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Saint Kitts and Nevis
114 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jun 2002 : 13:03:12
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Did you know that there is no command in scripture saying that a believer in Christ must attend a church building in order to worship God? This is true. Also, there are no examples of any follower of Christ going to a church building to worship God. They worshipped God by their obedience to Him in every area of life, every day of their lives. They did not worship Him by giving only one hour of their time every week to some temple made with hands.
A "Church" is basically a temple made with hands. Does God dwell in temples made with hands? Scripture tells us:
Acts 7:48, "Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands;"
Acts 17:24, "God...dwelleth not in temples made with hands;"
Keep in mind that the real question we seek to ask is not whether we are to worship, but how we are to worship. Perhaps the question is also where we are to do that. Are we able to do these things only in a building whose mortgage payments are being paid by a State-incorporated ecclesiastical institution, or may we obey them in our homes, or in a context of decentralized, informal, voluntary gatherings? The question before us is, need we "attend church?" Need we hear the "sermons" of special priests in order to obey the Biblical commands to exhort one another and discuss the Scriptures? Can we obey these commands if we only "attend church"?
Hebrews 10:25 gives a straightforward command: Do not forsake the gathering together of ourselves, and exhort one another. It would seem, then, that the question, "Is it our moral obligation to attend church?" receives a fairly straightforward answer: Of course! How, then, can somebody assert that one should not "attend Church"?
To download the entire article from Christ's Lawful Assembly, click the blue floppy disc icon below:
 Why Believers should not attend "Church"
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Shiloh
Senior Member
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2002 : 03:57:32
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Thank you for posting this article. I will also add are you hearing in the "church" the "true" Jesus (Yeshua)? I am giving a link below (SOMETHING I HATE PEOPLE DOING, if they have not researched all the information to make sure it is accurate and honest). I have recently studied and investigated (kicked the tires abit) everything stated on this website. It is fully documented and I fully endorse everyword stated there.
Learn how the "Christian church" has accepted, adapted and now flaunts the worship of the Sun God in yearly traditions of men within the walls of the "church"
Learn why Christians should not herold in "Easter" "Christmas" or "Sunday rest".
Warning the following site is not intended for lights reading or a history lesson. If you do not wish to change your life or ways to comply with the Bible do not go there to your own distruction. You are held accountable for things that you know are right, but does not act on.
www.toolong.com
Once there you can order 3 books (Too Long in the Sun and recieve an free video... I personally recommend the hour length and not the two hour.)
I in no way am connected with Too Long In the Sun, www.toolong.com or Richard Rives (the author/ researcher). I have nothing to gain (money wise) from your going to this site. I gain nothing with the exception of helping people see the occultic practices in the Church and removing themselves from them for the Glory of God.
With that said, I urge you strongly to delve into this site and Richard Rives research. I urge you to read, cross examine all his findings, try to debunk his claims and if you can not do so to live according to a life that brings honor to our Heavenly Father knowing that the knowledge of truth is the knowledge of Christ.
"If you love me you will keep my commandments"... "Examine yourself to see if you are in the faith"... "Faith without works is dead"... BY GRACE are ye saved through faith.
Shiloh
(Sorry, I have not been present and posting as of lately. I have been seeing an out pouring of faith in my local circles and have been working to see it grow. Blessed is the Father who gave his only Son to die for us so that as many as believe might know that they have eternal life through the Son.)
Shiloh |
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Cowboy
Regular Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2002 : 08:35:33
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There is no command to meet in a formal building in a formal way.
However there is indication of local assemblies meeting together.
"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and
so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."
"And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their
meat with gladness and singleness of heart,"
So the Church isn't a building but a group of people.
JN 17:17 |
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rdm
Regular Member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2002 : 02:31:34
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I'd like to see discussion of the alternative to "churches" as they exist today. If church is not a place we should be meeting with fellow believers...what would the alternative look like?
Since the churches are where most people who are seeking to follow God's Word are, is this where we need to start? What if we don't have anyone in our area of like-mind what is our alternative? After all, we all need fellowship.
There is a very big need for extensive teaching for "de-churching" people. Where is the plan for leading believers back into a fellowship that more accurately reflects "ecclesia" over "church"? I'd be very interested in such an educational program. We need a road map of how to get where most believers are to where we should be.
I've heard of men who have approached their Pastor and in their bible studies about the concept of ecclessia. They did it in a loving and non-confrontational manner and ended up teaching a class on what the ecclesia is. When the idea is presented in love and not an attack against the "church" any sincere church leader will see it as a more complete expression of what God intended. When it is done right, you should be able to get the full support of the Pastor/Church Leader behind you from what I've seen.
What pastor wouldn't be intrigued by expanding the idea of "church" into a community outreach/reformational concept? After all, what is the "ecclessia"? Even a self-centered Pastor could be sold on the concept of ecclesia over church if done in the right way. After all, if it expanded their influence and outreach why would they object?
Of course it is tougher when you are dealing with certain denominations, but non-denominational churches should be more fertile ground for true reformation.
There are many issues that could be brought up in showing them the "big picture". Besides all the fundamental issues like 501c3, etc. there are a few other things you can use to "sell" the idea.
