| Author |
 Topic  |
|
David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 07:38:23
|
I think maybe I see your point Manuel. But not clearly enough to comment directly. I think you are relating to Webster's definition of ENTHUSIASM.
Maybe "LITV" is private slang for "Literal Version" where like in Oneisraelite's response to my accusation, he takes a KJV Bible verse and breaks it out with Strong's and other Hebrew lexicons. I admire Oneisraelite's talent for breaking down words and bringing clear meaning to the Bible.
What I found annoying enough to confront, maybe even alarming after the experience I had with Joe is that the "Yahuwah/Yahushuah" doctrine, which seemed recently adopted by Oneisraelite, justified him to misquote the Bible in order to promulgate his new doctrine about Sacred Names here on ecclesia.org.
The way the exchange went yesterday unfortunately, by the time I was directly confronting the problem, it may have been too much of an emberassment that he made up the "LITV" Bible version. Whereas if he would have quoted KJV verbatim then broken it down to explain his doctrine from the beginning that would have been a completely different scenario.
I think that the Holy Spirit of God will guide us as a gentleman would; a proper bridegroom. Not imposing upon our right to make decisions - our free agency. Sometimes a doctrine creeps in. Oneisraelite admitted that an author preferred "Yehushuah" only but admitted that "Yehoshuah" could be the proper pronunciation. That is hardly foundation to change Jehovah (Yehovah) to Yahuway in my opinion. But more importantly that scarcely justifies trying to sneak the doctrine upon us in misquotes and then trying to make it look like the misquotes came from a popular translation "LITV". However I think the whole episode strongly confirms Noah Webster's 1827 definition of ENTHUSIASM true - that a man or woman can truly believe he or she is justified to resort to such means to promulgate a novel and often unsubstantiated doctrine.
Regards,
David Merrill.
|
Edited by - David Merrill on 04 Mar 2005 07:45:55 |
 |
|
|
Bondservant
Forum Administrator
382 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 09:48:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by oneisraelite
Yirm'yahu 8:8(LITV) How do you say, We are wise, and the Law of Yahuwah is with us? Behold, the lying pen of the scribes has certainly worked deceit.
I know you have been asked at least twice what "LITV" means. I am also very curious what Torah or Bible version LITV stands for since I have never seen this before. Oneisraelite, would you please answer this?
He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err. - Mark 12:27 |
|
|
|
Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 13:37:58
|
The answer to your question is this:
Literal Translation of the HOLY BIBLE, translated by Jay P. Green Sr. Bondservant has asked me to post the online version of this so that others may access it if they should so desire. http://www.litvonline.com/
And here is the quote unedited by us:
“8 How do you say, We are wise, and the Law of Jehovah is with us? Behold, the lying pen of the scribes has certainly worked deceit.” [Emphasis added]
Whenever editing another’s works I try to always italicize any changes I make as way of noting those changes, as do nearly all translators (changers) of the Scriptures.
P.S. One of the reasons we have taken so long in answering this question is that we were slammed by viruses (six) and one spy malware, apparently all at one time. We had to procure some anti-virus software, but now have it pretty well under control, Yahuwah willing. We thank everyone for their patience in this matter.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional USA.
Ephesians 2:12 & 19
An act done by me against my will is not my act. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 04 Mar 2005 13:42:48 |
|
|
|
David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2005 : 17:38:11
|
Thank you for the explanation. Ouch! Six viruses at once. Anyway, as you see, the delay had me speculating.
After a debate about my correcting Marty (Cornerstone Foundation), I did some research. It is never proper to change a quote. So you should write in quotes like so, if you feel strongly about expressing your different opinion:quote:
Jeremiah 8:8 LITV
How do you say, We are wise, and the Law of Jehovah [sic] is with us? Behold, the lying pen of the scribes has certainly worked deceit.
