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God is Love
Senior Member
uSA
53 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jul 2004 : 18:27:05
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Greetings all,
I pray our Father is blessing all of you with freedom, love and peace!
Here are some thoughts of my own, perhaps already mentioned (I have not read completely through the entire thread yet) so forgive me if I am being redundant.
Genesis chapter 1 verse 5 says: "And YHWH began calling the light Day, but the darkness he called Night. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a first day."
Jeremiah chapter 33 verse 20: ""This is what YHWH has said, 'If YOU people could break my covenant of the day and my covenant of the night, even in order for day and night not to occur in their time,"
My thought on these two Scriptures is that when our Father created the Day and the Night, Light and Darkness, he saw these Natural and Universal Laws as covenants, as seen in Jeremiah. Personally I feel that when it is dark, it is night, and when it is light, is it day.
Psalms chapter 19 verse 2: "One day after another day causes speech to bubble forth, And one night after another night shows forth knowledge."
Isaiah chapter 21 verse 11: "The pronouncement against Du'mah: To me there is one calling out from Se'ir: "Watchman, what about the night? Watchman, what about the night?"
Revelation chapter 16 verse 15: "Look! I am coming as a thief. Happy is the one that stays awake and keeps his outer garments, that he may not walk naked and people look upon his shamefulness.""
As the watchman's concern during the night grows, so the thief's chances of stealing away into the darkness with his prize grows as well. We also tend to sleep when it is dark, most of us anyway, if we are permitted. These Scriptures also lead me to think of Night being Darkness.
John chapter 9 verse 4: "We must work the works of him that sent me while it is day; the night is coming when no man can work."
Job chapter 10 verse 21: "Before I go away----and I shall not come back----To the land of darkness and deep shadow,"
Ecclesiastes chapter 9 verse 10: "All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She'ol, the place to which you are going."
Night, Darkness, Deep Shadow. She'ol is compared with unconsciousness, during which time we may have dreams, however, for the most part we are in relative darkness, as far as our eyes go, being shut (except for those of us who sleep with one eye open) :o)
Romans chapter 13 verse 12: "The night is well along; the day has drawn near. Let us therefore put off the works belonging to darkness and let us put on the weapons of the light."
night, darkness; day, light.
1 Thessolonians chapter 5 verse 2: "For YOU yourselves know quite well that YHWH's day is coming exactly as a thief in the night."
Matthew chapter 24 verse 36: ""Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father."
2 Peter chapter 3 verse 10: "Yet YHWH's day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered."
Revelation chapter 3 verse 3: "Therefore, continue mindful of how you have received and how you heard, and go on keeping [it], and repent. Certainly unless you wake up, I shall come as a thief, and you will not know at all at what hour I shall come upon you."
Here we see YHWH's day compared with a thief coming in the night. The signficance of the night is the darkness which hides the thief from view. Again, night being equated with darkness.
Revelation chapter 22 verse 5: "Also, night will be no more, and they have no need of lamplight nor [do they have] sunlight, because YHWH God will shed light upon them, and they will rule as kings forever and ever."
Joshuah chapter 1 verse 8: "This book of the law should not depart from your mouth, and you must in an undertone read in it day and night, in order that you may take care to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way successful and then you will act wisely."
Luke chapter 18 verse 7: "Certainly, then, shall not YHWH cause justice to be done for his chosen ones who cry out to him day and night, even though he is long-suffering toward them?"
1 Thessolonians chapter 5 verse 5: "for YOU are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness."
Revelation chapter 7 verse 15: "That is why they are before the throne of YHWH; and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them."
Revelation chapter 12 verse 10: "And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!"
I hope these Scriptures aren't redundant. I've always personally thought of day as when it is Light, and night as when it is Dark.
I will read the rest of the thread to see if I have reason to change that way of thinking.
Freedom, Love and Peace!
Mount Fuji----"without equal" |
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Walter
Advanced Member
USA
144 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2004 : 19:51:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Linc
Many pages on the net claim that the start of the Israelite year depended on the sun AND moon. Charles Wesley Ewing says that it only depended on the sun, and that seems to be the position of the posters here. I am inclined to adopt this position myself, because it makes sense and is far more orderly than the Jewish system.
However, can anyone show me biblical or archaelogical proof (no arguments from silence) that the Israelite year was a solar year? Also, Mr. Ewing said the months were 30 days each, and every half year either 3 or 2 days were added on to keep in sync.
