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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Nov 2004 : 09:15:46
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Greetings Solace:
quote:
Originally posted by Solace
Then by what you say Paul is a liar.
Is this not what Shaul/Paul says himself?
Romans 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Keep in mind, however, that there are numerous examples in the Scripture where Yahowah apparently rewards "liars"; Rahab, who lied to her "god", via his agents [soldiers], being one example, the Egyptian midwives who lied to their "god" concerning the birthing of the Yisra'elites, and etc.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 21 Nov 2004 09:21:23 |
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Walter
Advanced Member
USA
144 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2004 : 11:25:18
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quote:
Originally posted by legalbear
My first post here has to do with some revelation I got recently on Samaritans out of the woman of the well story in John 4:
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Hi LegalBear,
The story at John 4 really is something. Christ Himself going to Samaria, initiating contact with a Samaritan woman, then staying two days to teach them. That's some message to those who pride themselves in their status among men. As is obvious, God sees differently.
It highlights something that's been hitting me of late, that which is spoken of at Revelation 3:
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
It appears to me that God places the wicked above the uncommitted - committed in the sense of actual works, not supposed alignment. I've perceived that the wicked have, in their own strange way, a righteousness that exceeds that of the mob. It seems to me that people who follow the laws of wickedness are more likely to find salvation than those committed to the winds of fashion. At least they are noble enough (if I can say it that way) to follow a "law." The righteous have God's law to keep (which is in their hearts); the wicked keep theirs; but God places the lawless among murders:
1 Ti 1:9* Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
Who are the lawless except those that have no law? Examples would be those who know we're all to pay income tax to the I.R.S., have driver licenses to use automobiles on the public rights of way, send our children to public schools, and so on. The law does not force any of the proceeding things, but applies only in limited situations (as I'm sure you are aware) in this Christian land. But they don't want to hear about the law - they gape in astonished horror if someone "drives" without a license, and cluck their tongues when someone goes to jail for alleged "tax evasion." To me this is the same casual do-as-everyone-else-is-doing mentality that led the mob to join the shout for Christ's crucifixion.
That Christ taught the 'evil', lowly Samaritans - initiating contact through a woman (lowest of the low) - shows the "I've never done anything really bad" crowd how low on the spiritual food chain they really are. Their works and lack of evil deeds is not the issue. They are, we all are, as you referenced Phil 2:7, to make ourselves like Christ who made Himself of no reputation. Our reputations among men are of no consequence, we are to serve God. It seems to me that one's "friends" who drink and dine with you but who wouldn't lift a finger to aid you are more wicked than the gang of thieves which robs your house. That's what the parable of the good Samaritan says to me. We all fall short and it's Christ righteousness we put on in baptism, not our own, isn't it?
[/rant]<g>
Walter |
Edited by - Walter on 21 Nov 2004 11:29:04 |
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2004 : 17:34:16
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Greetings and salutations in the name of the King, brother Walter:
Peace be unto the house.
Your take on the “lukewarm” verse from Revelations is quite interesting and brought to mind something I once read in a book entitled “Uncommon Sense”. In this book the author explains that prior to the war with King George, 2% were in favor of independence from England, 2% were dead-set against it, and 96% were undecided and went with whichever side happened to have the upper hold at any given moment.
The 2% for, and the 2% against, though bitter enemies, had respect for each other, but neither of them had one iota of respect for the 96% that went wherever the wind blew; they could not be trusted by either side, it seems.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
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Walter
Advanced Member
USA
144 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2004 : 10:35:04
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quote:
Originally posted by oneisraelite
The 2% for, and the 2% against, though bitter enemies, had respect for each other, but neither of them had one iota of respect for the 96% that went wherever the wind blew; they could not be trusted by either side, it seems.
In defense of some part of that 96%, I suspect that there were some who legitimately did not consider the difference worth fighting over. But the larger part, much like many today, likely didn't know or care about anything other than their own bellies, and could not muster enough concern over his fellow man's plight to defend him against tyranny. Imagine if even twenty percent of the people today took an active concern over government's treading outside its lawful bounds - most of the problems we face would be solved, I believe.