But even that is only reserved for typos or misspellings. For instance if "Jehovah" was a misspelling. So you would explain in subsequent text that in your opinion Jehovah is an incorrect spelling of that name and why you think Yahuway is more appropriate. The italics are like quotation marks, meaning that the word is foreign to the forum - Hebrew. For example one might expect if the original text misspelled behold:quote:
Jeremiah 8:8 LITV
How do you say, We are wise, and the Law of Jehovah is with us? Behould [sic], the lying pen of the scribes has certainly worked deceit.
And no explanation is necessary. The author quoting the LITV Bible would simply be pointing out that the misspelling was present in the Bible verse when he found and quoted it. Be sure to note that it is improper to correct even "behould" to "behold" in a quotation.
For instance Black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition at Name. quote:
A person's "name" consists of one or more Christian or given names and one surname or family name. It is the distinctive characterization in words by which one is known and distinguished from others, and description, or abbreviation, is not the equivalent of a "name."
This could easily be written:quote:
A person's name consists of one or more Christian or given names and one surname or family name. It is the distinctive characterization in words by which one is known and distinguished from others, and description, or abbreviation, is not the equivalent of a name.
[In this example the quotations were likely used instead of italics because in dictionaries it is customary when using the word defined in the definition, to italicize the word. So that is likely why the quotation marks were used instead.]
Careful scrutiny reveals they are talking about legal name, not name. So they put it in quotation marks being foreign (within the scope of a legal dictionary) to the common law; plain English. See Legal name.quote:
Under common law consists of one Christian name and one surname, and the insertion, omission...
See it? The word "name" in the first definition is actually identical in constructive definition (for all intents and purposes) to legal name in the forum of common law.
So please do not change Bible or any other quotations. Do not change them at all. We can all tell by your usage in your original text that you prefer Yahuway and Yahushuah. If you impose your usage on readers by making them seem mainstream, by writing them into quotes from other authors, I will speak up against that.
Regards,
David Merrill. |
Edited by - David Merrill on 04 Mar 2005 20:22:39 |
|
|
|
1234jagal
0
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 09:07:38
|
Remember we are born a new man and therefore the need to expatriate is non existant.
Christ's redemtion fulfilled all law including that of the Pharisees.
Christ rejected the ways of the Pharisees and if we are to enjoy an abundant life this can only be accomplihed by dedicating our lives to the ways of Christ.
Therefore we must reject the ways of the Pharisees.
Testify of the birth of the spirit, your new man and your Citizenship in Heaven is secured and your flesh redeemed from the Pharisee law worshippers.
It may be helpful to understand what is a Pharisee and why are they against God.
What is a Pharisee?
THE PHARISEES OF ISRAEL WERE METICULOUS IN CLAIMING TO OBEY THE LAW.
THEY MANUFACTURED HUNDREDS OF THEIR OWN LAWS.
THEY CONSTANTLY OPPOSED CHRIST, AND SOUGHT TO TRAP HIM BY THEIR WAYS ABD CUSTOMS.
I WILL COMMENT BRIEFLY, AS WE LOOK AT CHRIST'S TEACHING ON A PHARISEES.
How do we identify a Pharisee?
1 Then Yashua Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
2 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
THE PHARISEE IS SOMEONE WHO CLAIMS TO SIT IN THE POSTION OF AUTHORITY!
3 But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
THE PHARISEE DOES NOT PRACTICE WHAT HE PREACHES (OTHERWISE KNOWN AS A HYPOCRITE & emdash; OR ACTOR).
4 They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
THE DEMANDS OF A PHARISEE ARE BURDENSOME. THEY OFFER NO HELP OR ASSISTANCE.
5 "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;
THE PHARISEE MAKES SURE YOU KNOW AND SEE HOW SPIRITUAL HE IS!!! (Righteous) MUCH MORE SPIRITUAL THAN YOU OR ME!