Hi Linc,
I'm not aware of any flat-out "sun - good, moon - bad" Scripture or plain historical records. Though one Biblical passage suggests to me that there's a clear choice between moon and sun in acting as a beast or as a man: Psalm 104:19-24. And then there's the apparent discrepency between Jesus' keeping of the Passover and the Pharisees' keeping of it. See: http://home.earthlink.net/~walterk12/Xian/Cal/ChristKeptPassover.html Which means (of course) the Pharisees' lunar calendar is wrong. But I don't know of any record that people won't argue about.
Walter |
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Linc
Advanced Member
Canada
111 Posts |
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Walter
Advanced Member
USA
144 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2004 : 09:48:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Linc
Fantastic article! Make sure it stays on the web; do you mind if I mirror it?
How exactly do we know that the first of Abib falls on the vernal equinox?
Probably not, but http://www.archive.org/ is a place to find web pages that go away, so in such a case it's not really gone for good. What's your web site?
I don't know of anything that *proves* the VE starts the year, or for that matter that the first whatever moon phase so many days within the VE does either. From what I can tell it's a matter of principles that the ascending sun marks the day which is the first of the year. "The day destroys the night, night divides the day" is a lyric in a song which principle I am compelled to agree with. *Nobody* agrues that the day of the VE is not the first day of Spring (AFAIK). So likewise I see the VE marking the first day of the year. (One must understand that this principle means that at different longitudes the day may start one day apart.) I know that some claim another calendar starts in the fall, but I see no Biblical support for it. I wish there were a Biblical statement plainly stating this, but the Bible often does not accomodate my whimsey. But there is historical evidence that the VE used to be used; see my notes on the English Calendar at: http://home.earthlink.net/~walterk1/Patr/Misc/TheCalendar.html . Calendar history seems to me to be a big, hazy, don't-ask-too-much kind of thing.
I hope I've answered your question.
Walter |
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Walter
Advanced Member
USA
144 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2004 : 20:01:25
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Start of the returning of the year
Now is the waning of the 30th day of the 6th month, according to my understanding of the Biblical calendar as diagrammed here: http://home.earthlink.net/~walterk12/Xian/Cal/CalBibleQ.html
The question is: What calendar day is tomorrow?
Leviticus 23:
23* ¶ And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
24* Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
25* Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
The interesting interpretation – which was not an obvious one to me – is that this lays the requirement that the first day of the seventh month be delayed until the next weekly Sabbath (rather than a special, added Sabbath). This is confirmed by comprehending the subsequent commands for the Feast of Tabernacles (FoT).
Leviticus 23:
34* Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the LORD.
35* On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
36* Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.
37* These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:
38* Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.
39* Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.
The first day of the FoT is on 7/15 is to have a holy convocation – a Sabbath. And on the eighth day is another holy convocation (Sabbath). This understanding is given in verses 34-36 and in verse 39. This is highly suggestive that the 15th and the 22nd of the seventh month are regular, weekly Sabbaths. Just like the patterns from the Feast of Weeks where the seven Sabbaths followed by another day of Sabbath force the first day of the first month to be a regular, weekly Sabbath, so these strongly impel us to conclude that the first day of the seventh month is a regular, weekly Sabbath. (7/1, 7/8, 7/15, 7/22, …)
The Hebrew word for year is shaneh (Strong's #8141) which comes from shawnaw (Strong's #8138) which means "to fold, i.e. duplicate, to transmute, do again, double, repeat, do the second time." To illustrate this "folded" year, here is a comparison of the two halves, which is seen by the re-use of days of the seventh month for feasts as in the first month.
08138 hnv shanah shaw-naw' - from Online Bible
a primitive root; TWOT-2421; v
AV-change 7, second time 3, again 3, diverse 2, alter 1, disguise 1, doubled 1, pervert 1, preferred 1, repeateth 1, misc 1; 22
1) to repeat, do again, change, alter
1a) (Qal) to change
1b) (Niphal) to be repeated
1c) (Piel) to change, alter
1d) (Hithpael) to disguise oneself
If the pattern of the first half of the year is repeated in the second half, then it makes sense that the second half also starts on a regular, weekly sabbath.
This confirms to me that the procedure of slipping the start of the seventh month to the next weekly Sabbath is correct. (This also suggests the way to handle the start of the next year.)
