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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2007 :  12:43:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Marty:

According to the U.S. Postmaster General, by taking them to the U.S. Treasury.


Regards,



Lewis
A Man on the Land on Washington as a Citizen thereon.
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Cornerstone Foundation
Advanced Member

uSA
254 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2007 :  16:05:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lewish

Marty:

According to the U.S. Postmaster General, by taking them to the U.S. Treasury.


Regards,



Lewis
A Man on the Land on Washington as a Citizen thereon.

Lewis,

Can you name a specific location where one could "take them to the U.S. Treasury"?

Thank you,

Marty
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2007 :  13:22:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Marty,

United States Treasury, Washington, D.C.

Only location there is for the Treasury.



Lewis
A Man on the Land on Washington as a Citizen thereon.
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Cornerstone Foundation
Advanced Member

uSA
254 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2007 :  16:15:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lewish

Marty,

United States Treasury, Washington, D.C.

Only location there is for the Treasury.



Lewis
A Man on the Land on Washington as a Citizen thereon.

Lewis,

Does it seem possible and practical to you that a man would be able to send an envelope containing ten $1.00 red fox stamps to that location by registered mail and expect to receive by return mail a gold coin with a ten dollar face value?

If so ... then that $10 gold piece could be exchanged for enough federal reserve notes to buy a greater number of $1.00 red fox stamps than the original ten. That would be a profitable enterprise for the man sending the stamps.

It would seem that such activity would be unprofitable and unsustainable for the United States Treasury.

Please comment on this.

Best Regards,

Marty
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2007 :  13:13:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Marty,

You are off in the weeds. No where did I say that the RedFox stamp could be exchanged for a 1 dollar gold coin. I said it could be exchanged for 1 dollar in gold. That is a big difference.

You bought the stamp with funny money. You will get the equivalent amount of gold. In other words about 1 six-hundredth of an ounce of gold. You are not going to get a profit.

Get a clue.



Lewis
A Man on the Land on Washington as a Citizen thereon.
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Cornerstone Foundation
Advanced Member

uSA
254 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2007 :  13:56:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lewish

No where did I say that the RedFox stamp could be exchanged for a 1 dollar gold coin. I said it could be exchanged for 1 dollar in gold. That is a big difference.

You bought the stamp with funny money. You will get the equivalent amount of gold. In other words about 1 six-hundredth of an ounce of gold. You are not going to get a profit.


Lewis,

Thank you for the clarification of your earlier comments posted to this topic.

Based on what you have just posted it seems that you are effectively stating that:

1. A $1.00 "assured value" Red Fox stamp is redeemable for an amount of gold that can be exchanged for a $1.00 "funny money" federal reserve note.

2. Any other $1.00 postage stamp even though it is NOT an "assured value" stamp can be exchanged for the same $1.00 "funny money" federal reserve note which can then be used to purchase approximately 1/600th of an ounce of gold.

3. If a=b then b=a

4. Therefore it is a moot point to say that an "assured value" Red Fox stamp is special because it is redeemable for gold.

Is our logic correct or is there something we are missing concerning the point you are making?

It does seem significant however, if the "assured value" stamp can be used to send a letter for 3 cents instead of 41 cents.

That explains to us the advantage in using three of the 1 cent "assured value" stamps that are ostensibly redeemable for silver.

Can you give an example of a situation where it may be advantageous to a man or women to use a $1.00 "assured value" Red Fox stamp which you indicate can be redeemed for about 1/600th of its face value in gold.

Thank you for your constructive response.

Best Regards,

Marty

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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2007 :  12:54:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello Marty,

The $1.00 "assured value" of the RedFox stamp is very important if you are registering a contract into Admiralty under the provision of the Universal Postal Union. It can also be very important when used on court documents. It gives them a value under Law.

The $5.00 "assured value" of the silver certificate stamp is important for any contract on the Land or in equity. Several of them together can be used as a silver bond for equity cases. Remember that a Man standing on the Land must not be a pauper or dependent on others for his needs. Four silver certificate stamps and one gold certificate stamp would prove under common Law that you are a Man of standing and not a pauper.

I may have already related this story here somewhere, but it fits with this, so here it is again. About 3 years ago, a Black Man in California was pulled over by the California Hiway Patrol. He and the other occupant of the vehicle, also Black, were immediately put into handcuffs. Now, I should tell you that my friend, who was driving, drives like an absent-minded professor. He also has no plates on the car and no Driver License. Well, when the first officer started searching his person, he pulled something out of the Man's pocket and immediately started appologizing. He ordered the other officer to do the same. They took off the handcuffs, appologized some more, and then asked if they could escort the Man to whatever location he was going. And what did the officer pull out of my friend's pocket? He pulled out 3 twenty Dollar gold coins. He knew what that meant and what the Man's standing was. He knew he was outside the jurisdiction of the CHP.