6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
PHARISEES LIVE FOR PRESTIGE AND RECOGNITION. YOU'LL FIND THEM SITTING ON THE PLATFORM, OR IN A CHOICE PEW AT CHURCH.
7 they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'
PHARISEES ALSO LIVE FOR TITLES; "PASTOR", "REVEREND", "MOST REVEREND", "PROFESSOR".
8 "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
THE KINGDOM HAS NO SPECIAL TITLES OR PRIVELEGES.
9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
10 Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
PHARISEES NEED THE FOCUS TO BE ON THEM!
11 The greatest among you will be your servant.
SERVANTHOOD, THE TRUE KINGDOM PATTERN.
12 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
INCREASE YOUR 'RANK' BY DEMOTING YOURSELF.
13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
PHARISEES TRY TO BLOCK THE ENTRY INTO GODS KINGDOM WITH THEIR DEAD BODIES.
15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
PHARISEES ARE ZEALOUS (CONSIDER SAUL OF TARSUS) TO WIN PEOPLE OVER TO THEIR WAY. THEIR ERRORS ARE MAGNIFIED AND AMPLIFIED AS THEY ARE PASSED ON TO THEIR FOLLOWERS.
16 "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
18 You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
20 Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
21 And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
22 And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
PHARISEES ALWAYS FOCUS ON HUMAN EFFORTS AND ENDEAVORS, WHILE COMPLETELY MISSING DIVINE PURPOSE AND INTENTION.
23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
PHARISEES ARE METICULOUS ABOUT CARRYING OUT THE FINE DETAILS OF THE LAW. THEIR 'SPIRITUAL' LABORS ARE MEASURED TO THE LAST GRAM, BUT THEY CANNOT SEE THE HEART OF THE LAW WHICH BEATS WITHIN IT.
24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
A PHARISEE ALWAYS EXCELS AT NIT-PICKING, WHILE MISSING THE NOSE ON HIS FACE!
25 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
THEY SLAP A FRESH COAT OF PAINT ON, TO HIDE THE ROTTEN BOARDS.
26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
TRUE CHANGE BEGINS INWARDLY, AND NATURALLY WORKS OUTWARD.
27 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
THE GRASS IS MOWED AND THE WINDOWS ARE WASHED, BUT BEWARE THE KILLER LURKING JUST BEHIND THE CURTAINS!
29 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
30 And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
TODAYS PHARISEES LIKE TO THINK THAT THEY ARE NOT AT ALL LIKE THE PHARISEES OF BYGONE DAYS.
31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
PHARISEES CAN'T HIDE WHO THEY REALLY ARE.
32 Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Mattew 23:1-35 (NIV)
4 When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.)
5 So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Yashua Jesus, "Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with 'unclean' hands?"
PHARISEES ALWAYS WATCH YOU TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE LIVING BY THEIR STANDARDS.
6 He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: "'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
NO CONNECTION BETWEEN A PHARISEE'S HEART AND MOUTH.
7 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'
PHARISEES ARE FOLLOWING THEIR OWN SELF-MADE RELIGION. IT PROFITS NOTHING.
8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."
9 And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!
Mark 7:4-9 (NIV)
THE PHARISEE'S TRADITIONS ALWAYS ATTEMPT TO OVERRULE THE COMMANDS OF GOD.
13 "making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do."
Mark 7:13 (NKJV)
THE PHARISEE'S TRADITIONS SUBVERT AND NEUTRALIZE THE COMMANDS OF GOD.
THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST DEADLY ACTIONS OF A PHARISEE, FOR IT IGNORES WHAT GOD HAS SAID, AND PUTS THE TEACHINGS OF MAN IN THE PLACE OF DIVINE REVELATION.
FOR NOW, LET ME SAY, YOU HAVE A 'PROFILE' OF A PHARISEE. THE PHARISEE IS NOT AN EXTINCT SPECIES. HE IS ALIVE AND WELL. IN FACT, YOU WILL MEET HIM IN YOUR LOCAL CHURCH, COURTHOUSE AND,
IF YOU ARE HONEST, YOU MAY CATCH A GLIMPSE OF A PHARISEE IN YOUR OWN MIRROR FROM TIME TO TIME.