But let's face it, this is the way people are. Only a small portion truly care about much other than themselves. Many who say they care buy off their moral responsibilities with donations so they can continue their lives of leisure. To be truly effective in a cause of any sort one must study and learn and practice and study and learn more. Churches are filled with the morally lazy who, in effect, enjoy a religious show every Sunday (or other day). We are to show ourselves approved by study. 2 Ti 2:15 --I expect I'm preaching to the choir here.-- I've begun to think that these unconcerned are more loveless and evil than the criminals we worry about.
And we must also be aware that there are those among the sheep who intentionally mislead them for destruction (not merely for filthy lucre); I believe those to be a significant percentage, these wolves among sheep who disuade and misdirect those seeking truth. I recall the handfull of so-called Christian men I've dealt with in more than a casual way the past several years, and I have to say that a good third I now believe to be devils. Another third have 'problems' in exhibiting Christ-like behavior to their fellows or are content to sit on their laurels. (I don't mean that I or anyone lacks some sort of 'issues,' but that these men were constantly selfish, boastful, or brutish.) Such are the hazards of life, ehh?
Well, I've gone into a rant-like thing again... |
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2004 : 19:20:54
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Go ahead and rant, brother Walter, we'll listen. Well said, by the way.
-brother Robert: & sister Kathleen:
Kathleen: said, "maybe a few more will hear, you never know".
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
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True North
Advanced Member
USA
163 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2004 : 23:49:14
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Recently, these excepted paragraphs were posted to another group. These words from these paragraphs have set heavy on me since. Walter gave an admonition about ravening wolves that scatter the flock and, although I am ignorant of some of the process of creation, some of the following does not set well.
We of the Kingdom have our identity through the King. The preaching of His Kingdom and making disciples of Him is foremost. Law and legal issues are an aside that need consideration to be able to correctly decipher the Kingdom, how the Kingdom works and how to deal with those who don't take on the government of that Kingdom. They also help me to understand how to love my neighbor as myself but foremost is the Kings' Kingdom and the government of that Kingdom.
(Excepted paragraphs) ... "As we are told that the scriptures are given for our edification we need to understand that the world was/is full of scriptures. The most ancient of man’s scriptures are, to my knowledge, those of The Hermetic Order of Luxor, Egypt.
Within them are the teachings that in the beginning there was only the Spirit. And in order for that Infinite Spirit to become matter, an equal portion (how could a fraction of infinity not be infinite?) of said Spirit, say a “Son” had to “die” to the ultra high frequency off the mass-less energy that is Spirit, in order to become the lower “frequency” of the Infinite that is matter.
Six thousand years ago, it is recorded that a group of these Creationist missionaries went out into the world in order to teach of the Creations of the Infinite Spirit. Via the available understanding of the Man, it was taught that a equal Son of God “died” and spent three cyclic periods/days of creation in/as the bowels of the earth in order that we [might] live, and move, and have our being [in him]; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Acts 17:28.
As the facts are that there are 16 “world” saviors that have been recorded as having been crucified on the cross through-out the world, we would do best to know that archeologists have proven that the ancient Mesopotamians used the cross at least 4,000 years ago in their “spring equinox” festivities. We can know that the very first “Easter eggs,” as a symbol of the re-birth of the world, had crosses painted on them. The ‘cross’ was a symbol for the Earth long before the life of Jesus on the Earth ... (end Excepted paragraphs).
This identity of the King of the Kingdom is from 1 Corinthians 15:45 ... "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit" ...
By translating the Hebrew word "adam" as a proper name and not an adjective enhancing the definition of to two particular and peculiar entities, I can easily jump the gap to ... a group of these Creationist missionaries ... and ... 16 “world” saviors ...
On the other hand, if I translate the Hebrew word "adam" as an adjective peculiar to two entities only, I can come up with the Lawful basis for a King of a Kingdom instead of just one of the sixteen ... "world" saviors ...
The historicity of the cross (tav or tau - the last letter of the Hebrew alef-bet) and the fertility festival with its egg symbol cannot be argued. What can be debated is where it came from. Did the legends of the fertility goddess come from the first adam or did the "virgin" birth come from the myths?
