| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Feb 2005 : 22:03:17
|
His Name is Not JESUS
We may argue ‘till the cows come home about the name given The Messiah of Yahuwah but one thing we know for certain, his name is not JESUS. The evidence from virtually every quarter tells us this is truth. This treatise, however, is not written to try to force anyone to use the name given him by the Founder, you may at your own risk, use the name given him by men, in the name of tradition, if you so choose. We indicate that it may be precarious at best because there is a Maxim of Law that states, “What one creates, one controls”.
Let’s start with Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, in his Greek Dictionary of the New Testament.
G2424
Iesous
ee-ay-sooce'
Of Hebrew origin [H3091]; Jesus (that is, Jehoshua), the name of our Lord…
Dr Strong says his name is “of Hebrew origin [H3091]” and that its origin was “Jehoshua”, so let’s look at that one next.
H3091
yehoshua; yehoshua;
yeh-ho-shoo'-ah, yeh-ho-shoo'-ah
We now bring in the concept of "syncopation"...
Random House, Webster’s Unabridged Dictionary, copyrighted 1997, pg. 1027:
Je·su…n. Literary, Jesus. [1150 – 1200; ME < LL Iesu, obl. (orig. voc.) form of Iesus < Gk Iesou; see JESUS]
Je·sus…[1200 – 1250; ME < LL Iesus < Gk Iesous < Heb Yeshua’, syncopated var. (variation) of Yehoshua…]
For those not certain as to how to read the etymology of a word, reading it from the right bracket (bold and in red) to the bolded word at the far left Jesus, it starts with the oldest known form of the word (Yehoshua), eventually taking you to the most modern version of it (Jesus).
We now go to Webster’s 1828 Dictionary to find out exactly what “syncopated var. [variation]” means:
SYN'COPATE, v.t. [See Syncope.] To contract, as a word, by taking one or more letters or syllables from the middle.
We see here that letters and/or syllables were removed from the middle of the “origin” of his name, the name given him by the Supreme Suveran of the Universe, which by all rules of reason, one would think we would all be most anxious to use, considering the fact that our Scriptures seem to indicate that the Creator gave him a name which is above every name. (Philippians 2:9)
In both Strong’s Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary and Brown-Driver-Briggs’ Hebrew Lexicon we find two variations of the name of our Messiah. Unfortunately the font on Ecclesia.org apparently does not sustain either the Ancient Hebrew or Aramaic/Hebrew so we will have to name the letters of these two accounts. The first that we see is yod, hey, waw, shiyn, waw, ayin, six Hebrew letters. The second version is yod, hey, waw, shiyn, ayin, five letters; one letter, the second waw, has now apparently been removed, i.e. syncopated.
Now then, this name is made up of two Hebrew words, the first being yah, yeh, yahu or yeho; let us attempt to solve the mystery of which one it is.
The first word that makes up the Hebrew name of our Messiah is made up of three Hebrew letters, yod, hey, waw. Here for the edification of the body are the Hebrew letters for Yahh, pronounced according to Dr Strong as yaw, as found in both Strong’s Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary and Brown-Driver-Briggs’ Hebrew Lexicon at #H3050, yod, hey. We seem to be missing the Hebrew letter waw as found in the “origin”, yod, hey, waw, shiyn, waw, ayin, of the name of our Messiah. (See the definition of “syncopate” above once more.)
So how are yod, hey, waw pronounced? To demonstrate this we look for a word that contains these three Hebrew letters and the first one we find in Strong’s Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary is the word/name Abiyahuw, which means, “Yahuwah is Father (Founder)”. This word/name ends in yod, hey, waw and is pronounced, according to James Strong, ab-ee-yaw’-hoo. We have found, thus far, forty witnesses to attest to this pronunciation of yod, hey, waw in Strong’s Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary! (Anyone desiring to see this list may e-mail us at our temporary e-mail location: Peculiar1s#yahoo.com.)