YASUA JESUS' HARSHEST WORDS AND FIERCEST BATTLES INVOLVED PHARISEES. FOLLOW HIS EXAMPLE IN NOT YIELDING AN INCH TO THEIR DEMANDS.
ABIDE IN CHRIST'S WORD. OBEY HIM ALONE. RESIST THE URGE TO PLACE PHARASAICAL BURDENS ON OTHERS. DO NOT GO BEYOND THE WORDS OF GOD.
Glory To God and Christ our "REDEEMER"
|
|
|
|
Manuel
Advanced Member
USA
762 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 12:50:57
|
I know what you write of 1234jagal, quoting your insight of:
"A PHARISEE ALWAYS EXCELS AT NIT-PICKING, WHILE MISSING THE NOSE ON HIS FACE!"
They are snotty. Remember what Yahoshua told the wo-man that came to complain about another?
|
|
|
|
Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 06:34:21
|
Greetings and salutations 1234jagal and Manuel:
Peace be unto you and yours.
Perhaps a verse and a few definitions may enhance your "profile" of the pharisacial attitude a bit, that we might more readily recognize one, should we ever come across it.
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart (thoughts or feelings (mind)) and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost (Set-Apart Spirit): as your fathers did, so do ye.
STIFF-NECKED, a. [stiff and neck.] Stubborn; inflexibly obstinate; contumacious; as a stiff-necked people; stiff-necked pride.
OB'STINATE, a. [L. obstinatus.] 1. Stubborn; pertinaciously adhering to an opinion or purpose; fixed firmly in resolution; not yielding to reason, arguments or other means.
CONTUMACIOUS, a. [L., to swell.] 1. Literally, swelling against; haughty. Hence, obstinate; perverse; stubborn; inflexible; unyielding; disobedient; as a contumacious child.
An uncircumcised heart is denoted by Noah Webster (c.1828) this way…
STIFF-HEARTED, a. [stiff and heart.] Obstinate; stubborn; contumacious.
And a pharisaical attitude may be best summed up by this word…
STUBBORN, a. 1. Unreasonably obstinate; inflexibly fixed in opinion; not to be moved or persuaded by reasons; inflexible; as a stubborn son; a stubborn mind or soul.
Yahushua, the Anointed One, sums up their fate best, as usual...
Truly I say unto you, That the collectors of public revenue and Babylon go into the Kingdom of Yahuwah before you.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional USA.
Ephesians 2:12 & 19
An act done by me against my will is not my act. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 06 Mar 2005 06:56:30 |
|
|
|
David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 06:57:43
|
Oneisraelite said:quote:
Yahushua, the Anointed One, sums up their fate best, as usual...
Truly I say unto you, That the collectors of public revenue and Babylon go into the Kingdom of Yahuwah before you.
From the likely LITV original Matthew 21:quote:
31 Which of the two did the will of the father? They said to Him, The first. Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you, The tax collectors and the harlots go before you into the kingdom of God.
http://www.litvonline.com/
In which he makes a very good point about lying scribes; altering a famous Bible quote to his own spelling. So meticulous about definitions and etymologies but just the same you always have to check his quotes and paraphrasing against the Real McCoy.
Why wont you just quote the original authors exactly Oneisraelite? I am sure they would all appreciate that! You can correct them all you want in your humble opinion - "rightly dividing" the Word of God. But in writing to us readers, you should be truthful. You should quote exactly without garnishing the quote with colored fonts and insertions or omissions. To just deliver misquotes already "rightly divided" you are being extremely arrogant to correct the original author of the work you are quoting. You know that already. So is it that you are being obstinant that you must teach us the Name of God is Yahuway?
