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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2003 :  06:44:43  Show Profile
This is one of my favorite subjects, as it affects all aspects of our Spiritual Life. It is the great Dark Side that attaches to each Living Soul, just as the Physical Body. It is the manifestation of the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" -- because it always acts on, and is based in -- DUALITY.

Duality is that aspect of our perception (illusion, actually) that makes one principle into two. In our lives, it manifests as PREFERENCE and PREJUDICE. Were we to follow our Creator's will, we would have NO Preferences nor Prejudices -- for or against ANYTHING. But the EGO requires food to exist, and these are its main course -- always weighing one side against the other, always trying to decide in favor of one thing over the other. Were we to follow our Creator's guidance, there would be no need to weigh anything, because His Way is always the Perfect Solution to any problem before us -- were we only eager enough to hear His Still, Small Voice within our hearts. That Voice is also known as Conscience.

Be Well,
Doer

Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2003 :  19:53:15  Show Profile
Brother, a few days ago I was reading a little book about maxims of law. Out of all the many quotes, there was one excerpt truly of His Light, In His Law. After all
John 1:1-2: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

"In a legitimate marriage, His Children always follow the condition of The Father.
However, with animals, the offspring follow the condition of the mother."

Dios con vosotros,
Manuel

Edited by - Manuel on 11 Jan 2003 19:55:49
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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2003 :  00:00:32  Show Profile
Manuel,

You bring up an extraodinary insight. In a good marriage -- one based on the Principles given us by our Creator -- the mother nurtures the child's body, then gives it with joy to the father so that he can nurture its Soul. This is supposed to occur at about the age of 2-3.

However, most marriages are not based on the Principles of our Creator, but on the selfish needs of the Ego. Such marriages are therefore controlled by the Laws of the Lower Nature -- which is of the animal.

So the marriage is "upside down" in terms of rule. The female "runs the roost" is such relationships, because the male is not strong enough to stand up to her -- for what is RIGHT. You see, the male is weak for his own Ego support via validation through the female body -- SEX.

This is the sad plight of the vast majority of "relationships" today. And so we have the "Hell on Earth" that we now see -- with violence in every school and at every corner, government out of control, rampant business cycles, and so forth. Because the FEMALE is out of control -- who rules most relationships.

The MALE is animal based, is of the Ego nature.
The MAN is Spiritual-based, is of the Godly nature.
The FEMALE is animal based, is of the Ego nature.
The WOMAN is Spiritual-based, is of the Godly nature.

What this world desperately NEEDS, is for the MALES to become REAL MEN, and for the FEMALES to become REAL WOMEN. This can only be done by DOING WHAT IS RIGHT at all times -- instead of doing what "feels good," or doing what is "convenient." And this is done by cleaving to the Source of our Life -- Our Creator -- and by listening to His Still, Small Voice above the "din of the maddening crowd."

Be Well,
Doer

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Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2003 :  23:19:48  Show Profile
Doer,
Our Lord saith to be of good cheer and fear not.
Gen 1:27 "So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."


His servant, and His slave,
Manuel
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Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2003 :  21:44:59  Show Profile
Ecclesiastes 7: 25-29
"So I turned my mind to understand, to investigate and to search out wisdom and the scheme of things and to understand the stupidity of wickedness and the madness of folly; I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare; "Look," says the Teacher, "this is what I have discovered:
"Adding one thing to another to discover the scheme of things- while I was still searching but not finding- I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all; This only have I found:
God made mankind upright, but men have gone in search of many schemes."

Revelation 2:20-21
"Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling."

Dios Con Vosotros,
Manuel

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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2003 :  01:21:00  Show Profile
Manuel,

You bring up another interesting point. The Unwashed Female is indeed a snare. But she is a snare only to the weak [animal] MALE looking to validate his failing EGO self -- as opposed to the [Spiritual] MAN who gets his validation from his Creator. Sex for [animal] MALES is not so much for pleasure, as it to feed the ever-hungry EGO. The food of EGO is pride, and the acceptance of the MALE by the FEMALE feeds that pride directly through the lower parts.

Because the FEMALE is passive by nature, it is indeed rare to find a true [Spiritual] WOMAN. "The Kindom of Heaven is taken by violence" -- which is to say, by effort. So the active aspect of the [Spiritual] MAN is more suited to this endeavor. The WOMAN was created, after all, to be a "helpmate" -- and not as the leader. This is the rightful Sacred Duty of the MAN. A True WOMAN appreciates the MAN's leadership and submits to it, for she knows that its ultimate source is from their Creator.