So, if the name that is above every name, the one given him by the Creator of the Universe, begins with yod, hey, waw then with a multitude of witnesses (40 thus far), may we safely presume that the first two syllables of the original name was yaw-hoo and not simply yah, yeh or even yeho?
Two noteworthy things we wish to bring up here is that Dr Strong, in his Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary, states that the full name of the Creator is pronounced yeh-ho-vaw' (#H3068), but that the shortened version of this very same name is pronounced yaw (#H3050); which is it Dr Strong, yeh or yaw? We perceive that it cannot be both! This is akin to saying that Dab is the contracted version of Deborah, which hopefully, we can all see is ridiculous; Deb is the shortened version of Deborah! And the second point being that there is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence that any word ending with the Hebrew letter hey is pronounced aw, hence the complete name would be pronounced yaw-oo-aw’ as opposed to yaw-oo-ay' or yaw-oo-eh'. And as for the "v" that Dr Strong shows... He shows this for the pronunciation of Levi; lay-vee'. We believe that this word is pronounced lay-oo-ee or loo-ee', if we are not mistaken. Regardless, Levi comes from the Hebrew word lamed, waw, hey,, which is correctly pronounced law-oo-ah', thus demonstrating for us, both the waw (vs. vav or vaw) and the hey.
We now turn our attention back to the last word in the original name of our Messiah, namely shuwa, spelled in the Hebrew, shiyn, waw, ayin or simply shiyn, ayin. To discover which of these two spellings is correct, we go to the word itself found at Strong’s #H7769 and not at #H3467 as Dr Strong indicates at #H3091. If the name above every name was made up of #H3068 and #3467 as James Strong states, it would be transliterated Yahu’yasha or Yahuwah’yasha, and it should be obvious even to the careless observer that it is not!!
H3467
yasha#8219;
yaw-shah'
The Hebrew name of Isaiah is made up of #H3467 & #H3050 and is pronounced yesh-ah-yaw'-hoo, and of course, here again we see that yod, hey, waw is pronounced yaw-hoo. Also, when we go to #H3467 we see that it is pronounced yaw-shah' and not yesh-ah! Further, does anyone else but us, find it strange that there are two accounts of the last word in this name, namely yod, hey and yod, hey, waw? This being truth, why do we not see both variations at #H3050? Could this again be the work of the syncopist, a liar with a pen in his hand? Most likely, since their instructions, which are found in the Mishnaic text of Tamid vii. 2 (= Sota vii. 6), were, and are, to “disguise” the name of the Creator.
Anyway, let us return to the last part of our Messiah’s name; we were about to go to Strong’s #H7769, shuwa, to find out what the Hebrew spelling was. Lo and behold, look what we find, shiyn, waw, ayin, three letters, and not two! That syncopist, it seems, has been having a field day with the two most important names in the Set Apart Scripture. Wonder why they went to all this trouble if, “it doesn’t matter what I call him, he has many names”? Judging by just the next three verses alone, it certainly appears to us that the name that was inspired into the Set Apart Scripture nearly seven thousand times might be important to the Inspirer thereof.
Pour out thy fury upon the heathen [nations] that know thee not, and upon the families [tribe(-s)] that call not on thy name… Yirm’yahu [Jeremiah] 10:25
[Note: In Brown-Driver-Briggs’ Hebrew Dictionary we do not find “authority” amongst the definitions of shem; name. There are fourteen mentions of the word “authority” throughout BDB’s dictionary but not one of them is found at #H8034!]
For then I will purify the lips of the peoples, that they may all call on the name of Yahuwah, to serve him shoulder to shoulder. Tsaphan’yahu [Zephaniah] 3:9 (HNV)
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, Yahuwah is my ’Elohiym [Ruler]. Zakar’yahu [Zechariah] 13:9
And as we have pointed out before here at Ecclesia.org, #H7769 does not mean “riches” (opulence; 2a) meaning dubious [doubtful] - BDB), it means...