Like I have explained last page; I have been through this before with Joe. Fine. You think it is spelled and pronounced Yahushua and Yahuway. No problem. I would have corrected Joe too if I had heard him teaching others. The problem is that you are distorting Bible verses and moreso the problem, insist on doing so after being corrected about misquoting. So it comes down to this offbeat teaching somehow justifying you to lie to us. What is with that?
Regards,
David Merrill.
P.S. Readers; Oneisraelite may feel he has answered my accusation in a PM. I have asked him if I may cut and paste that here or better yet for him to repeat or explain his private note to me here on this Topic.
What makes no sense to my logic and pragmatism is that Oneisraelite would bother quoting any source at all if he feels he must correct that source in the process of quoting it. Why not quote it accurately and then state his opinions? http://ecclesia.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=433 Posted - Mar 06 2005 : 07:30:15 AM |
Edited by - David Merrill on 06 Mar 2005 09:02:29 |
|
|
|
1234jagal
0
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 09:49:47
|
It should always be kept in mind by all readers that Paul addressed the issue of differences and that it is the differences that strengthens the body and completes the body.
We are all members of the body of Christ.
Remember always that we are all searching for the same thing TRUTH.
Arguing about spelling or a word being changed is not productive and not likely to move another writer from the conviction he feels today regarding that issue.
We are commanded to seek.
We are all seekers of the truth and not likely to take any one quote or misquote as gospel.
We are all brothers and brothers do not always have to agree but the blood maintains the family bond in this case it is the blood of Christ.
It should also be noted that every writer’s convictions today will change as the spirit of truth exposes the writer to new truths.
We are all on a journey and once God starts a work in us he is never finished.
We all know that the bible has been translated many times from the original Greek and Hebrew transcripts.
For me it has taken the study of the original Greek and Hebrew words to unravel just a small portion of the truth that the original writers were communicating.
But I am by no means an authority.
I agree that it takes a student seeking the meaning of words to unravel truth.
The meaning of words is ever changing.
I also agree that it may be helpful for all readers to see when a writers “emphasis” has been added to another’s words.
So that the spirit can minister the truth of the writers emphasis.
In this way it may help us all to see more clearly what it is that the spirit is attempting to communicate through this writer.
I do believe strongly that it is more important to listen to the spirit of the writer than to the words on the page.
Sometimes truth takes time to digest and truth is many times not seen at the moment of introduction.
We are all witnesses and the spirit works through all of us in many different ways.
YOU WILL BE MY WITNESSES, Acts 1:1-11; Key Verse: 1:8
"But ye shall receive power after that the Holy Spirit is come upon
you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all
Judea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."
Witnessing of Yashua Jesus is not only done with words; it also involves action which for me is patients.
I must in many cases stand back and wait for the spirit to communicate the writers spirit to me.
We can witness to Yashua Jesus by showing unusual courage that comes from faith and the wisdom of the spirit. Acts 4:13.
We can witness to Yashua Jesus when we respect others sacrificially in a selfish world. Acts 4:32.
We can witness to Yashua Jesus by being thankful and joyful in a time of suffering.
Acts 16:25.
The Holy Spirit enables us to witness to Yashua Jesus by both word and deed
The Bible says that we should "...follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man will see the Lord:" Hebrews 12:14
|
|
|
|
David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 10:04:24
|
1234jagal wrote:quote:
Arguing about spelling or a word being changed is not productive and not likely to move another writer from the conviction he feels today regarding that issue.
We are commanded to seek.
We are all seekers of the truth and not likely to take any one quote or misquote as gospel.
I think this distorts my complaint.
1234jagal also wrote in the same Post:quote:
We are all witnesses and the spirit works through all of us in many different ways.
YOU WILL BE MY WITNESSES, Acts 1:1-11; Key Verse: 1:8
"But ye shall receive power after that the Holy Spirit is come upon
you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all
Judea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."