Doer
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DanielJacob
Advanced Member

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2003 :  12:55:55  Show Profile  Visit DanielJacob's Homepage
This seemed like the most likely thread for my post.

Brothers, I need your help:

I have come upon the horns of a dilemma, and I need some help with some questions that are beginning to permeate my mind. Nearly ten years ago I started my walk of Babylon. I did those things that were necessary to eliminate the attachments to the world. I got rid of my drivers license, auto registration, bank accounts, credit cards, etc. I did these things because I sincerely believed that it was necessary in order to break the hold of the world and to be able to stand before our Lord one day having done what I believed is His commandments. At first it was not that much of problem, but as this world is prone to tighten the screws I have found it increasing difficult to interact in even the most rudimentary necessities of life in order to survive. I must rely on those that are still attached to the world more and more. Brothers…doubt that I have done the right thing has taken hold of me.

The more I study; the more I read; the more confused I am becoming. I look about me and see those that have all the attachments of the world and are sincere in their love for the Christ. Their life somehow seems much more happy than mine. Are they delusional or am I? The Christ told us to take upon us His burden, that it was light and not burdensome, but brothers, I have to be honest, they are having much fewer problems than I am it seems. Are we right and all of them wrong? How can this be? I read scripture and it tells me that there will be a time when those that are washed in the blood of the Lamb will stand before the throne, before the Lamb, from all nations, tongues, and peoples, in a multitude that no man could number. Are these only those that have given up all their physical attachments to the world? How can that be? Even on these forums and others I see division upon the word and how it is read and what it means. We are told that our Father is not the Father of confusion and yet we have so many differing beliefs and all sincerely claiming their love for our Father and His son, the Christ. We are told that we can expect to be persecuted, but does that mean that we are to bring it upon ourselves if it can be avoided? What of the Sabbath? Is it Sunday, the first day of the week, or Saturday, the seventh day of the week? Or is it just one day in seven? Or is it every day since Christ? I have heard all of these positions put forward and all with convincing conviction.

May our Heavenly Father guide your replies.
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2003 :  16:41:07  Show Profile
My dear Brother,

I don't know where to start in trying to answer your questions, but I too have had some of the same conflicts. Slowly, ever so slowly I am beginning to understand. Elimiating attachments to the things of the world, doesn't mean going without. It is getting rid of any feelings or desires toward those things. The Good Lord has blessed me with the care taking of quite a few things. My neighbors think I am monetarily well off. But, the truth of the matter is I am spiritually well off. If I should loose access to all that I have, it would not matter, because it wasn't mine in the first place. The excitement I experience over obtaining some new thing is not from it being mine, but from the Lord trusting to take care of yet another thing.

I still have a driver's license, but right now it is only for convenience, until I can learn the way to live without it. Two of my vehicles still have state issued license plates. The 3rd does not. Within 2 months the plates will come off of the other 2. It is a slow process of change for me. But, I am older and therefore slower.

Yes, there are many claiming the Way. My first question to each of them as they come to my door to try to persuade me to join them is, "Is your church a 501c3 corporation?" Some do not understand the question and I have to rephrase it, "Is your church a non-profit corporation?". Everyone of them so far has answered, yes. Then my reply is, "Well, then the STATE is the head authority of your church. I will only go to a church where G-d is the head authority. Good day!"

What is the Sabbath? When you understand what it is under the Law of our Lord, then you will know the answer to that question. Can you find the word Sunday in the scriptures? Can you find the name of any day of the week, as we use them, in the scriptures? Is there any day of the week when we shouldn't be worshiping G-d and Jesus, first and foremost?

I am afraid I can't give you much in the way of answers, but I can hope to guide you by asking appropriate questions for you to find the answers to.

Feel free to contact me by private message if you desire a more direct communication avenue.

