| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
n/a
deleted
19 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Feb 2004 : 20:43:29
|
Has anyone had problems with not being able to get a passport because of NOD (Notices of Deficiencies)?
Thanks,
Fogless |
|
|
DanielJacob
Advanced Member
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2004 : 13:30:56
|
Ahh, Why would one want a passport unless they considered themselves commercial cargo?
Peace. |
 |
|
|
kirkguardian
Junior Member
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2004 : 17:25:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by DanielJacob
Ahh, Why would one want a passport unless they considered themselves commercial cargo?
That's not a particularly helpful response. I would assume the reason fogless thinks he needs a passport is for the same reason most other people apply for passports -- they're required for most international travel. That's been the case for some years now, and it's just that much more the case post-9/11.
Having traveled extensively myself, I can attest to the fact that you're very likely to get put right back on the same plane you just got off of if you don't produce a valid, government-issued passport immediately upon arrival at most nations' port of entry.
Furthermore, many nations, more now than ever, also require that you arrive with a government-issued visa in hand. Failure to secure that government's visa prior to arrival will also, in all likelihood, result in you're being immediately ushered back aboard your plane.
Fogless, have you in fact been "denied" a passport? If so, how were you notified of that denial?
The IRS has no authority or jurisdiction to intervene in passport matters. The issuance of passports is not predicated upon whether you file and pay taxes. However, DOJ can intervene if there's a pending criminal tax matter against you (if you've been indicted, or are about to be indicted), and they believe you're a flight risk.
Passport applications do require the disclosure of your SSN. If you don't furnish one, or claim that you don't have one, the passport office sends a copy of your application to the IRS to verify if you have a number or not. If you claim you don't have one on the passport form, but in point of fact you do have a number on file, the passport office is likely to throw your application in the circular file without notifying you of anything. If they're nice about it, they'll inform you that you can reapply and furnish a valid SSN.
If you've never been issued an SSN (such as in the case of my own children), and the passport office can verify that fact, they will issue you a passport. |
|
|
|
Caleb
Advanced Member
Philippines
209 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2004 : 03:52:24
|
When a prosecutor knew he was going to have trouble pinning the ALL CAPS name on me, he asked me, "How did you come into the country?" From my accent he knew I was not a native. Like a trained parrot, I admitted coming in with a passport. At the next court hearing he used this one fact very much against me.
This raises several issues:
1) Why did he have to ask? Doesn't EVERYONE come into the country with a passport? Don't they HAVE to have one to do so? Hmmmmm...
2) How is it he used this AGAINST me in court? Wasn't I a good law-abiding citizen who entered his country "legally" because I showed a passport? Double Hmmmmm...
Fact is, a lawful man does not need a passport to travel God's earth. Only a State owned and controlled citizen/resident needs one to enter another State. It is how these corporations keep track of their property. Or, as Daniel Jacob rightly pointed out, how they track and transfer the commercial cargo you are confessing to being.
Those lines they call "borders" are imaginary. "The Matrix is a prison for your mind." Remember Neo going through the metal detector? That was Immigration and Customs he was passing through.
He forgot his passport.
"Of the increase of His government and peace there shall be no end"
Isaiah 9:7 |
|
|
|
kirkguardian
Junior Member
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2004 : 09:55:25
|
I won't argue with either your position Caleb, or Daniel Jacob, on a philosophical basis, because I happen to agree with you both. But your understanding of both the law, and the reality of the world in which we live, is far more idealistic than it is realistic.
I don't like having to use a passport in my international travels, but use it I must. That IS the reality, not the Matrix.
It is you who is living in the Matrix if you think you can sashay across any "imaginary border" in the world you like. Sovereign nations have long-guarded their borders and determined who to allow in and who to refuse access to. Passports are one mechanism they use to authenticate who is requesting access to their country.
However, passports aren't the only mechanism. For example, if you're a "U.S. citizen" (let's please avoid 14th amendment arguments here for the moment) you don't need a U.S. issued passport to get back in the U.S. All you need is a government-issued picture ID.
Things have gotten so bad post-9/11 that an Amish man was refused re-entry to the U.S. last night at the Canada-U.S. border because he couldn't produce a picture ID. The U.S. Border Patrol have long granted re-entry to the Amish because they know their religion prohibits their taking pictures (based upon their interpretation of the 2nd commandment).
This morning, an Amish man sits stranded in Ontario, Canada because the U.S. Office of Homeland Security refuses to acknowledge the man's religious convictions. Nor will they make an exception for him. Obviously, Tom Ridge has become extremely concerned about a possible terrorist threat from English-speaking German-accent Caucasian men in plain black cloths without buttons and funny beards and black hats bringing weapons of mass destruction into the U.S. in their horse-drawn black buggies.