H7769 shua, [pronounced] shoo'-ah; From H7768; a halloo
H7775 …Feminine of H7773; a hallooing
H7773 …From H7768; a hallo
H7768 …A primitive root; properly to be free; but used only causatively and reflexively to hallo
We see from the above four witnesses that the choice, by Dr Strong, of the word "halloo" was not a coinkydink (coincidence)...
HAL'LOO, v.i. To cry out; to exclaim with a loud voice; to call to by name (Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language)
…Hence, our Messiah’s name, Yahu’shua, means, “halloo Yahuwah” i.e. "cry out to Yahuwah", or “call on the name of Yahuwah”, which only makes sense, since this is the name to which “every knee shall bow [bend]”.
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I Yahuwah [#H3068]? and there is no ‘Elohiym else beside me; a just ‘Elohiym and a Saviour [#H3467 – yasha]; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am ‘Elohiym, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear [#H7650 – shaba, to seven oneself, that is, swear (as if by repeating a declaration seven times)]. Yasha’yahu [Isaiah] 45:21-23
[Note: “Seven - This number has been called the symbol of…rest. – Easton’s Bible Dictionary]
We propose that if what we have given you as the definition of Yahu’shua were not correct, then the following verses of the Scripture would not be truth, but you decide.
Wherefore Yahuwah also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Yahu’shua every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Yahu’shua, the Messiah, is Lord, to the glory [honour] of Yahuwah the Father. Philippians 2:9-11
This verse from Yahu'el [Joel] is quoted twice in the New Covenant [Testament]. Note well what name it says to call upon!
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Yahuwah [#H3068] shall be delivered… Yahu’el [Joel] 2:32
By putting the name Yahu'shua, which means, "Halloo Yahuwah", in the next two verses, they would precisely match Yahu'el [Joel] 2:32.
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Yahu'shua [#H3091 “Halloo Yahuwah”] shall be saved. Act 2:21
For whosoever shall call upon the name of Yahu'shua [#H3091 “Halloo Yahuwah”] shall be saved. Romans 10:13
However, if on the other hand, we put another name there, say JESUS for example, these verses would no longer be saying the same thing and using that name as the source of your salvation might bring Yahu'hanan [John] 5:43 to bear.
For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN ‘ELOHIYM. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, Him declare I unto you. Act 17:23
O magnify Yahuwah with me, and let us exalt his name together.
A Psalm of David 34:3
It is done.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 13 Feb 2005 19:30:08 |
|
|
downhomepraise
Junior Member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2005 : 08:28:14
|
Hi oneisraelite,
I am new here as of today.
His name is not Jesus is what brought me here. That and finding out Amen is the name of a greek god. I am really here to learn. I can see truth in what you say. I saw this in the link below about the name of Jezeus and thought you might could tell me why they say his name means "Pure Essence"?
(21) His disciples bestowed upon him the title "Jezeus," meaning "pure essence." (22)
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen047.html
And also is this true about Krishna?
thanks,
David
|
 |
|
|
David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2005 : 09:39:31
|
While very true we may argue about these things incessantly, notice Oneisraelite's deviation of the Father's name Yehovah to Yahuway in the very first sentence above. Do not accept that as true without a decent explanation. I can explain why the Strong's pronunciation should be accepted, just as Oneisraelite is relying on Strong's Lexicon for support of the Messiah's name.
quote:
So how are yod, hey, waw pronounced? To demonstrate this we look for a word that contains these three Hebrew letters and the first one we find in Strong’s Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary is the word/name Abiyahuw, which means, “Yahuwah is Father (Founder)”. This word/name ends in yod, hey, waw and is pronounced, according to James Strong, ab-ee-yaw’-hoo. We have found, thus far, forty witnesses to attest to this pronunciation of yod, hey, waw in Strong’s Hebrew and Chaldee Dictionary!