Hope this is enlightening to you,



Lewis
A Man on the Land on Washington as a Citizen thereon.
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Jay Scott
Advanced Member

uSA
181 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2007 :  15:13:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lewis[h]
The $1.00 "assured value" of the RedFox stamp is very important if you are registering a contract into Admiralty under the provision of the Universal Postal Union. It can also be very important when used on court documents. It gives them a value under Law.

The $5.00 "assured value" of the silver certificate stamp is important for any contract on the Land or in equity. Several of them together can be used as a silver bond for equity cases. Remember that a Man standing on the Land must not be a pauper or dependent on others for his needs. Four silver certificate stamps and one gold certificate stamp would prove under common Law that you are a Man of standing and not a pauper.


Are these interchangeable? Can the $$5.00 stamp be used for registering a contract into Admiralty under the provision of the Universal Postal Union? http://www.upu.int/

The reason I ask is because I did not see any Red-Fox stamps at usps.com.

What is the purpose and advantage of registering a contract into Admiralty under the provision of the Universal Postal Union? How is that done? Put a stamp on the contract and have the postal clerk round-date it?

quote:
Originally posted by Lewis[h]
I may have already related this story here somewhere, but it fits with this, so here it is again. About 3 years ago, a Black Man in California was pulled over by the California Hiway Patrol. He and the other occupant of the vehicle, also Black, were immediately put into handcuffs. Now, I should tell you that my friend, who was driving, drives like an absent-minded professor. He also has no plates on the car and no Driver License. Well, when the first officer started searching his person, he pulled something out of the Man's pocket and immediately started appologizing. He ordered the other officer to do the same. They took off the handcuffs, appologized some more, and then asked if they could escort the Man to whatever location he was going. And what did the officer pull out of my friend's pocket? He pulled out 3 twenty Dollar gold coins. He knew what that meant and what the Man's standing was. He knew he was outside the jurisdiction of the CHP.


That's a fantastic story! Thanks for sharing that, Lewis.

$$60! That's a lot of Money!

Jay Scott.



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Jay Scott
Advanced Member

uSA
181 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2007 :  15:50:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh. That brings another question to mind.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/8.html

18 USC 8 says:

quote:
§ 8. Obligation or other security of the United States defined

The term “obligation or other security of the United States” includes all bonds, certificates of indebtedness, national bank currency, Federal Reserve notes, Federal Reserve bank notes, coupons, United States notes, Treasury notes, gold certificates, silver certificates, fractional notes, certificates of deposit, bills, checks, or drafts for money, drawn by or upon authorized officers of the United States, stamps and other representatives of value, of whatever denomination, issued under any Act of Congress, and canceled United States stamps [Emphasis mine].


It's not a stretch to accept stamps are obligations of the United States, but cancelled stamps? If so, would that include any stamps? Or just stamps with an assured value?

Jay Scott.

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berkano
Advanced Member

uSA
129 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2007 :  18:52:31  Show Profile  Visit berkano's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lewish
Well, when the first officer started searching his person, he pulled something out of the Man's pocket and immediately started appologizing. He ordered the other officer to do the same. They took off the handcuffs, appologized some more, and then asked if they could escort the Man to whatever location he was going. And what did the officer pull out of my friend's pocket? He pulled out 3 twenty Dollar gold coins. He knew what that meant and what the Man's standing was. He knew he was outside the jurisdiction of the CHP.



Very cool story, only it is useless to me unless you can get this friend to testify to it and create some sort of verifiable document as to exactly what happened. Also as important is your friends thoughts on the incident. Otherwise it is just heresay and if I quote it it is double heresay.

Is there any way you can provide verification of this incident with the CHP?

Berkano
http://www.brainwashington.info
http://groups.google.com/group/GuerrillaVille
http://groups.google.com/group/brainwashington
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2007 :  17:18:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
berkano,

I am sure my friend, who is a minister and very spiritual man, would be more than willing to create an Affidavit of Facts regarding this matter. As to the CHP, why would they ever give you evidence that can be used against them? Have you ever seen the BEAST give out any evidence that can be used against it?



Lewis
A Man on the Land on Washington as a Citizen thereon.
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2007 :  17:24:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jay,

Notice the wording of your quote. "Representative of value", hmmmm, does assured value come to mind here?, and issued by an Act of Congress. I don't know if these stamps were specifically issued under an Act of Congress, and wouldn't even begin to know how to find it if they were, but they are definitely representative of value, and are certificates.