I'm sure our Amish friend in Ontario would love to hear that the border he was just turned away from last night is really just imaginary. |
|
|
|
BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2004 : 10:23:43
|
Well put Kirkgaurdian. BONDAGE is here sanctioned by YHWH per Deut 28, Lev 26 and the 4th Kingdom (ROMAN)rule foretold by Daniel. I am still waiting to see someone actually back up this standing on the land claim concerning the inheritance of the Kingdom by going and marking boarders on unoccupied NATIONAL forest land, clearing it for house, pasture and farming. Sure one can travel about and get thrown in jail for a couple of days over no TAGS and DL but why do they not go claim their inheritance if their positions are correct? Why? this action is much more than a misdemeanor.
|
|
|
|
Lewish
Advanced Member
uSA
496 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2004 : 00:27:43
|
Dear Kirkguardian,
You don't have to have a "passport" to travel the world. At least not in any of the countries which are party to the Hague Convention, which happens to number about 193 countries.
What you want is an Apostille for In Itinere Status. You can find the information for the paperwork on the web. Complete it and take it to the office of the Secretary of State in your home state, and have it Apostilled by the Secretary. You now have photo identity and verification of your citizenship (which is none). You are Done.
I have some friends who have travelled from South Carolina to many countries around the world since 9/11 using this method. No problems anywhere.
Hope this helps.
Lewis |
|
|
|
Manuel
Advanced Member
USA
762 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2004 : 01:09:23
|
| "A sailor chooses the wind that takes the ship from safe port... but winds have a mind of their own." |
Edited by - Manuel on 07 Mar 2004 01:10:24 |
|
|
|
Caleb
Advanced Member
Philippines
209 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2004 : 20:53:38
|
Dear Kirk,
Once we understand the "idealistic" we can then seek the solution that conforms to it, rather than continuing to be slaves to the "realistic." Though I was unaware, until Lewis shared it, of a simple and superior alternative to the passport, I was confident enough that it must exist to burn my passport with no intention of ever applying for another one.
Passports have only enjoyed wide-spread use since World War One. That's yesterday in the big scheme of things. To this day Sovereign nations do not guard their borders with them. Corporate States guard their membership roles with them. This distinction is crucial to understand if you are ever going to escape the Matrix. Start thinking like a sovereign and soon you will find that you are one.
Dear Steven (BatKol),
You discount the baby steps one must take in learning to exit Babylon. It is far better to throw away your driver's license and tags and face minor charges over that than to be accused of terrorism as your first encounter with the BEAST. I would never tell someone to get rid of their passport until they could travel freely within their own country without fear. You are basically accusing those who are on the path out of Babylon of being hypocrites because they are not already entirely free. Unfortunately, this is an all too predictable response from those not willing to make the journey themselves. I hear this kind of accusation all the time, because I am not completely free myself.
You go on and on about contracts. There is a simple answer. Don't sign any contract until you agree to all the terms on it. You'd be amazed at how much you can scratch through and still have the other party do business with you. If it says you promise to obey ALL FEDERAL, STATE and LOCAL "LAWS", scratch it out. If asked, explain that you have not read all those "laws" and therefore cannot possibly agree to obey them all. The other party will probably laugh with understanding, because he has not read them all either.
This stuff is so simple, even a child could understand it. Fact is, I think only a child can understand it. We are too well-trained to lie to ourselves, and thereby stay in bondage. Take the Apostille that Lewis mentions. Do you know what it is? It is basically a Notary Public stamp from your Secretary of State that is recognized as "legal" in 193 countries. What does it take to "qualify" for an Apostille? About 45 FRNs.
I know some fellas who drafted up a rather poor document claiming they were ambassadors. They sent it in with the appropriate fee and now have an Apostille from the Secretary of State that says right on it that they are ambassadors. I'm told its a real fancy, official-type document. Intimidates the heck out of the local cops.
I haven't tried this, because I needed the education that came from the ten days I spent in jail last year. But when it comes time to travel internationally, what Lewis has revealed sounds ideal. I don't really see any reason to be detained by Immigration as a potential terrorist. Actually, the real challenge is getting ON the plane. The "law" these corporate States depend upon is so flimsy that they get private companies like airlines to do the enforcing for them. If they had to actually drag you into court, there is too high a risk they would lose.