Read that carefully and pay particular attention to prefix verse suffix; the theophoric part, the Name being used at the beginning or end of the word or name.
www.ecclesia.org/forum/images/suitors/Yehudah.jpg
Yehudah not theophoric
Adopting a convention that is non-Hebraic, specially from a teacher who is not supported by any formal Hebrew training is unwise. Once I pressed a man to tell me. He started to go into the tribe of Judah Yehudah, which you can see by the Encyclopedia Judaica above, is not a theophoric name. Well then, I get flack about using Judaica based on some kind of super-conspiracy theory. Thing is, Encyclopedia Judaica agrees with all the facts. So the super-conspiracy is that all the facts have been perverted by the Jews.
But David, here is the thing about standards. If Oneisraelite is going to run for Strong's to prove one point, then he is using Strong's for a standard. He should stick to it or at least give a thorough explanation why he would deviate on such an important point as the Name of God.
Regards,
David Merrill.
P.S. Oneisraelite; Are you really located in the Eretz, the Biblical land of Israel on the eastern Mediterranean or do you just say that by some spiritual claim?
P.P.S. The above question led to correcting Oneisraelite's bio to say the server he writes through is located physically in the USA, not Israel. There were several Posts removed from the Topic authored by Oneisraelite which may make my Posts a bit choppy reading. To summarize (fill in the blanks) Oneisraelite was defending his ability to say he was writing from Israel based on a disclaimer he prints in his Posts about being among the "commonwealth" of Israel not the body politic "State of Israel".
|
Edited by - David Merrill on 23 Feb 2005 18:06:09 |
|
|
|
David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2005 : 18:14:35
|
quote:
P.S. I'm just curious, are most of the people on this ecclesia located in, i.e. live and move and have their being in USA, or is that by some spiritual claim?
Speaking for myself, I clicked the wrong button thinking 'default to USA' and thus said I was in Albania for a few days. Admin corrected it to USA. A quick look at Members tells me about nine out of ten members are here in the USA.
Search engine shows http://www.peak.sfu.ca/the-peak/2002-3/issue10/meetSFU.html so indicating you are in Canada. But a cut-and-paste proves your locale not.
The reason I ask is if you are actually, physically in Israel that might bolster your credibility as a Hebrew scholar, having so many Hebrew speaking people around you.
Are you in Israel?
|
Edited by - David Merrill on 17 Feb 2005 18:33:09 |
|
|
|
David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2005 : 10:06:19
|
quote:
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL.
I believe this is your way of saying that you are not writing from Israel.
I for one, have been under the impression you are located in Israel by your saying so in your bio. Thought you should know.
Regards,
David Merrill.
|
Edited by - David Merrill on 18 Feb 2005 10:08:29 |
|
|
|
David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2005 : 10:58:08
|
Downhomepraise said:
quote:
Hi oneisraelite,
I am new here as of today.
His name is not Jesus is what brought me here...
You quoted Strong's to help clarify the name Yehoshuah is correctly the Hebrew/Aramaic way to say "Jesus". But you were also indicating the name of the Father to be Yahuway and were putting that doctrine into place, swapping prefixes and suffixes.
I figured Downhomepraise might believe you had an inside track, to be able to correct Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, being that you are writing from Israel. That's all. Trivial as it might seem to you.
If you are not writing from Israel but from the closest catagory "USA" - that is the correction you should make to your bio. Change "Israel" to "USA". It is misleading, even after your humble apology. Not only that, people who have up and moved to Israel, for whatever reason would probably take exception to people who claim to have done that without actually going through the physical expense and trouble.
Regards,
David Merrill.
|
Edited by - David Merrill on 19 Feb 2005 11:10:41 |
|
|
|
Cornerstone Foundation
Advanced Member
uSA
254 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2005 : 14:59:55
|
quote:
David Merrill wrote:
You quoted Strong's to help clarify the name Yehoshuah is correctly the Hebrew/Aramaic way to say "Jesus".
Cornerstone Foundation wrote:
When we read what OneIsra[y]lite has written in his posts to this topic, we do not regard the information we see in those posts as saying what the quote above states about them.