These are important questions of identity of Kingdom people. The "virgin" birth deals with identity of a King. (an aside - she cannot have been a "virgin" in a semantic sense because once the head of the baby breaches the matrix, she is no longer a virgin, so, no "virgin" birth is possible but inception of a virgin woman is entirely possible, did you ever A.I. a cow to induce pregnancy? ).
There are no contradictions only wrong premises. Have we a wrong premise concerning the "virgin" birth or is the "virgin" birth to be relegated to the "mystery" religions?
quote:
man being the blood of Him ties into the whole blood shed on the cross and the why of it. It also touches this whole mythology of the 'virgin' birth, giving it a notorious beginning outside of Christian adoption of the 'mysteries' so adapted to Catholicism and religion.
TN |
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2004 : 07:19:15
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Of a Virgin?
H1330 bethulah
BDB Definition:
1) virgin
Part of Speech: noun feminine
H1330 bethulah
beth-oo-law'
Strong’s Definition:
Feminine passive participle of an unused root meaning to separate; a virgin (from her privacy); sometimes (by continuation) a bride; also (figuratively) a city or state
Yasha’yahu [Isaiah] 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin [#5959] shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel [with you is the Chief].
H5959 almah
BDB Definition:
1) virgin, young woman
1a) of marriageable age
1b) maid or newly married
H5959 almah
al-maw'
Strong’s Defintion:
Feminine of H5958; a lass (as veiled or private)
L'ASS, n. A young woman; a girl. – Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language
Of the twenty-six times that we see the word “virgin” in the Old Covenant [Testament] only twice do we find the Hebrew word almah underlying it. Fully twenty-four times we find bethulah as the word for virgin.
Oh, and one more thought on this, Joseph, i.e. Yahu'caph means, Yahowah's Threshold; if Yahu'caph [Joseph] was not his earthly progenitor how could he be Yahowah's Threshold? Just a question.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 29 Nov 2004 07:26:07 |
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2004 : 09:17:13
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oneisraelite, for what it's worth, I also came up with the same conclusion concerning virgin vs. young woman a while back. Also, when reading the whole story in Isaiah it is plain to see that the young woman of the prophecy was Isaiah's own wife or concubine and it was the promise of the birth of her boy that was being offered to King Ahaz as a sign that YHWH would protect his kingdom from it's enemies. By the time the boy was able to know good from evil the problem would be solved. The seventh chapter in the Book of Isaiah begins by outlining the crisis that was confronting the Kingdom of Judah. Around the year 732 B.C.E., the House of David was facing imminent destruction at the hands of two warring kingdoms: the Northern Kingdom of Israel, led by King Peqah, and the Kingdom of Syria (Aram), led by King Retsin. These two armies had besieged Jerusalem. Isaiah states that the House of David and King Ahaz were deeply afraid. Isaiah reassured King Ahaz that divine protection was at hand and that their deliverance was assured, and these two hostile armies would fail in their attempt to defeat Jerusalem. 2 Kings 15:29-30 and 2 Kings 16:9, confirm that this prophecy was fulfilled when these two kings were assassinated.
BK
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Edited by - BatKol on 29 Nov 2004 09:24:14 |
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2004 : 09:06:30
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Some random thoughts for all to consider.
We find it interesting that the two accounts of this “virgin” birth do not, apparently, match. In Mattith’yahu [Matthew] we see it recounted that the angel [messenger] came to Yahu’caph [Joseph]:
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of Yahowah appeared unto him in a dream…
…while in Luke this messenger of Yahowah came to Meriyam [Mary]: And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, Yahowah is with thee: blessed [spoken of highly] art thou among women.
Also there seems to be only one witness that Yahu’caph [Joseph] and Meriyam [Mary] went to Bethlehem to be enrolled [not taxed], though admittedly this enrollment was, in all probability, for the purpose of taxation, since the caesar had put out a decree, apparently for the first time, that “all the world should be taxed [H583]”.
G583 apographo
Thayer Definition:
1) to write off, copy (from some pattern)
2) to enter in a register or records
2a) spec. to enter in public records the names of men, their property and income
2b) to enroll
ENROLL, v.t.