For example, the German Baptists have an Assurance Program within their church. It is an INsurance alternative for their congregation because they don't believe in buying insurance. So the Assurance program is run by the church in regards to the members vehicles and homes. This should be an easy idea to sell a pastor...just imagine how much more money that would bring in and how much it would help their perishioners! This would put them into the state of mind of what other services they could provide as a COMMUNITY (ecclesia) to their memebers to be more obedient to God's Word and less double-minded.
Many churches already have debt management programs, but why not provide them with a more extensive debit validation/elimination program? There are many great programs helping people completely elminate debts without bankruptcy and "consolidation". Since the whole banking system is based on fraud it should be easy to teach the basics of usury and a just weight and measure and illustrate the fraud of the fractional-reserve debt money system we have today. After establishing the fraud, give people the alternative and get them out of debt-bondage. This service is invaluable!
The next step could be providing them with a concept of the Jural Socieites. This could include the many things that brings them closer to the true idea behind ecclessia (a seperated community unto God). If they started governing themselves as a body, and learned the nature of law and how the world's legal system works they could be shown the benefits of creating their own body politic and judicial system under God's Law.
These are only a few ideas and maybe I'm just dreaming, but if we don't start thinking a LOT bigger and putting together comprehenisve alternatives to the status quo, how are we ever going to get closer to the true ideal God intended for the "called out ones" (i.e. the ecclesia)?
Office of the Overseer for the Popular Assembly of Redemptive Dominion Missions, a corporation sole, and his successors.
http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/rdm |
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Cowboy
Regular Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2002 : 13:03:25
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Certainly we're not talking about buildings here, or the concept of meeting at all.
I assume what we're talking here is WHAT to do and HOW to do it once people do meet and gather.
The centerpiece has to be studying Gods word, else how would we go any further ....
JN 17:17 |
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rdm
Regular Member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2002 : 13:36:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Cowboy:
The centerpiece has to be studying Gods word, else how would we go any further ....
JN 17:17
Gaining simple head knowledge of God's word is certaining a beginning, but is it an end in itself? What purpose do we study His Word? That is the defining point of why we get together isn't it? Without a vision the people perish. What vision of the Kingdom of God are men given when they come together to study God's Word?
If we are to take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, how do accomplish this? If we are to equip the saints with the weapons and armor of the faith, where do we start and how far does it go? If Hebrews 11 provides examples of what successful active faith is, what did each of these men have that allowed them to win lands from the heathen, bring down kings, defeat tens of thousands with only hundreds, etc, etc, etc?
There is too much estrogen in the churches. The churches are no longer equipping men with the right weapons and armor, nor even leading them into the battles that truly matter. Christ came not only to save souls, but to win freedom from our enemies and from the hand of all who hate us (Luke 1). In other words, to be FREE, free inDEED. Not just in words, but in deeds. The gospel of the kingdom was 99% more than simple personal salvation. Personal salvation is only the birth of our faith. There is much for these new babies to learn and grow into as they strive for adulthood as new creations within the Kingdom of our Father.
Isn't it time we press on to maturity and start learning the extensive breadth and scope of the all-encompasing Kingdom of Heaven? Is there any neutrality between the Kingdom of Heaven and the kingdoms of this world? Can a son of God serve two masters, both God and the state? In the repentance process how far are we expected to go? When is it time to find the stones to knock down the Giants in the land, and pick up Goliath's sword?
God's Law requires restitution. There has been much blood spilt on this land. It is not the land of the free, and home of the brave...but a land free of righteousness and home to knaves. So how do we cure the ignornace of the knaves and restore righteousness to the land? What is the restitution required by God's Law? And how do we go about seeing the blood on the land paid for? How many of these type of questions do modern day teachers of God's Word have answers for?
The weapons being used against us are not carnal in nature, but artifices of law. What stops us from turning these weapons back against them besides a lack of knowledge and resolve? Our enemies have primarily been inside the churches, neutralizing men from their duty to care for their neighbor as they do themselves. They have taught us to give up this responsibility to the state and told us to obey this baal god. Well, Elijah had a solution to the baal priest problem. He slew thousands of them down at the river, one at a time.
Office of the Overseer for the Popular Assembly of Redemptive Dominion Missions, a corporation sole, and his successors.
http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/rdm |
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Manuel
Advanced Member
USA
762 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2002 : 22:58:36
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Greetings In Jesus, The Christ,
Signs of these times are evident, with overwelming evidence for those who have eyes to see and ears to listen. I bring to your attention the time when the CORPORATE EXECUTIVES where out of their ivory towers along with all their perfumed princesses singing the national anthem, and recently, cunning their servants that THEY where in charge of their meaning of God. In other words, without THEIR approval, God is only by their calling. Like other CHURCHES, they deceitfully strive to be mediators between His children.
Can you feel the evil ones desire? Continually attempting to hold the Key of knowledge?
I tell you, those false propheteers, are desperate, for they know they have but a short time left. Signs of the times...
Dios Con Vosotros,
Manuel
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Cowboy
Regular Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2002 : 14:35:04
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Certainly more than head knowledge is needed.