Be of good cheer and May the Lord watch over you,

Lewis
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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2003 :  17:03:23  Show Profile
Brother Daniel, many are called and few chosen. Those chosen {before the foundation of the world} will "prove it", and be Overcomers. The psalmist was frustrated when he saw the unrighteous prosper in the normal worldly idea of prosperity. Till he considered their end. Most all modern christians are eating of a great deception. The Way of the Stake {cross} leads to death of self. Not many takers when the true message is preached. Yahushua's own family thought He was 'besides himself'. Most all had no idea what he was talking about. They called Him a drunk, glutton, of the devil, a deceiver, ad nausem. Look and see your Older Brother, Standing as Truth against the whole world. And He won, for He is the truth. There is not a short cut to Zion. Want to go? They will treat you the same, be a partaker of His glory? Partake of His suffering first. This seperates the Sons from the pretenders. I'd say, you are right on course, in the Way, heading home. You have entered into the baptism of Fire, and only the flesh can burn. And I do know it hurts, hurts so bad. It was not a cake walk for Yahushua, he even praying for discernment at the very end. The sabbath day {weekly} is on the seventh day from the first day of the spring equinox. {Wednesday of this year} But the devil and doubt are in the details, if you know what I mean.
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Walter
Advanced Member

USA
144 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2003 :  18:27:04  Show Profile  Visit Walter's Homepage
Robert-James, I also am very frustrated seeing so many enmeshed in the "web" of Babylon and so uninterested in learning about it much less geting out, but who "love the Lord." Yet, I can't convince myself that they really do love the one true God, because, if they did they would love truth. Jesus is Truth, and if they loved Jesus they would love discovery. "Truth" in the Greek is composed of "a" - not - and "lanthano" - to be hid. Loving truth means one loves to un-hide things. Most people don't get a ****.

I'm not sure whether we must never have any trapping of Babylon or not; I know it's very hard to get along without them, and I can't blame anyone who holds onto these things to keep life easy - and I have some. But I can complain if they don't care about Truth.

I don't know what to do for myself, much less guide you. I believe we need to ask the Holy Spirit for guidance. ("God" are three, you know. Even Satan has a counterfeit father-son team.)

Btw, I believe the first day of the year is a Sabbath, which can be shown by the commands for Passover & Pentecost, and some other scriptures.

Walter
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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2003 :  20:16:44  Show Profile
Daniel,

These are really great insights from Lewis and Robert. Remember that, in all things, your FAITH is constantly being tested. No, this is not some cruel game that our Creator has devised for us. It is only the consequence of being born into corruption (sin). It is only the means of our SALVATION.

THE PROBLEM, however, is to discern between what our EGO is telling us, versus what our SPIRIT is telling us (the Spirit of the Holy Comforter -- as manifested by our CONSCIENCE). I can tell you from painful experience, that this is our greatest challenge in Life.

Beginning in my early 20s, for about a decade, I seemed to be making great strides in my Spiritual growth. I was studying and meditating (praying) daily. I was regularly arriving at profound insights. This gave me a great deal of personal confidence, and increased my influence with others. Then came a fateful day. I was being tested, unbeknownst to me. And I failed my Creator. I fell very far, before recovering my Spiritual sanity. It was at the hands of a female (surprise! surprise!) -- a beautiful Russian female. She was very good at nurturing my EGO. Yet, even though I saw intellectually what was happening, I could not stop it on a practical level. Such is the power that the EGO has over us.

But we must understand that the power of the EGO comes from US! It is our very own Spiritual Power that was given to us as our birthright, for the purpose of enlightenment and for good. We are deceived into giving up our heritage (the Spiritual Light) to our dark EGO -- which is the instrument of the Lower World. This, the EGO does by appealing to our pride. Pride is the very food of the EGO. It cannot exist for one second, without it. And so the many references to the evils of pride in the Bible.

I have since come to understand that there is ONLY ONE WAY to overcome the influence of the EGO. The vast majority of us would do well to reduce its influence by even 10%. To eliminate it completely, would be to become totally pure -- to be able to “walk on water.” As far as I know, only One Guy from Nazareth was able to do that (although there are references made to others, such as Melchesedec and Elijah.)

To overcome the influence of the EGO, we must be TOTALLY SILENT. This is mainly a reference to the mind, or intellect. You see, the intellect is mostly a tool of the EGO. It COULD be a tool for good, but we have, by and large, given up its control to the EGO. There it is used to weigh one outcome over another, to compare our situation with someone else’s, to use preference and prejudice in arriving at DECISIONS. So “we” DECIDE to do one thing or another, unconscious of the fact that it is really our EGO that is making these decisions for us. This is why we are living in misery, suffering, dissatisfaction and unfulfillment.