The way we read what one Isra[y]lite has written, it seems that one Isra[y]lite most certainly does not intend to convey the idea that Yehoshuah is correctly the Hebrew/Aramaic way to say anything.
It seems that OneIsra[y]lite is in fact conveying that the opposite is true. Yehoshuah is the incorrect way to say the name of the first begotten Son of the Ever-living Father of our ancestors Abraham, Isaac and Israyl.
It also seems to us that OneIsra[y]lite is presenting a message that the name of our Savior is not “Jesus”.
Having said that …please consider this.
“Yehoshuah” may or may not be a way to say “Jesus” . OneIsra[y]lite has not addressed the name “Yehoshuah” at all in this topic.
OneIsra[y]lite has addressed the name “Jesus” in this topic, but has not attempted to translate that word into either Hebrew or Aramaic.
Many of the readers on the Ecclesia Forum suffer from the same handicap that we at Cornerstone Foundation suffer from.
The handicap is this. We acquired many of our “communication skills” in the public school system.
We were told that we were being “educated”. The truth is, we did not receive a true education there. As a result it has been necessary for us to make further endeavors in this regard. Therefore we are currently in the process of being educated. Please bear with until the process is further along.
In spite of our mutual handicap we can do better than we have in the past. It is our observation that brother Robert(i.e. OneIsra[y]lite) is a much better communicator than many of us.
We encourage you to reread what OneIsra[y]lite has posted. Whether each of us agree with what he has written is a separate issue that should not be confused with what he has actually written.
Communication skills involve not only speaking or writing well, but also listening and reading well. In our opinion brother Robert expresses his point of view quite clearly.
How do you read it?
Respectfully Submitted,
Marty |
Edited by - Cornerstone Foundation on 19 Feb 2005 15:05:48 |
|
|
|
Cornerstone Foundation
Advanced Member
uSA
254 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2005 : 15:23:43
|
quote:
David Merrill wrote:
But you{meaning OneIsra[y]lite} were also indicating the name of the Father to be Yahuway and were putting that doctrine into place, swapping prefixes and suffixes.....
.....While very true we may argue about these things incessantly, notice Oneisraelite's deviation of the Father's name Yehovah to Yahuway in the very first sentence above. Do not accept that as true without a decent explanation.
Cornerstone Foundation wrote:
We have cut and pasted the “very first sentence above". It is as follows:
quote:
One Isra[y]lite wrote...in the very first sentence in this topic...
We may argue ‘till the cows come home about the name given The Messiah of Yahuwah but one thing we know for certain, his name is not JESUS.
It does not “indicate that [OneIsra[y]lite] has represented the Father’s name as being “Yahuway”.
Question for the Ecclesia…How do you read it?
Respectfully submitted
Marty |
|
|
|
David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2005 : 16:07:53
|
By simple substitution. The Lord or God is often referred to as the Father.
I will clarify it. The Lord or more often "LORD" of the Holy Bible is Yehovah, not Yahuway.
P.S. Cornerstone Foundation; You said;
quote:
OneIsra[y]lite has not addressed the name “Yehoshuah” at all in this topic.
and he essentially did. Specifically by Strong's #H3091. Technically the spelling at H3091 is "Jehoshuwa" sounding out "yeh-ho-shoo-ah" which is how I spelled it.
I think I understand the remainder of your point. I obviously feel that in part by creating the illusion he is writing from Israel, Oneisraelite is attempting to convince a new member to pronounce the name of the Father Yehovah impromperly, Yahuway. I clearly inferred if he is going to correct Strong's Concordance, please explain but so far, he has declined.
|
Edited by - David Merrill on 19 Feb 2005 16:27:12 |
|
|
|
Cornerstone Foundation
Advanced Member
uSA
254 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2005 : 09:52:54
|
quote:
David Merrill wrote:
I figured Downhomepraise might believe you had an inside track, to be able to correct Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, being that you are writing from Israel. That's all. Trivial as it might seem to you.