So what is the day after 6/30? It must be an extra day: 6/31, followed by 6/32 and 6/33 until the next regular, weekly Sabbath which is (not 6/34 but) 7/1 – which will be September 19, 2004. |
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2004 : 17:45:16
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Greetings and salutations,
Peace be unto the house.
quote:
Originally posted by Walter
Leviticus 23:
23* ¶ And Yahuweh spake unto Moses, saying,
24* Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation...
If the pattern of the first half of the year is repeated in the second half, then it makes sense that the second half also starts on a regular, weekly sabbath.
The question we have is the first of Eythaniym “a regular, weekly sabbath”?
Leviticus 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath [#H7677], a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
H7677 - shabbathon; shab-baw-thone'; From H7676; a sabbatism or special holiday
Presuming that Dr Strong is correct this would be a “special holiday”, i.e. singular or unique.
Of the ten times shabbathon is used there is only one instance other than this verse in the Scripture where it is translated “sabbath”, in all other instances it is merely translated as “rest”.
In looking at the one exceptional verse we see that the two times that it is used they both refer to “special holidays”, i.e. the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles and the eighth day, which follows this feast.
The other question we have is if Yahuweh started His acceptable year on the vernal equinox would not the second half follow in its footsteps, so to speak, and begin on the autumnal equinox? Or did He change methodology after the first month [Abib]?
Thank you in advance for your thoughtful answers.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 17 Sep 2004 17:47:11 |
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2004 : 18:03:20
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Greetings once more and peace be unto the house.
Still more questions we are afraid. "‘Elohiym said...let them be for signs...” perhaps 12 signs, which equal 360 degrees, or one “revolution”? Since the book of Scripture is a Law Book, perhaps we should look to a law book for our answer?
John Bouvier’s 1856 Law Dictionary:
9.-5.,...DIVISION OF THE CIRCLE.
60 seconds = 1 minute
60 minutes = 1 degree
30 degrees = 1 sign
90 degrees = 1 quadrant
360 degrees, or 12 signs = 1 circumference […Or, perhaps one “revolution” as Dr Strong suggests: “shânâh; a year (as a revolution of time)”]
If this line of thinking is correct, we wonder, what are these twelve signs? And twelve is such an interesting number! And do they remain in the night sky 30 degrees each with variable numbers of days?
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 17 Sep 2004 18:35:52 |
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True North
Advanced Member
USA
163 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2004 : 10:41:16
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Greetings Oneisraelite
There was a wonderful book by Joseph A. Seiss first published by Claxton in 1882 under the title "Primeval Astronomy" and later by Kregal Publishing as "The Gospel in the Stars" (caveat - all info is from notes and may be incorrect).
The book talks or an original 48 constellations (page 160) that move 30° every month with the moon making 12 complete revolutions around the earth presenting a ladder (Jacob's?- ed.) or walkway of the zodiac. each step of the ladder has a group or contellation "sign" further subdivided into 28 "mansions of the moon" or lunar zodiac with two and a third (2 1/3) of the "mansion" embraced in each sign of the solar zodiac and each "mansion' having a name and a smaller group of stars in the "mansion".
Each one of the 12 zodiac signs has cojoined with it on either the North or South side of the Zodiacal Belt, three other constellations or "decans". [The Semitic word Dek means "part' or "piece", the Arabic word means "faces" or the word decah meaning "to break" exampled in Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake (01855) in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; also the deck or face of a ship].
36 decans superintending 10 days each and coming on the meridian line (solar ecliptic or path of the sun) at the same time as the superintending sign generally. (Astrological "squares" are calculated upon the mythology or these).
The decans of ... are ...
Constellation Virgo with the decans ...
Coma
Centaurus
Bootes
Constellation Libra with the decans ...
Crux
Lupus
Crown
Constellation Scorpio with the decans ...
Serpent
Ophiuchus or Serpentarius
Hercules
Constellation Sagittarius with the decans ...
Lyra
Ara ?
Draco
Constellation Capricornus with the decans ...
Sagitta
Aquilla
Delphinus
Constellation Aquarius with the decans ...
Southern Fish
Pegasus
Cygnus
Constellation Pisces with the decans ...
The Band
Cepheus
Andromeda
Constellation Aries with the decans ...
Perseus
Casseopeia
Cetus
Constellation Taurus with the decans ...
Orion
Eridanus
Auriga
Constellation Gemini with the decans ...