So we must STILL THE MIND. We must, instead, LISTEN. We must LISTEN to the Voice of the Shepherd, calling us to follow His Way. You see, there is a glorious, completely fulfilling life awaiting us, so long as we but follow The Path. But to do that, we must STOP MAKING DECISIONS! This is not to mean that we cannot make certain plans, that we cannot decide to brush our teeth, or to make “decisions” relating to the course of ordinary life. It means, however, that we should not “decide” to use one strategy or another to become “holy.” Instead, we must SEE the path ahead of us, and “put one foot in front of the other,” not considering consequences where Truth is involved. Doors open. We must go through them. We know intuitively, when a certain action is called for. We know, because it flows effortlessly. We know, because the resultant outcome is PERFECT, and we understand that “we” had nothing to do with it. We were “only following orders.”

Daniel, your problem is very obvious. You have become attached to your actions, EXPECTING a certain outcome. This is the EGO at work, feeding on your pride in accomplishment -- feeding on your pride in making decisions. That is why it feels so unfulfilling. That is why it is so empty -- because there is no substance in pride. There is no Spiritual reality to it.

So do not be so focused on extricating yourself from Caesar. Be focused on LISTENING for instructions to find The Way -- The Way Back HOME. In this manner, you will not be ATTACHED to the means, whatever they may be at the time. We must live in the world. To do that, we must use commerce to transact daily affairs. If you are fortunate to have your own land and can make a living from it, then you do not need Caesar. But the vast majority of us are not in this position, so we must find other means FOR THE TIME BEING. Therefore, I give Caesar his due. It is a very imperfect system, but it has its uses. Just do not be attached to it, nor to its benefits.

That is the secret -- “to be in the World, but not of it.” This only means that we MAINTAIN FOCUS on the end, instead of on the MEANS toward that end. Money is a means toward that end. Almost everyone needs money. Yet it is only a means. To be focused on money, is to lose sight of the Ultimate Goal. Only have the PROPER FOCUS. This is also called FAITH. Then the means will be shown to you. It is so very simple. Do not complicate it with your EGO!

Daniel, your name means, “God is my Judge.” That is a very great name to live up to. I have taken that name for myself, because of its power. Remember that Daniel’s FAITH was tested in the lion’s den. So you have been blessed. Therefore, let your name be your constant guide, and your empowerment.

Be Well,
Doer
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Caleb
Advanced Member

Philippines
209 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2003 :  20:22:32  Show Profile
Dear Brother Daniel,

One thing I have learned in the past year is that we must all go through the wilderness in order to get to the promised land. For some this takes 40 days while others take up to 40 years. The awareness of our need to come out of Babylon that you have had for ten years was only awoken in me about two years ago. But it took another year for me to resolve to take any real action. At that point my time in the wilderness began, as everyone I knew including my own wife told me I was wrong or nuts. Now after over a year, I finally have a sense that I am emerging from this wilderness experience.

Had I learned all this ten years ago, then today I would not have a State-registered marriage along with three State-registered children and a State-registered house and van and..... How much simpler it would have been to avoid these entanglements had I known the truth years earlier. I envy you and others who were the "early risers", and I am also grateful for the guidance and example you have offered myself and others whom the Father is raising up at this late hour.

But I now understand what Yahshua meant when he said "the last shall be first and the first, last". Your perseverance has made things easier for me. You have already blazed the trail, and the hardest work has been done. It may be discouraging to look behind you and find so few following right now, but I believe that this situation will start to change very soon. Then those like me, whom the Father has chosen, will catch up to you quickly and some will even surpass you. It may not seem fair, but this is how the kingdom works. I think it is to keep our minds on who rightly deserves the credit for giving us sight, regardless of when that occurred. So you have been blessed to be "first", yet it is also the harder road.

When one has taken a step as dramatic as fully detaching from Babylon, it may be easy to think he has arrived. However, I am convinced that all of us still lack a clear vision of where we are going. We have devoted so much energy to understanding how to escape the clutches of the old kingdom that we neglected to learn enough about the kingdom we are entering. Many have given this no thought at all. Brother Gregory Thomas has an e-mail list where he makes the point well that we must build this new kingdom together. Neither Moses nor the apostles made their escape alone, yet today those escaping Babylon all seem to go it alone. This will have to change for us to make further progress, and this will require more changes within us.