Cornerstone Foundation wrote:
The above quote was made in this topic, but seems apropos to the “Original War by Propaganda” topic. Therefore we have responded to it at that topic heading. The response can be read after clicking on the following link: http://ecclesia.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=414
Best Regards,
Marty
|
|
|
|
Cornerstone Foundation
Advanced Member
uSA
254 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2005 : 09:55:32
|
quote:
David Merrill wrote:
I figured Downhomepraise might believe you had an inside track, to be able to correct Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, being that you are writing from Israel. That's all. Trivial as it might seem to you.
Cornerstone Foundation wrote:
The above quote was made in this topic, but seems apropos to the “Original War by Propaganda” topic. Therefore we have responded to it at that topic heading. The response can be read after clicking on the following link: http://ecclesia.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=414&whichpage=10
Best Regards,
Marty
|
Edited by - Cornerstone Foundation on 20 Feb 2005 10:04:18 |
|
|
|
David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2005 : 19:24:20
|
Close examination speaks for itself.quote:
...and to The Book of Yahweh for directing us to this new witness.)
You will not explain the transposition of suffix with prefix. Like always. That is the only reason I catagorize you with The Yahweh People. You are a "Sacred Name (Group)". But the main difference it would seem is that they were quietly among their small congregation. They would not try to teach it with such sophistry to a seeker like Downhomepraise. And best I know they would not lie about their location.quote:
oneisraelite
Advanced Member
Israel
340 Posts
I call your points sophistry because you twist it back to your Yehushuah and Yahuwah. Which is for some reason protected esoteric. A private matter unto you as to why.
As for Yeh v. Yah, that is another matter.quote:
Dictionary of Biblical Tradition in English Literature:
NAMES OF GOD ... God's proper and holiest name, YHWH, produces Yah by apocopation and also forms such combinations as YHWH seba'ot, "God of armies."...
andquote:
A New Standard Bible Dictionary
JEHOVAH, ji-ho-va, (yehowah but properly yahweh): The form 'Jehovah' is impossible, according to the strict principles of Heb. vocalization. It is due to the arbitrary transference of the vowels of adhonay, 'lord,' to the sacred name [Yod, Hey, Vaw, Hey] after the Jews became over-scrupulous as to the pronunciation of the Name...
|
Edited by - David Merrill on 20 Feb 2005 20:00:24 |
|
|
|
David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2005 : 08:44:31
|
Oneisraelite;
You opened this topic with your Yahuway agenda:
quote:
His Name is Not JESUS
We may argue ‘till the cows come home about the name given The Messiah of Yahuwah but one thing we know for certain, his name is not JESUS.
Sure. You apologized for defrauding the people here. But you continue to say you write from "Israel".
You even will direct people to your bio, which I have not read lately. When it would be so much simpler to just enter the country that is truthful. Better yet, Admin should correct it for you like they did me when I mistakenly told people I was writing from Albania (the first country on the alphabetical list).
The truth is you are not writing from Israel. It is a grandious label you put on yourself and refuse to give up. You should change it to "USA" (or wherever) if you want me to take you seriously. I thought you were located in Israel and were not a Zionist. I thought that is what you meant by 'commonwealth'. You had me going for a long time. I admit it. It gave you an air of credibility that I now see you did not deserve.
quote:
Oneisraelite said:
It is my opinion that you care for very few, aside from David Merrill, so I wonder who created this person, "downhomepraise", David?
I accuse you of misdirecting Downhomepraise with false credentials - that you are writing from Israel and now you are accusing me of creating Downhomepraise? Fabrications to protect your lie are growing absolutely rediculous. That's how it goes with liars. You would best have just said you were writing from Israel and hoped Admin would let you keep it up.
I doubt anyone is buying your false accusation. Truth be told I became curious if you were misdirecting a new member. You came forward teaching him to say Yahuway without explanation. This catagorically joindered you with some people I have known in my past that say God's Name that way. I risked the above aspersions* for a stranger, just because he came here seeking the truth. You would have proven yourself honest by explaining rather than making up lies about me.