Look up stamps, and you find it also refers to seals. So, cancelled stamps may not refer to postage stamps or stamps issued by the USPS.

The advantage of registering a contract in Admiralty and under the UPU, is that the Constitution and Laws of the UPU then govern the honoring of the contract. If you put a court into contract under the UPU, then the UPU is responsible for seeing that the court complies with the contract. Getting them to do it, is of course, another matter. I do know that it changes the attitude of the court when you bring it forward in court.

Yes, the $5.00 stamp can be used in Admiralty.




Lewis
A Man on the Land on Washington as a Citizen thereon.
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berkano
Advanced Member

uSA
129 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2007 :  20:13:41  Show Profile  Visit berkano's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lewish

berkano,

I am sure my friend, who is a minister and very spiritual man, would be more than willing to create an Affidavit of Facts regarding this matter. As to the CHP, why would they ever give you evidence that can be used against them? Have you ever seen the BEAST give out any evidence that can be used against it?



Please pass my request on to your friend. As for the CHP, I had no intention of suggesting you get them to testify. I'm not interested in what they have to say.

Berkano
http://www.brainwashington.info
http://groups.google.com/group/GuerrillaVille
http://groups.google.com/group/brainwashington
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mikah2k
Regular Member

USA
34 Posts

Posted - 25 Sep 2007 :  16:11:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lewish

Hello Marty,

The $1.00 "assured value" of the RedFox stamp is very important if you are registering a contract into Admiralty under the provision of the Universal Postal Union. It can also be very important when used on court documents. It gives them a value under Law.

The $5.00 "assured value" of the silver certificate stamp is important for any contract on the Land or in equity. Several of them together can be used as a silver bond for equity cases. Remember that a Man standing on the Land must not be a pauper or dependent on others for his needs. Four silver certificate stamps and one gold certificate stamp would prove under common Law that you are a Man of standing and not a pauper.

[anecdote removed]

Hope this is enlightening to you,



Lewis
A Man on the Land on Washington as a Citizen thereon.



Lewis,
The 4 silver certificate stamps and 1 RedFox stamp have combined assured value or face value of 21 dollars.

For maintaining man on the land (non-pauper) status , where does the minimum of 21 dollars, of assured value or coin face value, originate? Where did you find out about the minimum standard?

Thanks.
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2007 :  17:26:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello mikah2k,

If you look at the Common Law of this country, the real country that is, but it also applies in proper denomination in England, etc., in order for a Common Law court to hear a controversy, the value of the controversy must be $20 or more. At the same time, the Law establishes that any Man without $20 or more is consider a pauper for purposes of governing. This originated somewhere back in time around the Magna Carta. It prevented the Comman Man from being seized and thrown into debtor's prison without trial.




Lewis
A Man on the Land on Washington as a Citizen thereon.
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dmichaels34276
New Member

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2010 :  21:06:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
can you explain, in detail, these 2 allegations under findings of facts and conclusions of law

[email protected]

quote:
The $1.00 "assured value" of the RedFox stamp is very important if you are registering a contract into Admiralty under the provision of the Universal Postal Union. It can also be very important when used on court documents. It gives them a value under Law.

The $5.00 "assured value" of the silver certificate stamp is important for any contract on the Land or in equity. Several of them together can be used as a silver bond for equity cases. Remember that a Man standing on the Land must not be a pauper or dependent on others for his needs. Four silver certificate stamps and one gold certificate stamp would prove under common Law that you are a Man of standing and not a pauper.

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Caleb
Advanced Member

Philippines
209 Posts

Posted - 28 Jul 2011 :  22:50:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This thread contains excellent material about the proper way to limit your contract with the Post Office. As Lewis correctly pointed out, the Post Office is the first thing that is set up when establishing a modern government. And Yes, this is what Costner's movie (based on the book) "The Postman" was all about.

The US Post Office was established by Ben Franklin one year prior to the Declaration of Independence. Where? Philadelphia, where he had been Postmaster for decades prior. First capital of the united States of America: Philadelphia. Franklin was the most prominent "founding father" who never became president. And no one explains to us what made him so important. Flying a kite in a thunderstorm???

While much of this thread delves into "assured value" on the stamps, I wanted to expand on why it is so important for us to know and act upon the information regarding general delivery.