1. To write in a roll or register; to insert a name or enter in a list or catalogue; as, men are enrolled for service.
2. To record; to insert in records; to leave in writing.
3. To wrap; to involve
We see from this that these two people, Yahu’caph and Meriyam may have not yet been “enrolled” as citizens, i.e. taxable entities. This might, in an allegorical sense, make them both “virgins”, that is to say they had not yet been screwed, as it were, by the Roman empire. Further, there is no evidence that they ever actually did enroll!
Also, if we look at this “virgin” in a Scriptural sense, rather than a secular sense, perhaps we may find something altogether different. For example:
1Corinthians 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord…
We see here that a virgin is defined, by Shaul, as unmarried…which of course agrees with the prophesy found at Yasha’yahu [Isaiah] 7:14, since the word used in that verse is ‘almah, which is the feminine of ‘elem, which simply means, “young man”. Brown-Driver-Briggs’ Hebrew Definitions tells us that this can be a “maid” [or maiden] and Dr Strong tells us that it is a “lass (as veiled or private)”.
MA'IDEN, n. 1. An unmarried woman, or a young unmarried woman…
L'ASS, n. A young woman; a girl.
The things we see in common between bethulah and ‘almah [See previous post] are the common denominator, private/privacy. Being “private” can mean…
PRI'VATE, a. [L. privatus, from privo, to bereave, properly to strip or separate; privus, singular, several, peculiar to one's self, that is, separate; rapio, diripio, eripio; privo for perivo or berivo.] 4. Not publicly known... 5. Not invested with public office... 6. Individual; personal; in contradistinction from public or national...
CONTRADISTINCT, a. Distinguished by opposite qualities.
This, of course, takes us back to the possibility that they were both “virgins” to the STATE, i.e. they were not "married" [unmarried] by the STATE, neither were they "married" to the STATE and hence were “not invested with [the] public office” of PERSON.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 30 Nov 2004 09:12:21 |
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2004 : 13:38:01
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quote:
Some random thoughts for all to consider.
We find it interesting that the two accounts of this “virgin” birth do not, apparently, match.
I have noticed this too. Line up the resurrection accounts in the Gospels and you will see much worse.
quote:
Also there seems to be only one witness that Yahu’caph [Joseph] and Meriyam [Mary] went to Bethlehem to be enrolled [not taxed], though admittedly this enrollment was, in all probability, for the purpose of taxation, since the caesar had put out a decree, apparently for the first time, that “all the world should be taxed [H583]”.
We see from this that these two people, Yahu’caph and Meriyam may have not yet been “enrolled” as citizens, i.e. taxable entities.
Nice observation. Either way Rome was the occupational GOVT in that region and their complience (sp?)was probably manditory... or else. 
quote:
This might, in an allegorical sense, make them both “virgins”, that is to say they had not yet been screwed, as it were, by the Roman empire.
LOL. I like the way you put it.
quote:
Also, if we look at this “virgin” in a Scriptural sense, rather than a secular sense, perhaps we may find something altogether different. For example:
1Corinthians 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord…
We see here that a virgin is defined, by Shaul, as unmarried…which of course agrees with the prophesy found at Yasha’yahu [Isaiah] 7:14, since the word used in that verse is ‘almah, which is the feminine of ‘elem, which simply means, “young man”. Brown-Driver-Briggs’ Hebrew Definitions tells us that this can be a “maid” [or maiden] and Dr Strong tells us that it is a “lass (as veiled or private)”.
MA'IDEN, n. 1. An unmarried woman, or a young unmarried woman…
L'ASS, n. A young woman; a girl.
The things we see in common between bethulah and ‘almah [See previous post] are the common denominator, private/privacy. Being “private” can mean…
PRI'VATE, a. [L. privatus, from privo, to bereave, properly to strip or separate; privus, singular, several, peculiar to one's self, that is, separate; rapio, diripio, eripio; privo for perivo or berivo.] 4. Not publicly known... 5. Not invested with public office... 6. Individual; personal; in contradistinction from public or national...
CONTRADISTINCT, a. Distinguished by opposite qualities.
This, of course, takes us back to the possibility that they were both “virgins” to the STATE, i.e. they were not "married" [unmarried] by the STATE, neither were they "married" to the STATE and hence were “not invested with [the] public office” of PERSON.