Witnessing of Yashua Jesus is not only done with words; it also involves action which for me is patients [sic].
And I will simply presume that I may find Acts 1:8 verbatim in a popular Bible translation. That if you have a problem with the authority who translated that version, you will either seek another translation to cite (quote) or explain what corrections, in your humble opinion you would make to the above quote. That you would do that correctly instead of misquoting the original author. The only time you may deviate is if you are translating the Greek or Hebrew from scratch like the (other) translators. Legalbear really brought out the pernicious nature of misquoting when he misquoted Hopeofisrael on another Topic (now deleted by Admin). Hopeofisrael rightly complained about the incorrect manner of quoting others.
I like this site. If it is okay to misquote others here, then that degrades the forum.
So you either misunderstand my complaint or are in collusion with the misdirection of misquoting authors.
Regards,
David Merrill.
|
Edited by - David Merrill on 06 Mar 2005 10:19:26 |
|
|
|
1234jagal
0
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 10:16:27
|
David you misunderstand and jump again to judgement.
I do not judge you, your thoughts or written words.
On the contrary I hear you.
I was not addressing specifically your complaint.
I was trying to make a point regarding the spirit.
It is in my opinion important that we share the truth mindful of the spirit.
I like the fact that you are obviously an intelligent man.
One can learn many things from you!! But patients is not yet one or your virtues.
But with that said I believe you are a strong witness for the Kingdom.
The Spirit–filled life is the Spirit–controlled life.
Those who are filled with the Spirit will bear the fruit of the Spirit.
Paul wrote of this fruit, “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law” Galatians 5:22-23.
The Spirit that indwells you desires to control your life for your good and God’s glory.
|
|
|
|
David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 10:27:07
|
Thank you and that is quite thoughtful.
But if you read these Posts I think you will see adaquate patience applied. I even specifically warned Oneisraelite that if he kept misquoting authors and especially the Bible I would continue speaking up. In my Post just prior to him misquoting the Book of Acts above.
I do not think the Holy Spirit of God is condoning Oneisraelite's misdirection. I think it is the same enthusiasm as I experienced years ago with Joe and David SHUTT who taught him "Yahu" as a theophoric prefix. It is not theophoric. It is according to Encyclopedia Judaica and other convention a slur against God to remove his name from theophoric nature. Oneisraelite thinks it is of God but it is not. He has fallen into a deception. I think so because it is identical to something I have seen before.
If you think Christianity condones deception; I agree. But that should be kept among the deceived Christians. I really can see that within those religious parameters, we can accept an entire belief set of misdirection. So is that what I am seeing here? Well I asked Oneisraelite, not you. I asked him specifically why he feels justified to continue misquoting authors and especially the Holy Bible when he knows it really irritates me. Maybe you don't mind. But I do.
It is okay to correct even the most respected authorities. It is not okay to misquote them. You have to quote them correctly and then make your corrective remarks. |
Edited by - David Merrill on 06 Mar 2005 10:34:42 |
|
|
|
1234jagal
0
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 12:35:58
|
I agree with you that the religion of Christianity and the teachings of Christ conflict.
But we are all born in darkness until we are exposed to the light
We are all seekers of the truth and prone to believe a lie until the spirit of truth makes known the lie.
However many will gravitate to Corporate religion as a stepping stone to freedom on the path to truth.
Not necessarily will they find the truth there.
But to be exposed to the lie is sufficient to move one along the path on our journey to finding the truth.
|
|
|
|
David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2005 : 12:41:44
|
So as not to wander then. Let Oneisraelite answer for himself. He has answered me in a Private Message (PM) but I am not comfortable relaying that without his approval. Better he just answer for himself.
Oneisraelite;
What is it that causes you to feel justified in misquoting authors and Bible translators?