Now what should our Amish friend do? How about stop asking the corporate State to uphold "religious freedom" and simply stop consenting to their control over him? Like most Anabaptists, he has forgotten from whence he came. They used to be set-apart, accepting death rather than bowing down to lawless governments. Today they willingly bow to Caesar, then beg him to please leave them alone. Guess what? Caesar is not in the business of leaving his slaves alone. He rather enjoys meddling in every aspect of their life. So the only answer is to stop being his slave. You volunteered in, and can volunteer out just as fast. Of course he won't want to let you go, so there might be a price to pay. But if you can't pay the price, then you really are Caesar's property after all.
Your point about bondage being Yahweh's punishment is true enough. However, the seventy years of captivity are up. The 2730 years of captivity are over. Do the math. The year of Jubilee is at hand. "The Matrix is a prison for your mind." There are no cops, guns, prisons or anything keeping you in Babylon. You carry a driver's license, pay taxes, etc. etc. all because you want to. We already have a government system based upon the perfect law of liberty. We have simply chosen not to access it. Instead we accepted Caesar's deal. It seemed like a good choice at the time. We believed those who told us we had to. "You've been living in a dream world, Neo."
Let me tell you a story about "standing on the land." If you get out a good sized map of New Zealand, just North of the city of Tauranga you will see Mayor Island. Depending on the map detail, you may see it designated as National Park. What the map will not tell you is who has laid lawful claim to that island. It started when she trespassed some thirty years ago. She had no idea what she was doing at the time, but she also knew she was right and wasn't going to let cops, guns or jail time tell her otherwise. It is a long story, but today she merely has to descibe the "use" she has for the island and it is hers.
She cannot "own" it, for "for the land shall not be sold forever" and so long as she has no use for it, it remains National Park. But the moment she comes up with a plan for how she wants to use it, her lawful claim will be recognized. This is not theory. I have met this lady. She had to fight through the court system for years, most fighting pointless battles in fictious COURTS until she finally learned how the game was really played. Eventually she landed in the Court of Winchester - the Queen's own court, and they gave her what she asked for. Today she helps others avoid much of the tail-chasing she had to go through.
Stop worrying about what others are doing wrong. Learn from them, then move on if they seem stuck in a rut. Take full responsibility for your own actions. This is what sovereignty is all about. So long as you are making excuses, you are not ready to build the True Kingdom.
"Of the increase of His government and peace there shall be no end"
Isaiah 9:7 |
|
|
|
BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2004 : 01:32:06
|
Caleb said: You are basically accusing those who are on the path out of Babylon of being hypocrites because they are not already entirely free.
Steve: Freedom will not come until Daniel 12:1 and 'all of the things written in the book have come to pass'.
Caleb: Unfortunately, this is an all too predictable response from those not willing to make the journey themselves. I hear this kind of accusation all the time, because I am not completely free myself.
Steve: I have seen first hand this doctrine in action. Having seen what I have seen and researched what backs up their positions, I believe the illeged cure is no better than the punishment! Why? Because the Moshiach ben David has not yet come, else we would see weapons turned to plowshares, everybody from the least to the greatest knowing YHWH, etc.... ALSO...Because the 4th Kingdom spoken of in Daniel 11 and 12 has not yet been defeated.... obviously. Read Daniel's last vision from about 11 up to 12:1.
Caleb: You go on and on about contracts. There is a simple answer. Don't sign any contract until you agree to all the terms on it. You'd be amazed at how much you can scratch through and still have the other party do business with you. If it says you promise to obey ALL FEDERAL, STATE and LOCAL "LAWS", scratch it out. If asked, explain that you have not read all those "laws" and therefore cannot possibly agree to obey them all. The other party will probably laugh with understanding, because he has not read them all either.
Steve: Thanks for the advice. I'll try it on my DL and various utilities given the next chance!
Caleb: But if you can't pay the price, then you really are Caesar's property after all.
Steve: Nope. Even when being SUBJECT to the punishments of Duet 28, Lev 26, or in EXILE, or under a 1 SAM 8 KING remember Psalms 24:1 - The earth belongs to YHWH. Everything in it is His own. The world belongs to YHWH. Everybody in it is his own.
Caleb: Your point about bondage being Yahweh's punishment is true enough. However, the seventy years of captivity are up. The 2730 years of captivity are over. Do the math. The year of Jubilee is at hand.
Steve: Seventy weeks of Years is 490 but..... Why does everyone stop at that vision of Daniel? What about the last vision? The bottom line question to all of this would be, when do you think that Daniel 12:1 was fulfilled wherein all of the things written in the book came to pass? I think it is coming soon, but you would have to say that it has already come to maintain your position, no? When did the weapons get turned to plowshares? Since when has everyone from the least to the greastest known YHWH? Last time I looked out the window I was still seeing Daniel 11:36.