Why is the Post Office so important to the Govt? I expand on this elsewhere, but the simple fact is: It is the mechanism whereby Maritime law is brought onto the land. Look at the importance Mr. Bouvier ascribed to it in his Dictionary of Law. It is only time I have seen him cite an entire statute:

quote:
POST OFFICE. A place where letters are received to be sent to the persons to whom they are addressed.

2. The post office establishment of the United States is of the greatest importance to the people and to the government. The constitution of the United States has invested congress with power to establish post offices and post roads. Art. 1, s. 8, n. 7.

3. By virtue of this constitutional authority, congress passed several laws anterior to the third day of March, 1825, when an act, entitled "An act to reduce into one the several acts establishing and regulating the post office department," was passed. 3 Story, U. S. 1985. It is thereby enacted, 1. That there be established, at the seat of the government of the United States, a general post office, under the direction of a postmaster general. The postmaster general shall appoint two assistants, and such clerks as may be necessary for the performance of the business of his office, and as are authorized by law; and shall procure, and cause to be kept, a seal for the said office, which shall be affixed to commissions of postmasters, and used to authenticate all transcripts and copies which may be required from the department. He shall establish post offices, and appoint postmasters, at all such places as shall appear to him expedient, on the post roads that are, or may be, established by law. He shall give his assistants, the postmasters, and all other persons whom he shall employ, or who may be employed in any of the departments of the general post office, instructions relative to their duty. He shall provide for the carriage of the mail on all post roads that are, or may be, established by law, and as often as he, having regard to the productiveness thereof, and other circumstances, shall think proper. He may direct the route or road, where there are more than one, between places designated by law for a post road, which route shall be considered the post road. ...

...

6. - 4. That the postmaster general shall cause a mail to be carried from the nearest post office, on any established post road, to the court house of any county which is now, or may hereafter be established in any of the states or territories of the United States, and which is without a mail; and the road on which such mail shall be transported, shall become a post road, and so continue, until the transportation thereon shall cease. It shall for the postmaster general to enter into contracts, for a term not exceeding four years, for extending the line of posts, and to authorize the persons, so contracting, as a compensation for their expenses, to receive during the continuance of such contracts, at rates not exceeding those for like distances, established by this act, all the postage which shall arise on all letters, newspapers, magazines, pamphlets, and packets, conveyed by any such posts; and the roads designated in such contracts, shall, during the continuance thereof, be deemed and considered as post roads, within the provision of this act: and a duplicate of every such contract shall, within sixty days after the execution thereof, be lodged in the office of the comptroller of the treasury of the United States.



Note the close relationship between the "post offices" and the "post roads". Post roads are established by contract. According to Webster's 1828, and most dictionaries, even modern ones, a "road" is:

2. A place where ships may ride at anchor

So when you accept "free delivery" of the mail to your doorstep, you bring Admiralty jurisdiction right up to your front door. The Post Office overlays the Common Law highways and byways of the land with "roads": where ships are found, and therefore where Maritime law applies.

I'm sure you were all told as a child that your post box in front of your house is owned by the Govt, and tampering with it is a Federal offence. Well, now you know why the Govt takes it so seriously, and why they "own" everything associated with the street address! The address locates their post box, not your house. So disassociate the two just as fast as you can.

Now think about your dealings with the Post Office from the contractual standpoint. When you buy a stamp, you pay them for a service. What service? Delivery of your letter from one Post Office to another.

Question: Does the recipient of your letter have a contractual obligation here?

Answer: No. It was not his contract, it was yours. If that letter gets lost, he can't file the paperwork to trace it. Only you, the sender, can. The Post Office knows they have no contract with the recipient.

But what happens when the recipient accepts free delivery from his nearest Post Office to his door? Poof! He is now in contract with the Post Office for receiving the letter that you paid for.

Thus, modern nations set up the Post Office first so that everyone is in (Maritime) contract with the Government, via the Post Office. And if you want to avoid such entanglements, you must never receive mail at your house, or use a street or "residential" address.

You should also not use a P.O. Box, because the Post Office gets you to sign a contract and pay for this service! Once again, you are in contract as the recipient. They will have you believe that you can't use general delivery, or general post office, but that is just to discourage you. The fact is, they would be in breach of their contract with the sender if they refused to hold the mail for you at the Post Office for a reasonable time. Typically, they will hold any mail for a month, and only after that is there a danger of them sending it back if it is not collected. Should be reasonable enough for most people.

The discussion on "assured value" is important if you are the sender, as it determines whether your contract for mail delivery is enforceable at Common Law or only in Admiralty. No assured value, no Common Law. However, I don't think this is as important as avoiding contract altogether as the recipient.

Honi soit qui mal y pense
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