P.S. Oneisraelite has refused for me to cut and paste the PM. |
Edited by - David Merrill on 06 Mar 2005 22:38:29 |
|
|
|
Manuel
Advanced Member
USA
762 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 00:04:13
|
Contradicting thoughts come to mind during these topics of discussion, but I tell you that as then and now, there is nothing new under the sun. So if the "doctors of the law" and their hangers-on didn't change back then... is it not revealing that they have not changed now?
It is factual that the many revelations which came my way happened because of those "doctors of the law and their hangers-on," which then deepens as the deep calleth the deep. Similar to the story I wrote of as a tender-aged young man (about six years of age) whereby I had dreams of flying at seemingly high speeds while close to the earth's atmosphere, but seemingly slow high-above the earths hemisphere. See?... How could I have known of that optical illusion when I had never been or observed that illusion before?
Anyways, I believe that sharpening our swords has much to do with the past, as much as our present... if we somehow remember, or worse yet, forget, depending on the consciousness state of mind, heart and soul we are in.
Fathers Grace and Light be upon you and your love ones,
I am,
Manuel |
|
|
|
Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 06:01:13
|
Greetings and salutations in the name of the King, brothers and sisters,
Peace be unto the house.
Did anyone else but us notice that it was about the time that we were attempting to explain that we perceive that the Scripture is teaching us that civil death is the remedy (page three of this thread) that all these distractions suddenly came about?
So our recommendation is that we get this train back on track.
We reiterate: We are to be dead to the rudiments of the world, this is a civil death.
civil death. Law. The change of status of a person equivalent in its legal consequences to natural death. - Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, copyright 1916-60, page 151
Take careful note that it is a change of status, it is a change of condition, it is a change of state, it is a change of estates.
Let us now give you one more definition to try and tie this together more tightly, for better understanding. How do we "get to heaven", i.e. how do we enter the Kingdom of Yahuwah? We are…translated!
translate vt. 1 to move from one...condition to another; transfer; specif., a) Theol. to convey directly to heaven without death - Webster's New World Dictionary of American English, Third College Edition, copyright 1988-96, page 1421
Well not exactly "without death"; a more accurate statement would have been "without natural (physical) death". Note that in both the definition of "civil death" and that of "translate" that they are a "change of status or condition", which of course, status and condition, are synonymous.
The law of persons is the law of status or condition. - American Law and Procedure, Vol 13, page 137, 1910 [Emphasis added]
…Scope and delineation of term is necessary for determining those to whom Fourteenth Amendment of Constitution affords protection since this Amendment expressly applies to “person.” - Black's Law Dictionary, Abridged Sixth Edition, page 791 [Underlining and bolding added]
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional USA.
Ephesians 2:12 & 19
An act done by me against my will is not my act. |
|
|
|
David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 09:11:11
|
Misquoting the Holy Bible is obviously much more than a distraction in my opinion. And getting an explanation what justifies you doing it is like pulling teeth.
Admin may have a non-censor policy but being a reader here I feel the inherent right to complain when you falsify things that way. Furthermore I think Admin should specify that quotes be exact in order to protect the website from attack.
My inquiries and accusations had nothing to do with the subject matter on this 'expatriation' Topic. They were due to me having inquired and subsequently warned you about the things you write lately on ecclesia.org.
I do not find correcting you amusing so you are likely to go on misquoting and pushing your "Yahuway" and "Yahushua" doctrines uncorrected in the future. |
Edited by - David Merrill on 07 Mar 2005 09:12:51 |
|
|
|
1234jagal
0
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2005 : 09:34:29
|
oneisraelite,
I agree completely that a physical death takes place as far as the world is concerned. The physical death only occurs when the redemption and spirit birth takes place. The spirit is supreme and has preeminence over the land and flesh which includes all civil rulers.
“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence” Colossians 1:16
God has declared many times that all power and authority in the world currently exists under the rule of the kingdom of Heaven through Christ which brought completely the end of worldly rule over God’s family and citizens; “Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power”. 1Cronicles 15:24
God redeemed our bodies so that the spirit that dwells therein may serve God day and night the King of Kings.