Caleb: It is a long story, but today she merely has to descibe the "use" she has for the island and it is hers.
She cannot "own" it, for "for the land shall not be sold forever" and so long as she has no use for it, it remains National Park. But the moment she comes up with a plan for how she wants to use it, her lawful claim will be recognized. This is not theory. I have met this lady. She had to fight through the court system for years, most fighting pointless battles in fictious COURTS until she finally learned how the game was really played. Eventually she landed in the Court of Winchester - the Queen's own court, and they gave her what she asked for. Today she helps others avoid much of the tail-chasing she had to go through.
Steve: Let me know how you do concerning your inheritance. It seems to me that there is nothing standing in your way. After reading your post it seems that you may very well be packing your bags to go stand on land. Do keep us posted as I have not seen anybody here in USA willing to do what this lady has done. So far I have only seen RENTERS, FRNS, and day JOBS. I sincerely do wish you success on this
next phase of your Freedom. I look forward to your response to the above.
|
Edited by - BatKol on 08 Mar 2004 02:25:01 |
|
|
|
Caleb
Advanced Member
Philippines
209 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2004 : 05:51:27
|
Dear Brother Steven,
There seem to be two things standing in your way. The first is reflected in a question you asked me in another thread: "What is your justification for staying in? You yourself said that you were not yet free."
Revelation again, "To him who overcomes ..." This and countless other scriptures show that we have a part to play. I was raised in a circus, I mean church, where we were taught to sit around waiting for the rapture. Meanwhile, there was nothing else for us to do but tell people to "accept JEEEZUS" and spend the rest of their life sitting around waiting with us.
You have come up with an Old Testament version of the same doctrine. A few years back (three to be exact) the Father had to jolt me out of my complacency and start showing me He had a plan and I had a role in it. This did not fit my theology. I knew a very long list of things that had to happen first, like Daniel 12:1, etc. Eventually I would see that I was to play a part in making them happen. You can be too.
I am not staying in Babylon, therefore I have nothing to justify. I am on my way out. Your theology appears to demand that this transformation take place in the twinkling of an eye. Mine did too until God showed me otherwise.
The second stumbling block appears to be the fruits you see in others who are on the path out of Babylon. Wrecked marriages are not a pretty sight, and I had to have mine destroyed before I could see the Father's purpose in it. Today I am working towards a new marriage to the same woman. But that is a discussion for another day.
I agree that people can be guilty of overestimating just where they are on the path out of Babylon. The brothers here you take issue with claim to be much farther down the track than you give them credit for. While ego may creep into the equation, I think their primary desire is to get you on the same path, not judge you for not being where they are. Watching someone exit Babylon while not doing it yourself is like watching sausage being made. It can turn you off to the finished product forever.
I grew up without a father, and for years I sought that one man who would fill the void that had left in my life. Man after man disappointed me horribly. Finally, well into adulthood I came to accept that no man would ever live up to my expectations. From that day forward God brought men into my life who had something to offer, but also had glaring deficiencies. They would father me in one area while I held my nose regarding some other aspect of their personality. Then, when their role was finished, along would come another who had something completely different to teach me. Not one of these men came close to my ideal for a father, but I remain deeply grateful for the immeasurable blessing they were to me. Once I ceased finding fault, I received the nurture I had been seeking for all those years as a child.
So my admonition is: join us on the path, stop finding fault, and at the very least remove yourself from the multitude who only know how to shoot fiery darts at us as we depart Babylon.
To respond to your other points:
Viewing our present state as merely one of bondage misses the incredible position the Father has put us in. It is like looking at the world in only two dimensions. We are not merely under a system of government based on the revived Roman (civil) law. Rather, we are under a system of government based on God's Law with an optional choice to affiliate based on Roman law instead. But the Roman side is entirely fictional. God's Law is the real. That we have almost everyone living in a dream world shows how pervasive the deception is, just a Paul warned us. But we have the free-will to choose otherwise. (I am a five-point Calvinist, so lets not go down that track)
The last days will be like the days of Noah and like the days of Lot. One heard Yahweh's voice, planned well ahead of the catastrophe and was protected, along with his family as a result. The other remained oblivious to the times he was in and had to be snatched out of the fire at the last moment. Things didn't turn out nearly so well for him. In Revelation 2 and 3 we have only two ecclesias that are without rebuke (they are also the two that have dealings with the Synagogue of Satan). One is protected while the other is persecuted. See the pattern? You can remain in Babylon until the bitter end, but what will happen to you when the angel cries "mightily with a strong voice saying, 'Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen...'"? Those of us who have built our ark will be protected. Revelation twelve tells the same story.