My own conclusion is that what keeps us apart is our view of scripture. Everyone has their own understanding of what does and what does not apply to us. Inevitably, when I find myself in strong disagreement with another "Christian", we have reached a point where they are explaining to me why the verse I just quoted doesn't apply to our circumstances today. Satan has so many lies floating around in this area, that no one feels comfortable simply declaring that it ALL applies to us TODAY! Such a simple position immediately raises objections to things that scripture is not ambiguous about, such as whether we still need to sacrifice animals for our sins. I continue to be astounded at the multiplicity of subtle ways that sincere believers will put down God's Word when it conflicts with their present opinion.

Since you brought it up, I'll use the Sabbath as an example. First of all, a simple search shows that there is NO scriptural basis for changing the Sabbath to SUN-day. So anyone who defends this is more interested in (pagan) "traditions of men". Secondly, the weekly Sabbath and other biblical feasts are all rehersals to prepare us for future events. The weekly Sabbath is to prepare us for the Millenial rest we will soon enter into. This is to be distinct from the previous millenia of man's history, therefore the scriptural emphasis on maintaining the holiness (set-apart-ness, different purpose) of that day. Common sense tells us that if every day is a Sabbath, then in fact NO day is a Sabbath. For anyone to maintain otherwise, they would have to have found a way to live in this world without working, and so far no one has revealed this secret to me.

This leaves only two remaining possibilities for the Sabbath, and I have not yet found sufficient proof in scripture to determine which one is correct. Both the Jewish (Saturday) Sabbath, and the one day in seven counting from the Spring equinox are consistent with scripture. However, in time the Spirit may clear this up for us as well. In the mean time, I enjoy sincere fellowship with those holding to either view, for we all have a heart to honor our Creator's command. When the fuller light comes, neither side will hesitate to change their practice to what is correct. This kind of difference in views is not what is presently dividing us. It is our willingness to make our own judgment a higher authority than scripture that keeps most believers operating from a personal theology that disagrees with everyone else.

As we more fully agree with our Father, we will finally learn to get along with one another. This will become evident once we start building His kingdom together. I am finally starting to see evidence that this is happening, and believe that we will soon see much more. Don't give up on us yet!
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2003 :  01:18:31  Show Profile
To my Brothers here,

I would like to recommend a book for you. I am a little hesitant to do so, because it is a hard read. It was written about 1900, by a Scottish minister, so the style is a bit strange and it is very easy to draw the wrong conclusion about what he is saying. But, I believe that if you will read it, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, that it will have a message for you to live by.

The book is "Knowing the Heart of God" by George MacDonald. It is paperback, for less than $15. The ISBN is 1-55661-131-5

In a year, I have only made my way thru about half of the book, but I have found it very much worth the effort to try to read and understand its meaning.

Peace to you all in the Name of the Lord Jesus,

Lewis
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DanielJacob
Advanced Member

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2003 :  19:53:48  Show Profile  Visit DanielJacob's Homepage
Brothers,

Thank you all that took the time to make replies to my post. I am encouraged and strengthed in your replies that I am not on the wrong track, but quite the contrary, I am probably where I am suppose to be but still have miles to go. I still have a plethora of questions but I will reserve those for another time.

Peace to all…
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2003 :  19:58:54  Show Profile
NO, no, don't reserve them for another time and allow the enemy to work in advance. Start a new post with a new question. We are here to support one another in the struggles against the enemy.

May the Lord smile on you and lighten your load,

Lewis
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Surveyor
Regular Member