There are so many ways to look at things that all I see anymore is "God". Understanding depends on set and setting, personal context, and of course the Will of YHWH. I like the Bible for it's allegory and you have made a very interesting connection with the above observation.
Peace to you my friends.
BK |
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2004 : 05:15:56
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Greetings and salutations in the name of the King,
Peace be unto the house.
And of course, with your last remark, that takes us right back to this: H430 'elohiym el-o-heem'; ...gods in the ordinary sense... Without a true understanding of this word, as we have said before, all conversation falls flat on the floor.
Deuteronomy 10:17 For Yahowah[#H3068] your 'Elohiym[#H430] is 'Elohiym[#H430] of 'elohiym[#H430], and Lord[#H113] of lords[#H113], a great 'El[#H410 shortend from #H352], powerful, and awsome...
H430 'elohiym, 1a) ruler(s)... Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Defintions
H113 adon, ...BDB/Strong’s Number: from an unused root (meaning to rule)
H352 'ayil, ...specifically a chief (politically)... - Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible
Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate[#G1413], the King of kings, and Lord of lords...
G1413 dunastes, a ruler or officer... - Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible
RU'LER, n. 1. One that governs, whether emperor, king, pope or governor...2. One that makes or executes laws in a limited or free government. - Webster's 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language
Ye cannot drink the cup of Yahowah, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of Yahowah's table, and of the table of devils.
...as for me and my house, we will serve YaHoWaH[#H3068].
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 01 Dec 2004 05:51:48 |
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2004 : 07:35:24
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Then again, they could have been going to Bethlehem for an entirely different enrollment...
“The year 2 BC marked the 25th anniversary of Caesar Augustus’s rule and the 750th anniversary of the founding of Rome. Huge celebrations were planned. The whole empire was at peace. The doors of the temple of Janus were closed for only the third time in Roman history. To honor their emperor, the people were to rise as one and name him pater patriae, or Father of the Country. This enrollment, described in the Book of Luke, which brought Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem, has always been a mystery since no regular census occurred at this time. But the pater patriae enrollment fits perfectly.” – The Star of Bethlehem by Crag Chester, Imprimis D/96 Hillsdale College
[Thanks go to Gregory of His Holy Church for finding this one.]
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2004 : 10:33:56
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quote:
Greetings and salutations in the name of the King,
Peace be unto the house.
And of course, with your last remark, that takes us right back to this: H430 'elohiym el-o-heem'; ...gods in the ordinary sense... Without a true understanding of this word, as we have said before, all conversation falls flat on the floor.
Greetings to you and yours. I agree we need to have a proper understanding of the word H430. To do this we need to study how the word is used in the Bible. Having said that, can you provide even one example where the word H430 is used in a context which means non-Israelite earthly ruler? From my studies the only time this word is ever used when referring to men is when it is used to address Israelites in the context of a ruling position in the community (which was dismantled until the return back to the promised land, so says the Bible).
Hebrew is a very exact language and we would need to find the word H430 used in a context which supports your assertion. Given the theologies of Samuel, Daniel and Paul I think this proof is key.
Hope this post find you all warm and dry.
BK
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Robert-James
Advanced Member
uSA
353 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2004 : 14:32:21
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| Try the word 'gods', #430 in Strongs. Way too many to list here. |
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2004 : 15:45:34
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quote:
Robert-James said: Try the word 'gods', #430 in Strongs. Way too many to list here.
Hello Robert-James. You have already agreed with me on this topic.
Rewind to Logic 101 thread...Posted - Jun 27 2004 : 06:37:26 AM
Robert-James: there must be over one hundred times the word elohim is used for anything BUT a physical Israelite. Just look up the word Gods, or gods, in Strong's concordance. #430 in hebrew.
Steve: ....we have covered this point in detail already.....the topic has boiled down to this essential, all important point.
Find us even one example in Scripture where the word #430 is used to describe a flesh and blood, non-Israelite ruler.
Until we can find this evidence, to speculate that #430 can be used to define a flesh and blood, non-Israelite ruler is like speculating over the temperature of the make-believe water in a mirage.
Robert-James said: Ah, now I get it. Your correct.
Exodus 21:6 and 22:8-9 the word judge is elohim, and it references Israelite judges. Agreed.