Lepus
Canus Major
Sirius
Constellation Cancer with the decans ...
Canus Minor
Procyon
Ursa minor
Constellation Leo with the decans ...
Argo
Ursa Major
Hydra
Ps 19:1 declares " ... The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork'.
The Milky Way "begins" the story with
Crux the Cross and the altar of sacrifice
moving to Scorpio and the sting of death
to the Eagle (pierced and failing) to the Swan of the cross (resurrected)
Cephus with his foot on the pole of Dominion
and Casseopeia the church set free and enthroned
Perseus, the breaker, savior of Andromeda the bride
and Auriga, the shepherd, ruling with a rod of iron, the church at his bosom
Gemini with the marriage of the lamb in the union of Christ and the church
to Orion, Slayer of death and hell leading to
Argo the anchored ship of heros
Part of the myths and legends concerning the house of Taleh/Aries, has Perseus (the Breaker in the decan of Aries) holding the head of a satan/medusa, which has been removed by his sword.
The House of Telah has a legend that ... At the command of Perseus, (the second decan of the House of Aries - the Breaker- Yeshuah), Cetus (the whale – a southern constellation) takes us to the depths of spiritual Sheol - the pit - to be sifted by a satan and his fallen angels during our wilderness walk. This is the place where we must overcome the adversary/satan. The Hebrew word, satan, reflects an adversary sent by Hashem (the name = Him) and is subject to the same.
David Fluesser put together the connection between Matthew 11:12 and Micah 2:13. And I put together the following from his, Dr. Roy Blizzard and David Biven's work.
Matthew 11:12 and its parallel Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
The reference is to Micah 2:13 but the key to the verse is strictly a Jewish thing. The midrash (or commentary on the TaNaK) refers to the breaker (Paretz, Poretz or Breach-Maker) of Micah 2:13 as Elijah and "their king" as the Messiah.
Micah 2:13 The breaker is come up before them: they have broken up, and have passed through the gate, and are gone out by it: and their king shall pass before them, and the LORD on the head of them.
In Micah 2:13, the king and the breach-maker are the same person, but the hint to the rabbinic interpretation of the verse of "their king" as the Messiah and the "breach-maker" as Elijah is easily missed.
Yeshuah points out in Matthew 11:14 that John the Baptist is the Breach-Maker who makes the breach in the rock fence of the sheepfold and goes through first. He has opened the way. He is the Elijah referred to in Malachi 3:1 and 4:5-6 who goes before the Lord to prepare His way and the King, Yeshuah, follows John.
John 10:3-42 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear His voice: and He calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
The book, "Steele's Sciences" A.S. Barnes & Co. New York first printed in 1869 declares that "Ursa Major is represented under the figure of a great bear. ... This constellation has been celebrated among all nations. It is remarkable that the shepards of Chaldea in Asia and the Iroquois Indians of America gave to it the same name".
In the preface of Steele's book he has the quip ...
"One God, one law, one element,
And one far-off Divine event
To which the whole creation moves."
TN |
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Walter
Advanced Member
USA
144 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2004 : 19:00:17
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(Confounded thing lost my reply and I'm having to re-type.)
quote:
Originally posted by oneisraelite
The question we have is the first of Eythaniym “a regular, weekly sabbath”?
Leviticus 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath [#H7677], a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
H7677 - shabbathon; shab-baw-thone'; From H7676; a sabbatism or special holiday
Presuming that Dr Strong is correct this would be a “special holiday”, i.e. singular or unique.
There is also something to be observed in relation to "holy convocations."
Lev. 23
2* Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
3* Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
There is a "holy convocation" required for 7/1. These days appear to me to be regular, weekly sabbath days and well as special sabbaths.
H7677 shabbathown {shab-baw-thone'}
from 07676; TWOT - 2323d; n m
AV - rest 8, sabbath 3, 11
1) Sabbath observance, sabbatism
1a) of weekly sabbath
1b) day of atonement
1c) sabbatical year
1d) of Feast of Trumpets
1e) of the 1st and last days of the Feast of Tabernacles
I see no problem with H7677 in regard to weekly sabbaths.
quote:
Originally posted by oneisraelite
Of the ten times shabbathon is used there is only one instance other than this verse in the Scripture where it is translated “sabbath”, in all other instances it is merely translated as “rest”.