You talk about things you are looking for as proof that the bondage is over. How about this one: "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness to all nations; and then the end shall come." It is the pivotal sign in Matthew 24. Everything before it is the preview (birth pangs) and everything after it is "the end." The end of what? The world's evil system, not the earth. Who is going to preach the kingdom but those who are already living it - before the end! You make no distinction between "entering" and "inheriting" the kingdom, but you are really defending the same theological position I heard in churches all my life. Everything is pie-in-the-sky. Nothing is here and now.
In closing you said, "So far I have only seen RENTERS, FRNS, and day JOBS." As Morpheus announced, "Welcome to the desert of the real!" Even Exodus tells us that the way to the Promised Land is through the desert. Having just spend two years in a desert experience, I can tell you it is not much fun. But it is inevitable once you determine to leave Egypt (or Babylon). With no one having already blazed a trail, we are figuring this out one step at a time. It invariably means the loss of many of those trappings by which the world measures success. But I hear you judging others both for what they lack (land, for example) and also for what they have (electricity, internet). How about picking one and commending them for the other?
I do have to admit that many have approached this with too much of a defeatist attitude, but then you have to realize this is Yahweh you are judging. He has awakened each of us in His perfect timing and showed us what He wanted us doing then. That we cannot yet see the way clear to the fullness of the kingdom is because He is not yet ready to reveal it. If you do the math, you will find that the seventy years of our present captivity is just now ending. Might this be why freedom has proven so elusive until now? And is it coincidence that the insights into how to free ourselves are now coming in like a flood? Cast your lot in with the King and see what He shows you.
"Of the increase of His government and peace there shall be no end"
Isaiah 9:7 |
|
|
|
BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2004 : 12:15:21
|
Caleb said: There seem to be two things standing in your way. The first is reflected in a question you asked me in another thread: "What is your justification for staying in? You yourself said that you were not yet free."
Revelation again, "To him who overcomes ..." This and countless other scriptures show that we have a part to play.
Steve: "Overcomes" what is the key issue. Insert doctine and opinion here. Yes, we have a part to play because YHWH scripted it in advance per Isaiah 46:9. That YHWH is the ultimate Sovereign is
much bigger than either of us 'being right'.
Caleb said: I was raised in a circus, I mean church, where we were taught to sit around waiting for the rapture. Meanwhile, there was nothing else for us to do but tell people to "accept JEEEZUS" and spend the rest of their life sitting around waiting with us.
Stee: I'd love to go a few rounds with your circus dogs concerning JEZZZZUS. Sloppy work, those 3AD Niceans.
Caleb said: You have come up with an Old Testament version of the same doctrine.
Steve said: You are a bit pre-mature on this assumption and it is obvious you do not know my position. You are under the false assuption that my position is one wherein we sit around waiting and doing nothing. There is much to be done while in BONDAGE.. Daniel did no such thing and shouldered both the burden of BONDAGE and his responsibilities. I reference Daniel because he is listed as an archetype of Righteousness in Ezek 14 when and if the final curses come upon Israel. Of course YHWH already knows the outcome but that does not 'compute' to our earthly minds. For the sake of the context of our conversation, it seems you are asserting that my view of scripture is incorrect because it is not in harmony with your position. I defend that I can back up my position using both reality we see out the window and scriptures saying it would be so. Let's get started. For what it is worth, this following statement would be equaly valid in response to your assetion above:
Why not look at my postion as a harmony between the OT and the NT?... a rare happening indeed given the work of the Niceans.
Caleb: A few years back (three to be exact) the Father had to jolt me out of my complacency and start showing me He had a plan and I had a role in it. This did not fit my theology.
Steve: Like it or not we are all playing a role in YHWH's master plan. You are just doing what you are called to do... My position allows for that since YHWH knows the begining from the end of all matters.
Caleb: I knew a very long list of things that had to happen first, like Daniel 12:1, etc. Eventually I would see that I was to play a part in making them happen. You can be too.
Steve: Again, we are all doing what YHWH wants. What I find interesting is that you don't recognise this fact by the statement, 'you could be too'... This statement shows that you believe that one must follow the path you have defined.
Caleb: I am not staying in Babylon, therefore I have nothing to justify. I am on my way out. Your theology appears to demand that this transformation take place in the twinkling of an eye. Mine did too until God showed me otherwise.