But as to what purpose it serves PS 119 and others answer that.
2 TIM 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
Proverbs 30:5
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
2 Tim 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in
righteousness:
JN 17:17 |
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rdm
Regular Member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2002 : 20:54:14
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Workman is working to build something. Building what?
What good is doctrine?
Reproof of what? What needs correction?
What good is instruction in righteousness if it is all self-centered and has no external application?
What good is quoting Scripture unless put to some use? Without an application is it profitable or just "vain bablings"?
So wouldn't the discussion benefit more by applying the Bible to repove what is false, correct wrongs, and build a picture of what righteousness truly looks like when it transforms lives and the institutions of men?
How many different kind of "neutralizing" thoughts have we inherited from churches and their religion? Maybe our biggest enemy is within our midst, and our true allies are the so-called "wicked" who are being used by God to chastise us for our apathy, laziness, and of our default and failure to carry out our calling?
If we were called to be "light", "salt", "kings", "priests", "seperate", "righteous", "a holy nation", etc., then were are the fruits? Wouldn't it be better to dwell on real-life examples of these things? Isn't this what encourages us when we get together? Why are we so starved to hear about people who have successfully applied these principles to their lives? Would there be more people around us interested in these things if they saw them reflected in our own lives? If we have had successes, what are we doing to follow these up and encourage others in them?
Office of the Overseer for the Popular Assembly of Redemptive Dominion Missions, a corporation sole, and his successors.
http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/rdm |
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Manuel
Advanced Member
USA
762 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2002 : 21:42:12
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Greetings In Jesus the Christ, our King,
Our Lord and saviour reminded us during His last words before He gave up His Spirit to the women before Him to not weep for Him, but weep for themselves, for there would come a time when they would wish who give suck for mountains to fall on them.
The Spirit has come upon many who realize that the women He was speaking of was that which suffered of the Jezebbel spirit. This also brings to attention the words of our Lord that there would come a time when women and children would rule over man.
Signs of these times alerts us of the "majority block" of women voters which acording to "census" outnumber man by quite a large number. We see the result of "A GREAT WHORE RIDING ON THE BEAST." Will the good women be able to separate themselves from that Jezebbel? Will the good man be able to
separate himself from that Jezebbel? Surely many will be "teasing the rulers" of these times and her servants to bloody their hands with the blood of His flock.
Dios Con Vosotros,
Manuel
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Cowboy
Regular Member
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2002 : 09:52:41
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rdm - Gods word is self explanetory.
further explaination on my comments, which you seem to want to misapply, in your reply.
quote:
Originally posted by Cowboy:
Certainly more than head knowledge is needed.
But as to what purpose it serves PS 119 and others answer that.
2 TIM 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
Workman, in the context is studying Gods word.
Why, ? so he can RIGHTLY divide.
Proverbs 30:5
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
2 Tim 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in
righteousness:
Again, in context REPROOF of flase doctrine, evil..
JN 17:17
You say;
What good is Doctrine ? well it must be some good since Gods tells us to STUDY it .
What good is quoting scripture ? well it must be of some good since God tell us to study it, and all through scripture I see people (David, Paul, Peter, Jesus) quoting it.
JN 17:17 |
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SilkPurse
Occasional Poster
New Zealand
6 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2002 : 19:23:26
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Concerning the creation we can see the sun was created on the fourth day thus the days spoken of in terms of creation are not the days of an earth rotation. This can be extended by many passages in the Bible.
For example:
And God said let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light that it was good and divided the light from the darkness. Gen 1: 3 - 4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. John 1: 4 - 5
Also consider Jesus saying in Rev 22:16 "I am the root and offspring of David and the bright and morning star."
It is also said that the wicked shall not enter the Lord's rest and it is well known that the Lord rested on the seventh day. In the sixth day of creation man was made in the image of God. It is my opinion that the Lord is working in us to make us into His image, that is to make us Christ like, and that this is indeed the sixth day.
So let us pray that God might make us lights to shine in the darkness.
SilkPurse |
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source
Senior Member
Canada
65 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2004 : 18:57:30
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The temple of God for woership is with you wherever you go.
Praise YHWH for the provision of such a holy place!
Corinthians 3:16-17 |
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jaybird
Junior Member
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2005 : 15:29:53
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| Good post, rdm! I am currently a member of an ecclesia assembly here in Phoenix. We are about 30 members now and meet weekly to study the scriptures( especially the original Greek translation). Here are some of the "exs": 3-Baptists( the founder, Chuck Carlson, was a deacon),2 Lutherans, 2 Mormons(myself included) and one felon who came to Christ in prison and has a mission to those inmates currently. Talk about a diverse group. Of course there are wives and families included in the mix. We also like to hold quiet vigils at congregations that believe Christ would allow modern-day Israel and " born-again christians" like "dubya" to stage a war. We spend a great deal of time studying His Word, but know that the church is we in the congregation and the temple is the spiritual home we build within these bodies of clay we house temporarily. I love the Lord and therfore I must witness and evidence that love by the conduct of my daily walk. Praise God. I seek edification from this forum and a chance for free expression. Peace unto you all; jaybird |
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Should Believers attend "Church"?