We would never have been able to serve God if it were not for the redemption as the world held a bond debt on our flesh.
It is because of the redemption by the blood, repurchase and birth of the spirit that God now owns our bodies free and clear from any claim or lien of man.
Yashua Jesus said, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God” (John 3:5). It is though the work of the Holy Spirit you and I were born again!
This is what is meant by death!!!! We are no longer servants to the world civilized system or their goddess JUSTICE. But we are dead to the world no longer servants to the world or their goddess JUSTICE a dead man cannot be made to labor for another.
Paul verified this indwelling as he wrote, “What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own” 1 Corinthians 6:19 Again, he wrote, “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his” Romans 8:9.
No man may lay a claim on the temple of GOD!!!! It is Gods and Gods alone God declared it God bought it back and any man who denies the redemption of Christ is the Anti-Christ.
So now we have a new life in the spirit and are born again not to serve the civil rulers who have declared themselves god but to serve the one true God who redeemed us.
We are citizens of Heaven
And as citizens of the nation of Heaven!!!!
God has reserved a place for us in the world.
The bible says; "The land shall not be sold forever: for the land is Mine; for you are strangers and sojourners with Me." Leviticus 25:23. The bible teaches all the way back to Leviticus that the land is Gods and everything therein belongs to God and Gods jurisdiction reigns supreme over all world governments.
The bible teaches that God reserved for us his citizens a right to dwell upon the earth in any and all worldly government jurisdictions without becoming worldly citizens. Gods plan preserves our heavenly citizenship and our right to serve Gods Kingdom on earth.
|
|
|
|
Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2005 : 10:32:21
|
Noah Webster finished writing his handwritten Dictionary in January, 1825, at his lodgings in Cambridge, England. However, “English publishers, engaged in a new edition of Samuel Johnson’s Dictionary were indifferent of Webster’s scholarly research and refused his manuscript. Like his forebears Noah set sail for America…[and] an agreement was finally made with Sherman Converse and on May 8, 1827 the printing was begun by Hezekiah Howe in New Haven. In November, 1828, the last pages were completed and bound into two bulky quarto volumes.”
Unless there is another Webster who wrote dictionaries, it would seem a physical impossibility for anyone to have an “1827 Webster’s Encyclopedic Dictionary”, since the 1828 An American Dictionary of the English Language was apparently the only dictionary that he ever wrote (not counting his "The American Spelling Book" of 1783), and printing was not even completed until November 1828.
"When you become entitled to exercise the right of voting for public officers, let it be impressed on your mind that God commands you to choose for rulers, "just men who will rule in the fear of God." The preservation of [our] government depends on the faithful discharge of this Duty; if the citizens neglect their Duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted; laws will be made, not for the public good so much as for selfish or local purposes; corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the Laws; the public revenues will be squandered on unworthy men; and the rights of the citizen will be violated or disregarded. If [our] government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the Divine Commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the Laws." -History of United States by Noah Webster.
Perhaps we should have listened to old Noah!
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional USA.
Ephesians 2:12 & 19
An act done by me against my will is not my act. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 08 Mar 2005 12:48:04 |
|
|
|
Manuel
Advanced Member
USA
762 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2005 : 20:31:52
|
Right on oneisraelite!
Wicked rulers are around because many are wicked... period...
They love lies and hate truth.
I am,
Manuel
PS Remember, while many hu-mans adore playing chess, that does not mean that they can ever trap with the famous "CHECK-MATE." It is a silly process the "jokers" desire by being void of The true Spirit, Judge, and Almighty Father, a truth no one can challenge nor beat. And the final result is a truth I will never forget, Father willing:
"Those who plan evil in their hearts, go blind and make mistakes." |
Edited by - Manuel on 08 Mar 2005 20:46:27 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Expatriation: The remedy?