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Robert-James
Advanced Member
uSA
353 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2004 : 16:53:47
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Those who live in the past, live with shadows.
Try gods, as there are many examples where #430 in plural form, describes what you say dosen't exist in scripture.
If one is sincere in questioning, #430 plural has numerous examples to accenctuate oneisraelite's point of viewing the word 'elohim'.
Comprende?
When one ARGUES in a modern COURT, one loses his standing and gives up his Peace and jurisdiction.
Same thing happens in relationships.
Without arguement, the paleo-hebrew word elohim in the plural especially, translated into American-English as used in the KJV...many times re-presents gods, and these gods have nothing and are nothing, but figments of one's imagination.
Your question to the ecclesia was, "show me once". I only hoped to point out that many times "gods" in Strongs Concordance has nothing to do with Israelite judges. This is a given, for those who care to look.
As a point of fact, I mentioned two times elohim references Israelites. Did someone ASSUME I meant the word 'gods'?
That is not my problem.
Rather than compete with El-Elyon's Spirit offspring, take the competitive spirit to those judges keeping score...or is that JUDGES?
At that time, one will learn not to ARGUE.
BTW, Yahushuah, son of Yoseph, is his name. Place your own vowels.
Now, the son of David is another story. Yediadiah.
The son of Yoseph was sold unto slavery by his brethern, as was Yahushuah. And they both learned how to forgive. Yoseph's Egyptian name meant, 'saviour of the world'. What a paradox?
Yahushuah would not accept the title-name...son of David, in his earthly walk. He knew better.
Psalm 110.
In the septuagint, the prophetic name Nathan gave David's son was Jedi. Cute eh?
Sol-Om-On never wore that name, never.
So what are we looking for? Scoring points within the ecclesia or Truth? |
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2004 : 19:06:29
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quote:
Robert-James said: If one is sincere in questioning, #430 plural has numerous examples to accenctuate oneisraelite's point of viewing the word 'elohim'. Comprende?
Conjecture and opinion aside. The challenge still stands. Show me one example where the word Elohim H430 is used in scripture to address a flesh and blood non-Israelite ruler.... Comprende?
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2004 : 02:39:22
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Greetings and salutations in the name of the King, Steven:
Peace be unto the house.
quote:
Originally posted by BatKol
Conjecture and opinion aside. The challenge still stands. Show me one example where the word Elohim H430 is used in scripture to address a flesh and blood non-Israelite ruler.... Comprende?
You state, "show me one example"; if I can find for you an example, then what?
Comprende? Does the example have to be in Spanish? LOL
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2004 : 07:28:47
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Greetings brother Robert and family,
Peace be to you all as well.
quote:
You state, "show me one example"; if I can find for you an example, then what?
Then I can understand your reasoning concerning the first commandment with more clarity. Without an example of H430 being applied to an non-Israelite earthly ruler we have noting to support the assertion that the word could be defined in such a term.
quote:
Comprende? Does the example have to be in Spanish? LOL
LOL. I prefer English. I was just repeating R/J's word back to him in the post above.
Hope this finds you all well.
Steve
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
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Posted - 07 Dec 2004 : 08:27:46
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Greetings and salutations in the name of the King, Steven:
Peace be unto the house.
karath lo' beriyth 'elohiym
Exodus 23:32 Thou shalt make no covenant [H1285] with them, nor with their ‘elohiym. [H430]
There are a lot of blanks filled in "for our understanding" in that translation of those four Hebrew words. I see it as “make no covenant [with their] ‘elohiym", but either way...
H1285 beriyth
BDB Definition:
1) covenant, alliance, pledge
1a) between men
1a1) treaty, alliance, league (man to man)
1a2) constitution, ordinance (monarch to subjects)
1a3) agreement, pledge (man to man)…
COVENANT, n. [L, to come; a coming together; a meeting or agreement of minds.] 1. A mutual consent or agreement of two or more persons, to do or to forbear some act or thing; a contract; stipulation.
This, at least, shows that the "non-Yisra’elite ‘elohiym", translated “gods”, are flesh and blood and not “carved images”, for there can be no “meeting or agreement of the minds” with totem poles and such.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
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His name is not Yahushua