Regards,
David Merrill.
* Accompanied by the obvious lie about being in Israel, your aspersions really have little effect. What gets me is that anyone who disagrees with you about anything and knows the truth can simply call you to the mat on your lie in the future. You discredit yourself with every Post. |
Edited by - David Merrill on 21 Feb 2005 17:53:16 |
|
|
|
downhomepraise
Junior Member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2005 : 20:35:19
|
Hi Fellow servants of the Father in heaven,
I have been reading the post and I thought I would let you know I am still around.
I have a question about this post by oneisraelite:
Addendum (to original post):
One more witness as to why the name(s) start with yah, rather than yeh can be found in the Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Bible, pages 1141-1142:
“JESUS (The Name): In English, the name Jesus is a transliteration of the Latin form IESUS, which represents the Greek form Iesous, of the Hebrew name yesua (yeshua). The latter (yesua, yeshua) is a LATE FORM, by VOWEL DISSIMILATION, of the Name yosua (Yahshua)…” [Emphasis added]
According to the above dictionary the translation of Jesus is accurate from Hebrew to Greek. Is that right???
Thanks,
David
|
|
|
|
downhomepraise
Junior Member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2005 : 20:46:25
|
By the way, I did think that oneisrealite was in Isreal and I did have a boost of credibility in that thought so David Merrill was right.
I also thought that oneisrealite was saying he was part of the beleievers of Yahshua in Isreal not like the majority in the State of Isreal because of the way he spelled Yisra'el as I have never seen that before so I could only asume that is what it meant. I still do not know what it means.
Blessings to you fellow believers,
David |
|
|
|
downhomepraise
Junior Member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2005 : 22:00:34
|
I posted a question at the beginning of this thread and no one has addressed it. I also posted a link about the question. Can anyone tell me if what is said on the link about Krishna & Jesus having the same simularities true? Also the reason I asked that was becasue the same link that I posted said the Jezeus means "pure essence" for what ever that is worth.
Anyway, I am looking to learn. thanks for your replies!
David |
|
|
|
David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2005 : 08:50:01
|
Downhomepraise;
I continue to correct the biblical pronunciation to Yehoshuah. Primarily because Yahshua is a verb with no theophoric reference. I think for the Messiah's name, it is a slur to reduce it from "God is my salvation" to "he has saved" - a simple verb. Dr. James D. Price has found reference to this 'slur' in the Babylonian Talmud and suggests the origin of the redaction to be motivated by Jewish antichristian thought.
http://www.direct.ca/trinity/yehoshua.html
link to James D. Price paper on the name Yehoshuah
The Krishna link:
I have never heard of that directly. However I just finished The Rosicrucian Manual and the AMORC (Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crusis) finds its root in both Egypt but recently the Indian magi. Just prior to Sir Francis Bacon was an Indian mystic who vitalized the ancient esoterics.
The cross in Rosicrucianism comes from the morning services. First the priest looked east into the rising sun and then turned to face the west, arms outstretched, legs together. He would have seen his shadow resembling a cross. It is much more work to construct and maintain the Christian cross than a simpler "X" construction. So there is evidence the Christian cross is fabricated out of Roman/Greco paganism, maybe of the same origins as the ancient mystical occult arts.
I am simply suggesting there may be some credibility to the rumor about Krishna and the Messiah being related by certain cultures in history.
Regards,
David Merrill.
|
Edited by - David Merrill on 22 Feb 2005 09:02:57 |
|
|
|
downhomepraise
Junior Member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2005 : 21:19:25
|
David Merrill,
I read the link you posted in the last post and it seems to me in the below segment of info Dr. James Price says that Jesus is the correct Greek translation for the Hebrew name. Is that also your opinion?