Steve: I do wish you the very best in your efforts. But by your own confession you are saying you are not yet out. You confess that you do have plans not to stay in BABYLON, which is fine, but until then you still are in, no? You assert that my theology demands this take place in the twinkling of an eye. Somethings do happen in the twinkling of an eye, but I am not dealing in that currency pertaining to t his issue. I have to deal with the many claims from those who tout this doctrine, "I have been doing this X and X amount of years, I have got 'the Truth'", "My walk is unadultrated", "The Spirit revealed this to me so it is Truth", etc....... Then when I ask the next obvious questions concerning this 'freedom' they respond with an attitude such as, "how dare you question me, you still have a DL".. all the while these "saints" are getting people with "MARKS" to keep them plugged into BABYL.... LOL... It's a joke. I am not even going to go into any more detail on this but.... I ask again, if the Kingdom is here as so many proclaim, why not unplug from BABYL and go get that unused NATIONAL forest land, put up the boarders of your own Kingdom, and start to reap the freedom they proclaim is here? I don't care how far someone thinks they are out of BABYL, if they are still in, they are in.. If Kingdom is here, then it is here. No GOVT will be able to stand in the way. But if it is not yet time.. well you know the rest..... The reality is neither you or I are doing this for whatever reason. You can say your are on your way out so you don't need to justify anything, but really there is some kind of justification else it would be happening, no? I am just curious to know the justification, that's all. Especially with concerning those who, "have an unadultrated walk".. or claim that they are living in YHWH's Kingdom as a Shepard King or what-have-you. BTW, what if the Kingdom spoken of in the NT is 'neither here nor there, but rather inside you"? No one has even wanted to touch this but I'd be glad to add this into the conversation.
Caleb: The second stumbling block appears to be the fruits you see in others who are on the path out of Babylon. Wrecked marriages are not a pretty sight, and I had to have mine destroyed before I could see the Father's purpose in it. Today I am working towards a new marriage to the same woman. But that is a discussion for another day.
Steve: It is my sincere prayer that you get this worked out. YHWH is a family man. Period. Do all you can!
Caleb: I agree that people can be guilty of overestimating just where they are on the path out of Babylon. The brothers here you take issue with claim to be much farther down the track than you give them credit for.
Steve: Again, if the Kingdom is here I want to know what the justification is for not claiming the inheritance. I have seen these DL issues with the court first hand. I am not impressed. I saw a dear brother get treated like a circus dog, jumping through hoops at the command of an impound manager, just to get his van back. Had to go get a ALL CAP copy of the past title and comply with the release requirements. This took great effort and many miles back and forth (driven by a LICENSED DRIVER of course). On top of that, he had to plead guilty and pay $100 even after staying in jail three days! The Spirit spoke to me that day too when it was all done... In the end, one will pay the utmost for a thing! But my 'revelation' does not count. When I look back then and listen to the reports I get now, I know YHWH is showing me things..
Caleb: While ego may creep into the equation, I think their primary desire is to get you on the same path, not judge you for not being where they are.
Steve: LOL. Of course their desire is to get me on the same path. Self proclaimed chiefs need indians. I have given a serious questioning to what backs up the doctrine
and I get either evaded or whimsicle answers which do not deal directly with the scriptures that I show that deals with their claims point blank. I would love to field these valid questions to you if you are up to it. As for not judging me for not being where they are.... you need to get caught up.
Caleb: Watching someone exit Babylon while not doing it yourself is like watching sausage being made. It can turn you off to the finished product forever.
Steve: I avoid pork... and pork is still pork even when the plastic casing is put on the finished product. A fine analogy, thanks.
Caleb: I grew up without a father, and for years I sought that one man who would fill the void that had left in my life. Man after man disappointed me horribly. Finally, well into adulthood I came to accept that no man would ever live up to my expectations. From that day forward God brought men into my life who had something to offer, but also had glaring deficiencies. They would father me in one area while I held my nose regarding some other aspect of their personality. Then, when their role was finished, along would come another who had something completely different to teach me. Not one of these men came close to my ideal for a father, but I remain deeply grateful for the immeasurable blessing they were to me. Once I ceased finding fault, I received the nurture I had been seeking for all those years as a child.
Steve: I salute you.
Caleb: So my admonition is: join us on the path, stop finding fault, and at the very least remove yourself from the multitude who only know how to shoot fiery darts at us as we depart Babylon.