In looking at the one exceptional verse we see that the two times that it is used they both refer to “special holidays”, i.e. the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles and the eighth day, which follows this feast.
Have you read Zec. 7:1-3 to have another explanation that the men were at the temple praying except that the day was a sabbath? (We learned from the lunar calendar thread that the temple doors are closed on other days, iirc.)
quote:
Originally posted by oneisraelite
The other question we have is if Yahuweh started His acceptable year on the vernal equinox would not the second half follow in its footsteps, so to speak, and begin on the autumnal equinox? Or did He change methodology after the first month [Abib]?
Thank you in advance for your thoughtful answers.
There are usually only 179 days from AE to VE, not leaving enough room for six 30-day months - what does one do with that? And using the principle that light rules over darkness, the VE would dominate over the AE, wouldn't you agree? (Remember the lyric I quoted in a previous post: "The day destroys the night, night divides the day.")
Have you ever laid out the whole calendar using your understandings? |
Edited by - Walter on 18 Sep 2004 19:04:44 |
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Walter
Advanced Member
USA
144 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2004 : 19:03:01
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quote:
Originally posted by oneisraelite
Still more questions we are afraid. "‘Elohiym said...let them be for signs...” perhaps 12 signs, which equal 360 degrees, or one “revolution”? Since the book of Scripture is a Law Book, perhaps we should look to a law book for our answer?
John Bouvier’s 1856 Law Dictionary:
9.-5.,...DIVISION OF THE CIRCLE.
60 seconds = 1 minute
60 minutes = 1 degree
30 degrees = 1 sign
90 degrees = 1 quadrant
360 degrees, or 12 signs = 1 circumference […Or, perhaps one “revolution” as Dr Strong suggests: “shânâh; a year (as a revolution of time)”]
If this line of thinking is correct, we wonder, what are these twelve signs? And twelve is such an interesting number! And do they remain in the night sky 30 degrees each with variable numbers of days?
It may be a curiosity but I see none of this supported by the Bible. I agree that the zodiac proclaims the glory of IAUE but the calendar is not, afaict, tied the those constelations, but is tied to the VE. |
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member
uSA
833 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2004 : 08:00:45
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Greetings and salutations, brethren:
Peace be unto the house.
True North, we thank you for your response. Is it just I, or do you too find that stuff to be confusing? And you no doubt know what we would say to that. ; )
The reason we asked those questions concerning the twelve “signs” [constellations] is because each of these remain “thirty degrees” [NOT thirty days] before the appearance of the next “sign” at its appointed position.
Walter, we thank you as well for your thoughtful replies. And as to your “thirty days” query [“…only 179 days from AE to VE”], please see our answer above.
quote:
H7677 shabbathown {shab-baw-thone'}
from 07676; TWOT - 2323d; n m
AV - rest 8, sabbath 3, 11
1) Sabbath observance, sabbatism
1a) of weekly sabbath
1b) day of atonement
1c) sabbatical year
1d) of Feast of Trumpets
1e) of the 1st and last days of the Feast of Tabernacles
I see no problem with H7677 in regard to weekly sabbaths.
We do not wish to be argumentative only to point out that it seems to specifically refer to appointed times like the “time of atonement”, “Feast of Trumpets” and “the 1st and last times of the Feast of Tabernacles,” and it appears to be a “Sabbath observance”, which we take to mean, it is “treated like a weekly sabbath”; if not we would question why the use of the separate word [shabbathown] for these particular times?
Another very important thing we wish to point out while we are on this subject is the fact that chatsotserah is the Hebrew word for trumpet, while chatsotser is the Hebrew word meaning “to sound the trumpet”; and shophar seems to be the Hebrew word for “ram’s horn”, or “curved horn” as Dr Strong puts it, none of which we see for the 1st of Eythaniym. Notice also that there is no Strong’s number attached to “blowing” though there is an Hebrew word for this.
Our point is this, we perceive that this is a “time of acclamation”, which we understand to be “shouts”. Noah Webster tells us that acclamations are often repeated a number of times. How many times? We can only venture a S.W.A.G. [Scientific Wild Ass Guess]. It is our perception that the word shabbath comes from the word shaba which means to "seven oneself", that is, to make a solemn oath “by repeating or declaring seven times”, thus this “acclamation” would be repeated seven times; and what better time to "seven oneself to Yahuweh" than on the first of the seventh month, called Eythaniym? And we further perceive that one should be very careful before taking this oath [performing this Sevening] because the root of Eythaniym [“enduring”] is eythan and means perpetual, constant, permanent and/or permanence and technically has nothing whatsoever to do with literal brooks or streams. Thus, this is the “revolutionary [yearly] time” of renewing our Oath of Allegiance to Yahuweh and his perpetual government, and to break this Oath of Allegiance is to commit High Treason against the King once more; and the caveat [warning] is this, if we do, it is our understanding that there will be no one to “ransom” us this time around.
