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Greg
Advanced Member
uSA
76 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Dec 2005 : 10:42:22
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| Greetings brethren, This is my first post on this forum so first let me express my sincerest appreciation for the efforts of those who make this forum possible, including it's members whose sharing of knowledge and wisdom is invaluable. I wanted to pose a question to the forum that I have not seen come up or in any other forums, and I can't seem to find the answer. The question is this, Notaries in the Ohio area recieve their certification from the BAR association. Does this in any way render joinder or anything similar through our using them? If this is a novice question it's for good reason, I am a novice in so much as I have just recently begun my search for truth. I look forward to the forums insight in this matter. |
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Lewish
Advanced Member
uSA
496 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2005 : 19:58:24
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Hello Greg,
Actually, I am sorry to have to correct you, but you are wrong. Notaries only have the appearance of certification from the BAR. The position of Notary Public is defined by International Law, and is established in this country by Treaty under the Hague Convention. There is an excellent federal court case in your state regarding this matter. If you need the case cite, post a request and I will go look it up.
In that case, the federal judge spelled out how a Notary Public comes into being, and that neither the BAR nor the state could prevent a non-United States citizen from becoming a Notary Public due to the requirements of both Treaty Law and International Law.
To prevent joinder with the BAR, there are certain words which must be in the body of the Jurat. For example, where the text normally says something about notary for the County of XXX, State of YYY, you must use the words "in and for" instead of simply the word "for". This moves the operation of notarization from the control of the BAR/STATE to the control of International Treaty. It also moves it from the domain of the STATE, to the domain of the State.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Lewis-Vincent |
Edited by - Lewish on 16 Dec 2005 19:59:46 |
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Uncle Buck
Advanced Member
Australia
134 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2005 : 01:15:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Lewish
Hello Greg,
Actually, I am sorry to have to correct you, but you are wrong. Notaries only have the appearance of certification from the BAR. The position of Notary Public is defined by International Law, and is established in this country by Treaty under the Hague Convention. There is an excellent federal court case in your state regarding this matter. If you need the case cite, post a request and I will go look it up.
In that case, the federal judge spelled out how a Notary Public comes into being, and that neither the BAR nor the state could prevent a non-United States citizen from becoming a Notary Public due to the requirements of both Treaty Law and International Law.
To prevent joinder with the BAR, there are certain words which must be in the body of the Jurat. For example, where the text normally says something about notary for the County of XXX, State of YYY, you must use the words "in and for" instead of simply the word "for". This moves the operation of notarization from the control of the BAR/STATE to the control of International Treaty. It also moves it from the domain of the STATE, to the domain of the State.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Lewis-Vincent
Greetings one and all,
Public Notaries in Australia are certified by the State Supreme Courts. Most of the approximately 500 Notaries in NSW (New South Wales) are solicitors/lawyers. The Archbishop of Canterbury no longer appoints them via the Faculty of Courts in England. I believe this has been so since about 2002 the reason why I do not yet know? Very covert little gang are these creatures. They are administered in NSW by the lawyers union called the Law Society - fancy that!
And as I am a Justice of the Peace (under Statute since 1979) I can confirm that we State JPs have to witness documents and signatures from the Federal Jurisdiction using "Justice of the Peace in and for the State of New South Wales". I am wondering if I will sign up again - now the State has changed our JPs Act to a five year term - probably not!
Would like that Case cited please Lewis!
thanks
Rick
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If I have to be like him who is going to be like me?
James 1:25 The Perfect Law of Liberty |
Edited by - Uncle Buck on 17 Dec 2005 01:23:11 |
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Greg
Advanced Member
uSA
76 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2005 : 12:19:58
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| Greetings Lewis and Thank You for the clarification on the issuance of commission. I did however note that you said could not prevent a "non-United States citizen from becoming a notary". So it is possible to render joinder through the use of a notary then, as they are certainly nerely all "United States citizens" correct? By that statement should we only use the non- United States citizens who are notaries, if we can find such a man/woman? The stamp they use in Ohio is two parts, the first is the circular seal of Ohio and says "NOTARY PUBLIC" around the top and "STATE OF OHIO" around the bottom. The second part of the stamp is the notaries name "in all caps" followed by "Notary Public, State of Ohio" then "My Commission Expires x/xx/xxxx". They did not use the word "for" but instead the word "of", does this carry the same implifications? If it does how could one possibly alter what is written on their stamp? Is it possible to have a valid notarization that would be recognized on a document if it doesn't carry the "STATE" issued stamp? |
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Lewish
Advanced Member
uSA
496 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2005 : 12:58:19
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Hello Rick and Greg,
Rick, The case cite is 577 F. Supp 1128. I can e-mail you a copy from WestLaw if you wish.
Greg, joinder does not occur unless you invoke it. What is written on the stamp is less important than what is written on the paper. It matters not whether the notary is a U.S. citizen or not. When you put the words "in and for" the County of ..., State of..., you have moved the notarization into the International Law.
I you are really concerned about preventing joinder then use some wording similar to this "Using a notary on this document does not constitute any adhesion, nor does it alter My status in any manner."
Regards,
Lewis-Vincent |
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Uncle Buck
Advanced Member
Australia
134 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2005 : 22:43:24
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Greetings and Peace be unto the house! (love that peace!)
Little Ricky is out of the 'sin-bin' naughty boy corner.
Thanks Lewis - post that Westlaw? case please or email me.
Regards
Rick
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If I have to be like him who is going to be like me?
James 1:25 The Perfect Law of Liberty |
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Notaries