Steve: What escapes you is that I am the minority in this ecclesia with my position. I would be part of the multitudes if I agreed. Instead, I check out the claims made by these sausages, as you put it, and plug it into scripture... some of the answers I have gotten throw chunks of plain scripture out the window, to support the attempt to undo YHWH's punishment. When I point this out I get the cop out and get accused of fiery darts, etc. I may have been born at night.... but not last night! I know pork when I see it.
Caleb: To respond to your other points:
Viewing our present state as merely one of bondage misses the incredible position the Father has put us in. It is like looking at the world in only two dimensions. We are not merely under a system of government based on the revived Roman (civil) law.
Steve: I am glad you see this. I will say that it is not revived but has been all along.
Caleb: Rather, we are under a system of government based on God's Law with an optional choice to affiliate based on Roman law instead.
Steve: Yes. Paul had a dual citizenship and, he claims,. "upheald the Torah" and "excelled above his peers in matters of Torah". This is the guy who wrote Romans 13 under a much more brutal regime than what we have today.
Caleb: But the Roman side is entirely fictional.
Steve: Read Daniel 11:36 through 12:1. This is no fiction, it is what is happening... NOW!!
Caleb: God's Law is the real.
Steve: And YHWH's Law has clauses in the covenant that show what will happen to Israel collectively
when the Torah is breached. We are seeing this unfold as we speak. The escape happens Daniel 12:1 as well as with the
fulfillment of the Messianic prophecies. There is no peace yet and the 4th KINGDOM king is fulfilling Daniel 11:39 - 45.
Caleb: That we have almost everyone living in a dream world shows how pervasive the deception is, just a Paul warned us. But we have the free-will to choose otherwise. (I am a five-point Calvinist, so lets not go down that track)
Steve: Again, I point you to the fulfillment of Daniel 11:36-45 here and now. The deception is to think that it is not real, when in fact, it is very real.
Caleb: The last days will be like the days of Noah and like the days of Lot. One heard Yahweh's voice, planned well ahead of the catastrophe and was protected, along with his family as a result. The other remained oblivious to the times he was in and had to be snatched out of the fire at the last moment. Things didn't turn out nearly so well for him. In Revelation 2 and 3 we have only two ecclesias that are without rebuke (they are also the two that have dealings with the Synagogue of Satan). One is protected while the other is persecuted. See the pattern? You can remain in Babylon until the bitter end, but what will happen to you when the angel cries "mightily with a strong voice saying, 'Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen...'"? Those of us who have built our ark will be protected. Revelation twelve tells the same story.
Steve: Don't forget Daniel's archetype in the last days in Ezek 14. This scripture deals with this problem directly.
Caleb: You talk about things you are looking for as proof that the bondage is over. How about this one: "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness to all nations; and then the end shall come." It is the pivotal sign in Matthew 24. Everything before it is the preview (birth pangs) and everything after it is "the end." The end of what? The world's evil system, not the earth.
Steve: Here you are inserting your opinion on what the Gospel is. If Yahushua says the kingdom is 'neither here nor there, it is inside you' and Paul talks about
shedding the flesh which cannot please YHWH, and the gift of salvation is something that connot be earned, then these items need to be considered. Perhaps this is the Gospel that is to be preached the world over.
Caleb: Who is going to preach the kingdom but those who are already living it - before the end! You make no distinction between "entering" and "inheriting" the kingdom, but you are really defending the same theological position I heard in churches all my life. Everything is pie-in-the-sky. Nothing is here and now.
Steve: Wait a minute. If it is here and now, please share why you (and those who boast about how long they have been doing this) are not rushing out and living the kingdom freedoms. There is always an excuse.. stuff like, "I am planning on leaving BABYL so I don't have to answer this question" .. but you, yourself said, complaining about the pie-in-the-sky and that nothing is here and now. I just want to know why the Kingdom is not here and now with those who claim the it is here and now. A valid and obvious question for such strong assertions.
Caleb: In closing you said, "So far I have only seen RENTERS, FRNS, and day JOBS." As Morpheus announced, "Welcome to the desert of the real!" Even Exodus tells us that the way to the Promised Land is through the desert. Having just spend two years in a desert experience, I can tell you it is not much fun. But it is inevitable once you determine to leave Egypt (or Babylon). With no one having already blazed a trail, we are figuring this out one step at a time. It invariably means the loss of many of those trappings by which the world measures success. But I hear you judging others both for what they lack (land, for example) and also for what they have (electricity, internet). How about picking one and commending them for the other?