USA
31 Posts

Posted - 15 Apr 2003 :  23:32:41  Show Profile  Visit Surveyor's Homepage
Daniel Jacob
I have read your posts for probably close to two years now and your words
especially have been an inspiration to me. Doubt is common to all men but is doubt
a sin or is it a sign that we need to re-examine the why of certain things we have
done while thinking, believing, wishing, or wanting it to be the will of the Father.
Often I have found myself in a doubtful situation and fear is never far behind. At
times such as this I sometimes question my own sanity and have the impulse to
run blindly back to what appears as a place of safety. But the first words that
always come to my mind when I feel like giving up are written in John 6:67,68:
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him,
Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
How do I close my eyes to the things that the Heavenly Father has revealed to me. I have
tried but I found no peace.
One thing that I can’t doubt is that this world and its religious church organizations are
drowning in deception. Matthew:15:9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for
doctrines the commandments of men. I also see many people in these various
churches that are doing what they know to do to follow Christ and this verse grants
no authority for us to act as their judge. But I also see that this scripture clearly
tells us that it is vain to believe that the Fathers will might be accomplished by
organizations that have subjected the people within to the authority and rules of an
unrightous ruler which amounts to serving another god.
The flock is scattered and too often I believe we get so caught up in trying to
escape and save ourself that we forget that we are called to minister “Even as the
Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom
for many.” Matthew 20:28
I believe that you may find some of the answers you are looking for at http://presys.com/~ekklesia/welcome.htm
Brother Gregory has a way of coming straight to the point.
Clarence


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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2003 :  16:52:26  Show Profile
Clarence,

Very well said. Thank you.

Lewis
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Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 19 Apr 2003 :  18:33:00  Show Profile
Brother Daniel,
Jesus, the Christ reminds all apostles, "who will drink from this cup?"
I too have been following His word, and have been seeing and feeling that old snare of the old man trying to lure me back to it. It is deep and sorrowful times going through these events. After all, they are of their inventions which they attempt to make others dance to.
Brother John St. John reminded us of that time where we just feel we just cannot take another day, and then He leaves it there for a little time longer.
"I am desolate" are signs of the times. Even Christ plus all other bondmen of Christ before and now have gone through these perilous times. But the Lord tells us to be of good cheer and fear not, for always He will be our portion if In Him.
Brother, I am desolate, and find peace in my heart only In His word. Circumsized In the heart do I say to you, and others that are reading this: May His will embrace you all, and cover you under His wings. To keep you from harms way, as are against my person. I weep for those whom do not yet, or never will understand His spirit versus the damnnation of hell.

Dios con vosotros,
Manuel
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Gregory
Occasional Poster

USA
7 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2003 :  17:01:31  Show Profile  Visit Gregory's Homepage
Don sent me this forum's discussion. I thought Clarence's mention of Matthew 15:9 was a good reminder of what we are facing.
"But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men."

I recently wrote and posted the page Worship to help those trying to understand and explain the good news and what worship really means.
http://www.hisholychurch.net/sermon/worship.html

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

What world?
I also wrote My kingdom is not of this world
http://www.hisholychurch.net/sermon/world.HTM

which tells the meaning of the word world as it was used in that original text. Both are the same. It is the constitutional order of men. God loved Rome!
Yes he did, just like he loved Israel. Both were filled with selfish, self righteous men but they were also filled with children who would repent given a chance. God wanted to give them every chance to repent and change.
He sent his son to show them their error and men have gone back again in that system of Rome and again need repentance.
They need to understand where they are straying from God's way and return and do the right things.
Few will turn around and head for the kingdom but thousands will and in bad times tens of thousands will.
Blessed are those who turn around now.
Like the Levites some are called out now to began to open the gates and prepare and wash the people of their sinful ways.
They teach don't live by usury, take responsibility for your family and your neighbor. Don't be a burden but be fruitful, generous and merciful and just with all you meet with.

If "coming out" of the paper prison of the world causes you to fail to take care of your family then I suspect you are missing something.

1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Yes, strive to be free of the ways that lead men from the kingdom but do not neglect to do the things of the kingdom.

Jesus said in Luke 12:31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

This means take on your responsibilities that God has given you even if you must remain a slave for the time being.
Many of us are awakened in many different stages of bondage and we cannot hold all to our same path.
1 Corinthians 7:21 Art thou called [being] a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use [it] rather.

These freedom will always come at a price and they may not come as soon as we would like. God is judge.

Moses did not say rescind your contract with Pharaoh nor did he say take back Pharaoh's chariots until Pharaoh said ...Rise up, [and] get you forth from among my people, both ye and the children of Israel; and go, serve the LORD, as ye have said. Also take your flocks and your herds, as ye have said, and be gone; and bless me also.Exodus 12:31

During all this Israel had become a people, a nation. They moved as one body and came out.

We see the same pattern repeated with the Levites in the camp and with the apostles and the first century Church. We must come together before we can come out.
This way is now open to those who would be ministers and bondservants in God's kingdom. Those who wish to come out as servants of Christ serving the congregation of the people will have better coverture than those who grab what they can and flee the power of Pharaoh and Rome.