And speaking of “praying at the temple”, Walter, here is a tidbit that may interest many of us in this forum. It would seem that the people "(…gathered on the Mount of Olives at festivals to await the opening of the doors of the Temple at midnight)". If this information is true, the question we have, is why would the Temple doors be opened at midnight?
At midnight I will rise to give thanks unto thee because of thy righteous judgments. Psalm 119:62
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
Edited by - Oneisraelite on 23 Sep 2004 10:36:24 |
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Walter
Advanced Member
USA
144 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2004 : 09:17:07
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quote:
Originally posted by oneisraelite
Greetings and salutations, brethren:
Peace be unto the house.
True North, we thank you for your response. Is it just I, or do you too find that stuff to be confusing? And you no doubt know what we would say to that. ; )
The reason we asked those questions concerning the twelve “signs” [constellations] is because each of these remain “thirty degrees” [NOT thirty days] before the appearance of the next “sign” at its appointed position.
Walter, we thank you as well for your thoughtful replies. And as to your “thirty days” query [“…only 179 days from AE to VE”], please see our answer above.
Who man's the observatories and runs the computers to tell exactly when these signs of the zodiac are entered? How do you know when one degree-day ends and the next starts? It could start in the middle of the day(light). How would one order one's affairs? How would a dirt farmer in the middle of nowhere keep this calendar? Or even one near the city of Jerusalem? Is there a radio broadcast network to tell the farm worker that the sabbath is about to start and he needs to head in at, oh let's say, 1:36 pm in the bright of the day?
No, OneIsraelite, I do not accept this construction of the calendar becuase it requires an unreasonably scientifically advanced and ordered society. It would require printed time tables for everyone to observe. Miss a sabbath deadline in the middle of the afternoon? Oops: working on the sabbath will probably get you killed.
But sundown is hard to miss. And it always happens in the same part of the day (though not at the same clock time). There is no reason to believe that Biblical calendar months are not all thrity days, and much evidence that days always start at sundown. As I keep saying: lay out the calendar according to your construction; if it is workable, then there's more to talk about; but if it self-destructs because your premises do not fit with each other, then you know to throw it out. It's one thing to see apparent connections and relationships between words and names and such; but it is completely another thing to assume these are operative in the ways you suggest. Lay out the calendar, tack everything in place, check it with Scripture, and then we'll see where it leads.
quote:
Originally posted by oneisraelite
And speaking of “praying at the temple”, Walter, here is a tidbit that may interest many of us in this forum. It would seem that the people "(…gathered on the Mount of Olives at festivals to await the opening of the doors of the Temple at midnight)". If this information is true, the question we have, is why would the Temple doors be opened at midnight?
At midnight I will rise to give thanks unto thee because of thy righteous judgments. Psalm 119:62
I believe I mentioned before in relation to this verse:
Ps 104:19 He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down.
that the "seasons"/feasts/assemblies may be done at night (at the first part of the new day) using the light reflected by the moon as a night-light.
But the men talked about in Zec. 7:1-3 were praying at the temple, almost certainly during the light of the day, on 9/4. Is 9/4 a sabbath on your calendar? It is on the one I've laid out - which is evidence to me that I'm on the right track... |
Edited by - Walter on 23 Sep 2004 09:18:57 |
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Walter
Advanced Member
USA
144 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2004 : 10:13:12
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The Feast of Tabernacles
The first day of the Feast of Tabernacles is a Sabbath on 7/15 (Ethanim 15). That day is today, Sunday, October 3rd, 2004.
--- Day of Atonement
I missed posting a message on the Day of Atonement, 7/10, which was on September 28th. One work I have on the calendar marks this day as a day of fasting, though I do not see scripture saying that per se. Scripture does say we are to “afflict our souls” which may be equivalent. But it clearly is a Sabbath day wherein we are not to do any work.
Exodus 30:1-10.
