their quotations of these books of the Scripture?
"Verses 38-44 describe the impalement of two of the four criminals that flanked YAHO-Hoshu-WAH and the mocking that He endured by the general public and the Chief Priests, scribes and elders.
Matt. 27:
v.45 Now the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
v.46 And about the ninth hour YAHO-Hoshu-WAH cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani. That is to say, My Almighty, My Almighty, this is what I was spared for. (see notes at the end of Part III)
v.47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Ali-YAHO (Elijah).
v.48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a sponge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave Him to drink.
v.49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether AliYAHO will come to save Him.
v.50 YAHO-Hoshu-WAH when He cried with a loud voice, yielded up the spirit.
note on verse 49-50: what caused YAHO-Hoshu-WAH to cry out with a loud voice? Here we will quote from the “The Emphasized Bible” translation by Joseph Bryant Rotherham:
v.49 But the rest said stay! Let us see whether AliYAHO (Elijah) is coming, and will save Him! But another taking a spear pierced His side, and there came forth water and blood.
v.50 And YAHO-Hoshu-WAH again crying out with a loud voice dismissed the spirit.
There is certainly a big difference between Rotherham’s translation and the generally accepted KJV. The following will prove that Rotherham and others have chosen the more accurate translation of Matt.27:49-50:
Beginning with The Ferrar Fenton translation:
v.49 But the others called out, Let Him alone! Let us see whether AliYAHO (Elijah) will come and save Him!
v.50 But another taking a spear pierced His side, when the blood and water came out, YAHO-Hoshu-WAH, however having again called out with a loud voice, resigned His spirit.
The Concordant Literal New Testament (The Memorial Edition) of the Greek text :
v.49 Yet the rest said, Let be! we may see if AliYAHO (Elijah) is coming, and saving Him. Now another, getting a lance head, pierces His side, and out came water and blood.
v.50 Now YAHO-Hoshu-WAH, again crying with a loud voice, lets out the spirit.
The Moffat Translation:
v.49 But the other said “Stop let us see if AliYAHO (Elijah) does come to save Him!” (Seizing a lance another pricked His side, and out came water and blood).
v.50 YAHO-Hoshu-WAH again uttered a loud scream, and gave up the spirit."
We certainly do (approve)!! And, we will not even quibble with them over the use of an "O" vs the use of an "U"!
We join David Merrill, from what we have read here thus far, in highly recommending this site.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional USA.
Ephesians 2:12 & 19
An act done by me against my will is not my act. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 23 Jul 2005 10:16:07 |
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David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2005 : 18:07:35
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No. That is not what I meant by the Real McCoy. [Presuming of course that Moffat's translation has been misquoted.]
I was talking about the Messianic model in the term Shiloh:
quote:
Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
The people at that site seem comfortable in their identity as Custodian. I like to see that.
Regards,
David Merrill.
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Edited by - David Merrill on 23 Jul 2005 18:10:54 |
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The Sacred Name of YHWH - Warning