I am not convinced that the taking the state license off a vehicle that has entered the corvee as collateral is not the answer. I think eventually you may be able to transfer the collateral to the kingdom but I have not found a process that I would consider to be valid.
I believe that full time ministers under an vow of Poverty as prescribed by Jesus and Moses before him will be excluded from getting a license from the State. At which time I would say out of their own mouth they say we are separate and we can issue our own ministerial documents of recognition of the right to travel.

You can drive any where in the USA with Canadian or Iranian drivers license if you are a resident of those governments, you should also be allowed to do the same if you are a resident of the Church, which is separate from the State.

This is what we are working on. Where can we be a resident of the Church and not the "Roman State".

In the mean time I encourage all to start seeking the kingdom and coming together in service. Learn what it means to Call no man Father
http://www.hisholychurch.net/sermon/father.HTM

All roads lead to Rome and all roads lead to the kingdom of Heaven. The difference is the direction you are going.
Repent means turn around.
Seek the kingdom

With Love:
Peace be on your house
Gregory [email protected]
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Gregory
Occasional Poster

USA
7 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2003 :  21:28:31  Show Profile  Visit Gregory's Homepage
In a personal note to me North pointed out that I used a double negative where I should not have.
I meant to say, "I am not convinced that taking the state license off a vehicle which has entered the corvee as collateral is a good idea."
I believe we are justifying our robbing of Cain's interest in the vehicle with out his consent. NOt that he derves that interest just that there is a prohibition to robbing Cain or his civil structure.

Again God is Judge.
Peace be on your house
Gregory [email protected]
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True North
Advanced Member

USA
163 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2003 :  10:21:57  Show Profile
Gregory

This should probably be a personal note but you are getting to the heart of what several on this forum are exploring also. Let me just try to summarize how I see your position and the position I see coming from the participates/admin of this forum and any who will correct my ignorance can.

You mention the 'Cain system', a system of coercion that is "upside down" (tyranny of a king, dictator and finally government as a democracy) in opposition to the true system of the servant Yeshua ministering to the body as the example for the rest of the servants of the Kingdom to follow as servants one to another.

What I don't understand is your need to recognize the "Cain system" in reference to licensing (of any sort, land, vehicles, professions, etc.).

Some on this forum see the need of an abatement as the only answer necessary to a claim of commerce on a member of the body of Christ. The work of the kingdom involves all areas of Life and each member need only recognize that ownership, (of any and everything) is the Lord's, in the Lord's name.

My ignorant, and maybe simplistic, understanding is...

1. The need of church trustees to answer any claim with an abatement against the body and to provide a name to present as trustee of Christ's property to barter assets needed.

2. Trustees to meet the physical needs of the body through the seven gifts of administration, giving, serving, teaching, exhorting, prophecying and ministering as referenced in Romans 12:6.

3. A physical location to grow the food, house and maintain this church.

Natural Law remedy and recourse has the answer to any affidavit...you can see this exampled in the remedy and recourse of the UCC equity system of law (Cain's system just as an example not an option). The only other adversary will come by conquest and you have to address that as your conscious/ignorance allows.

What am I missing? Is it just that we have become too selfish, apathetic or dumbed down? It is not impossible to be separate and to "come out of her my people". If it is impossible, I don't have an understanding of what life is or what the scriptures say.

I guess I don't understand the reference to robbing "Cain's system" or maybe I just don't know those verses of prohibition to robbing Cain or his civil structure. I'm not suggesting we rob his system nor do I see it as robbing and I have no wish to plunder that system. I will work for sustenance. Coming out of the system by not recognizing the need of permits and license means I will be limitted to dealing only with the people of Yeshua or a trustee but in the exodus they plundered the Egyptians. Will it bring the vicar's men, yes, but Law (look at the references to Christ as Law) will provide.

There are 8 or 10 that will read this forum who understand these things. I would commit the things I've accumulated to them as trustees of Yeshua haMeshiach.

I'm not a cheerleader for a cause and I am not going to willingly grant to a trustee who has no physical location (cyberspace jurisdiction for Christ's "trust" won't meet the needs of the body).

What do we "have" to have? Five acres of farm ground, Fifteen of forested ground, and hard nosed, hard working trustees.

Please forgive me while I go wallow in my own apathy now.
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