…
10* And Aaron shall make an atonement upon the horns of it once in a year with the blood of the sin offering of atonements: once in the year shall he make atonement upon it throughout your generations: it is most holy unto the LORD.
Leviticus 16:
29 ¶ And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you:
30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.
Leviticus 23:
26* And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
27* Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.
28* And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.
Numbers 29:
7* And ye shall have on the tenth day of this seventh month an holy convocation; and ye shall afflict your souls: ye shall not do any work therein:
8* But ye shall offer a burnt offering unto the LORD for a sweet savour; one young bullock, one ram, and seven lambs of the first year; they shall be unto you without blemish:
And on jubilee years the trumpet is to be sounded on this day.
Leviticus 25:
8* ¶ And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years.
9* Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.
---- Feast of Tabernacles
The Feast of Tabernacles runs from 7/15 to 7/21, with a Sabbath on the eighth day, 7/22. (As I have previously posted, this leads me to believe these days are regular, weekly Sabbaths confirming that 7/1 is delayed until the next weekly Sabbath rolls around.)
Leviticus 23:
34* Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the LORD.
35* On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
36* Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.
37* These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:
38* Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.
39* Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.
There was to be an offering on each day of the feast.
Numbers 29:12-36
12 ¶ And on the fifteenth day of the seventh month ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work, and ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days:
…
17* And on the second day ye shall offer twelve young bullocks, two rams, fourteen lambs of the first year without spot:
…
20* And on the third day eleven bullocks, two rams, fourteen lambs of the first year without blemish;
…
23* And on the fourth day ten bullocks, two rams, and fourteen lambs of the first year without blemish:
…
26* And on the fifth day nine bullocks, two rams, and fourteen lambs of the first year without spot:
…
29* And on the sixth day eight bullocks, two rams, and fourteen lambs of the first year without blemish:
…
32* And on the seventh day seven bullocks, two rams, and fourteen lambs of the first year without blemish:
…
35* On the eighth day ye shall have a solemn assembly: ye shall do no servile work therein:
36* But ye shall offer a burnt offering, a sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD: one bullock, one ram, seven lambs of the first year without blemish:
The command is to dwell in booths (tents?). (I’ve read/heard that the custom of Israel was to sleep on their rooftops during this feast.)
Nehemiah 8:
13* ¶ And on the second day were gathered together the chief of the fathers of all the people, the priests, and the Levites, unto Ezra the scribe, even to understand the words of the law.
14* And they found written in the law which the LORD had commanded by Moses, that the children of Israel should dwell in booths in the feast of the seventh month:
The feast is to be kept at a place IAUE would choose, and the men are to bring an offering.
Deuteronomy 16:13
13* Thou shalt observe the feast of tabernacles seven days, after that thou hast gathered in thy corn and thy wine:
14* And thou shalt rejoice in thy feast, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite, the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are within thy gates.
15* Seven days shalt thou keep a solemn feast unto the LORD thy God in the place which the LORD shall choose: because the LORD thy God shall bless thee in all thine increase, and in all the works of thine hands, therefore thou shalt surely rejoice.
16* Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty:
17 Every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee.
Deuteronomy 14:22-27 also appears to speak of the Feast of Taberncales, being at the time after the harvest:
Deuteronomy 14:
22* ¶ Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23* And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
26* And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.
Make note that Deut. 16:14 speaks of harvest time. This is one witness – to counter those who would start the year in the autumn – that the year really does start in the spring.
Has anyone studied this Feast? I've not had the chance to really study it out, but I wanted to post this message on this day anyway, being the first day of the FoT. |
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Cornerstone Foundation
Advanced Member
uSA
254 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 13:24:01
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To the Eccelsia:
It is our current understanding that:
1. Yahweh gave our ancient Hebrew ancestors provisions for a solar calendar to live and serve Him by.
2. The calendar most prevalently used in our society today is the Julian/Gregorian calendar.
3. When the Gregorian calendar is overlaid onto the Hebrew calendar....the 1st day of the tenth Hebrew month began at 12:00 noon on Gregorian 12-19-2004 and ends at 12:00 noon on Gregorian 12-20-2004.
Can any of you confirm or deny any of the three statements enumerated above.
If our understanding is incorrect concerning these matters, we would like very much to make the appropriate adjustments.
Thank you for your help.