The title of the book is appropriately named after its central figure, Joshua. His original name is Hoshea, "Salvation" (Num.13:8); but Moses evidently changes it to Yehoshua, "Yahweh (Jehovah) is Salvation" (Num.13:16). He is also called Yeshua, a shortened form of Yehoshua. This is the Hebrew equivalent of the Greek name Iesous (Jesus). (NKJV, Thomas Nelson Inc.,1980, p.190)
thanks,
David |
|
|
|
Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2005 : 11:09:17
|
Yahu shua; Halloo Yahuwâh (for Freedom)!
Yahu’el [Joel] 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Yahuwâh shall be delivered… (See also Act 2:21 & Romans 10:13)
Believe whom you like, stay with the traditions of men if you so choose, call upon whomsoever you will, it is not a man's place to tell another man what he must do.[/font=Book Antiqua]
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional USA.
An act done by me against my will is not my act. |
|
|
|
David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2005 : 13:12:15
|
Dear Downhomepraise;
I am an advocate of common law. That is to say common agreement. In English-speaking nations when you say Jesus, we all know who you mean. Fine. Strong's, Young's and Richardson's all agree that Yehoshuah is the proper pronunciation for Jesus. Thus no need for me to make my point by writing it for you in big red letters.
The Topic "Original War by Propaganda" endeavors to explore the Pauline heresy that developed Christianity. Since Paul was born in Greek-speaking Cilicia, City of Tarsus, and spent his ministerial campaigns in Asia Minor (Turkey) we have to deal with Greek letters in that context. That is to say, with that question in mind, you should read the Topic - http://ecclesia.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=414&whichpage=1
Which is to say, question the validity of even exploring the Greek interval of translating Hebrew/Aramaic into English. Another way of saying I do not know the answer to your question too. I have the Strong's G#2424 memorized though. It supports that Greek pronunciation for Jesus. I have never seen the significance of whether or not the Greek pronunciation was correct.
Regards,
David Merrill.
P.S. I doubt the above quote is correct:
quote:
Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call. King James Version
Strong's H#3068 all three occurances of "Lord" which is pronounced Yehovah "yeh-ho-vaw". |
Edited by - David Merrill on 23 Feb 2005 16:35:17 |
|
|
|
David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2005 : 07:20:45
|
Upon this subject matter and my insistence on explanation on another Topic here "Expatriation: the Remedy", I will summarize.
By Jewish and probably Israelite convention, when a name has the Yehu suffix used for a prefix, that indicates no theophoric nature in the name. That is to say there is no reference to God in any name beginning with Yehu.
www.ecclesia.org/forum/images/suitors/Yehudah.jpg
Yehudah not theophoric link
This is supported by there being no Yehushuah in any of the standard concordances and the contraction (syncopation) of Yehoshuah to Yehshua is obviously removal of the theophoric nature of that name as well. See Strong's #3091 and #3442.
http://www.direct.ca/trinity/yehoshua.html
link to James D. Price paper on the name Yehoshuah
And note that Dr. Price never mentions moving the Yahu suffix to a prefix. Either he has never heard of the convention or feels it is too insignificant to mention. For whatever reason, it does not get addressed in his paper.
The difference between Yah and Yeh is not argued here. Not by me. It is likely the vowels for Adonah are overlayed upon Yahweh by the Jews in their efforts to avoid using His Name in vain. So the issue I have been debating so vehemently is the insertion of a distinctive vowel sound hoo into prefixes where it is improper to do so; unless of course like Dr. Price points out, to slur the Name of God or the Messiah. Thus it would seem trivial at first glance but very important to me when I see a slur on the Creator promulgated here on these pages.
Now I suppose the argument about Adonah being overlayed on Yahway could be imposed upon the convention above from Encyclopedia Judaica. But that would involve deviation from the common law standards for English interpretation and transliteration of the Bible. I do not advocate doing that because you will almost lose any argument or debate on such shaky foundation. It even smacks of a conspiracy so farfetched as to be conspiracy theory of a paranoid nature.
Regards,
David Merrill.
|
Edited by - David Merrill on 03 Mar 2005 07:37:45 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
His Name is Not JESUS