Marty |
Edited by - Cornerstone Foundation on 20 Dec 2004 13:26:48 |
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Walter
Advanced Member
USA
144 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2004 : 15:11:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Cornerstone Foundation
To the Eccelsia:
It is our current understanding that:
1. Yahweh gave our ancient Hebrew ancestors provisions for a solar calendar to live and serve Him by.
2. The calendar most prevalently used in our society today is the Julian/Gregorian calendar.
3. When the Gregorian calendar is overlaid onto the Hebrew calendar....the 1st day of the tenth Hebrew month began at 12:00 noon on Gregorian 12-19-2004 and ends at 12:00 noon on Gregorian 12-20-2004.
Can any of you confirm or deny any of the three statements enumerated above.
If our understanding is incorrect concerning these matters, we would like very much to make the appropriate adjustments.
The first two I can agree with. The third I cannot, for two reasons. 1) The Biblical day starts at sundown. 2) According to my keeping of the calendar, the first day of the tenth month started at sundown last Friday night - i.e. at this moment it is 10/3. |
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Mark
Senior Member
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 17:44:56
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A CASE FOR THE 12 HOUR SABBATH
http://www.geocities.com/star_sraw/sabbathday.html
If anyone is interested, I fond this article very interesting and others might also. Haven’t read the whole thing yet, for it is quite long, but working on it.
The evidence presented at the beginning of the article seemed quite flimsy, but as I progress through the article it gets more convincing.
It would be nice to hear feedback on this article from others.
Peace, Mark
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Edited by - Mark on 21 Dec 2004 17:57:03 |
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Robert-James
Advanced Member
uSA
353 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2004 : 18:25:38
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Greetings All,
the fourth season started today at 7:42 a.m. tenth month, first day, of seventy fourtwelve A.A.
Three months shall follow till the first day of the first month. Approximately 88 + days.
The four quarters are not divided evenly, as per 91.91.91.91.
The Giza pyramid has this math built into it.
The priests of Seth and Enoch always kept the time, and announced when the next month was to come about. This is the "so called" new moon of KJV fame.
Sabbath day's weekly and yearly, are timed from the first day of Spring. One Abib.
The babylonian priests celebrated today as the death of the sun. In three day's, the sun will come alive again. Someplace in time, X-mas came into cretin beings. "And they sent gifts to one another"...why? because the two 'witnesses' died.
It is all so cornballed up, one must study to shew himself approved.
Betcha that 88+ days from today is spring.
It is getting through the next summer that counts.
Happy winter? Well, stay warm, and plan as best as one will.
Robert
I have written non-statuary abatements which dated the writings according to the scriptural plan. The abatements stand. Truth is truth.
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Walter
Advanced Member
USA
144 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 08:21:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark
A CASE FOR THE 12 HOUR SABBATH
http://www.geocities.com/star_sraw/sabbathday.html
...
It would be nice to hear feedback on this article from others.
The pattern (both night and then "day" constitute a day):
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Followed (from even unto even):
Leviticus 23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.
Again followed (dark/night marks beginning of a Biblical day):
Nehemiah 13:19 And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark (Strong's #06751) before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.
Times of day distinguished (so people can't claim even is at daybreak or noon):
Psalm 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
If the article has so many words, it has to be because it takes so many to confuse and distort the plain truth, IMNSHO. If a "biblical" article doesn't rest firmly on the Bible itself, you have to know it's resting on man's distortion. |
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Walter
Advanced Member
USA
144 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 08:29:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Robert-James
Approximately 88 + days.
Robert,
Can you tell me how to number the days of the last three months? (They can't all have 30 days as 88 is two short.) Also, since IIRC you start the year with a Sabbath, could you tell me 9/4 (Zec. 7:1-3) is also a Sabbath according to your calendar?
Thanks.
Walter |
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Mark
Senior Member
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2004 : 09:17:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Walter
The pattern (both night and then "day" constitute a day):
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Followed (from even unto even):
Leviticus 23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.
Again followed (dark/night marks beginning of a Biblical day):
Nehemiah 13:19 And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark (Strong's #06751) before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.
Times of day distinguished (so people can't claim even is at daybreak or noon):
Psalm 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
If the article has so many words, it has to be because it takes so many to confuse and distort the plain truth, IMNSHO. If a "biblical" article doesn't rest firmly on the Bible itself, you have to know it's resting on man's distortion.
Short, sweet & simple. 
Thanks Walter
Peace, Mark |
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The Biblical (Solar) Calendar