Steve: How about picking just one that will go strait to the point: Why not just go take the Kingdom land and leave the others (INTERNET, POWER, using other's MARKS)? If the Kingdom is just as they say it is, what is the reasoning for not doing it? As for blazing a trial, what about the pattern Son who illegedly preached this
Gospel? He might not be a good one on the Kingdom considering that the Yahushua himself does say, "The kingdom of Elohim comes not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here, or Lo there, for behold, the kingdom of Elohim is within you."
Caleb: I do have to admit that many have approached this with too much of a defeatist attitude, but then you have to realize this is Yahweh you are judging.
Steve: This works both ways, no? I have proclaimed again and again that YHWH is in total control and that we are doing his pleasure. It's not judging, it's accepting YHWH's Sovereignty.
Caleb: He has awakened each of us in His perfect timing and showed us what He wanted us doing then. That we cannot yet see the way clear to the fullness of the kingdom is because He is not yet ready to reveal it.
Steve: So then you are saying that the Kingdom is not revealed yet. I agree for the reasons I post again and again.
Caleb: If you do the math, you will find that the seventy years of our present captivity is just now ending. Might this be why freedom has proven so elusive until now?
Steve: I don't see the Freedom, I see people claiming to be Free when they stand in the same food line as everybody else. I see also what you listed above. The Kingdom is not yet revealed. I agree 100% and can show you why in scritpure.
Caleb: And is it coincidence that the insights into how to free ourselves are now coming in like a flood? Cast your lot in with the King and see what He shows you.
Steve: Again, you say my lot is not with the King yet agree with me on the Kingdom not being revealed yet. Why is my lot not cast with the King YHWH? Especially since He is the one who has us 'doing our part' for His good pleasure...
Caleb: "Of the increase of His government and peace there shall be no end" ...
Steve: Yes, when the Moshiach comes and the weapons are turned to plowshares.
Peace be to you Caleb. I do wish you the best.
|
Edited by - BatKol on 08 Mar 2004 13:49:49 |
|
|
|
Robert-James
Advanced Member
uSA
353 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2004 : 18:38:10
|
Parables in the mouth of a fool are just that.
Scripture is replete with "choose the good and refuse the evil". Some folks imply their concept of YHWH is that He has Catholic priests sodomize children. Yahushuah stated Truth when he spoke to some that their father is the devil, a liar from the beginnings. Hosea stated that Israelites set up kings but "Not By Me".
BatKol is a proud Daddy of a few months old son. BatKol would be demonic IF he demanded his son run and play ball at 5 months old, and I am sure he does not think this. A father wants to, and does nuture a growing son, as does the Big Father. Who knows what Yahushuah went through before His appearing? The locals called him a boozer-wine bibber, which in greek imply's over indulgence. Hey, that's Yoseph and Mary's boy, we know him. "He was spouting out crap at age 13 over the idea that the Most High Yahuweh was his Father". We have come full circle, again.
Gilgal = a circle. Time to become circumcised and go a Way we have not been before.
IF we were under another 70 year bondage, well, it is all over tomorrow.
I'm kinda excited! American's will have a great future.
A modern day prophetic man stated three years ago, "you'll be burying your dead with dry eyes". My problem is that I still have a daily supply, yes daily, supply of tears.
Steven, I have one question directed to you: Did the Most High Creator YHWH raise a dead man literally in 30 a.d. on the third day.
Yes, and you are part of the ecclesia.
No, and your one of the dead.
Simple stuff.
The wisdom of this world is foolishness to the Creator of the entire universe!
One's belief in the resurrection of a dead man {hey, this same power, YHWH, breathed into a lump of clay and Adam became alive].
Yahushuah breathed on his disciples. And the next pentacost, they too became Alive. |
|
|
|
BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2004 : 19:38:53
|
Robert-James said: Steven, I have one question directed to you: Did the Most High Creator YHWH raise a dead man literally in 30 a.d. on the third day.
Yes, and you are part of the ecclesia.
No, and your one of the dead.
Simple stuff.
Steve: LOL.. you keep lowering the bar for entry into the club! Before all of this it was the blood, blood, blood.. Now just say he resurrected on the third day and I'm in NOT one of the dead? Such a deal! |
|
|
|
BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2004 : 20:20:25
|
"(5) I am YHWH and there is no other; besides Me there are no gods; I have girded you [i.e. protected you] even though you did not know Me. (6) So that they will know from the rising of the sun to the setting that there is none besides Me; I am YHWH and there is no other. (7) The one who forms light and creates darkness, who makes peace and creates evil, I YHWH do all these things." (Isa 45:5-7).
"Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure,'" (Isaiah 46:10).
"YHWH has made all things for Himself: yes, even the wicked for the day of evil. (Prov. 16:4).
Can it get any clearer than this?
|
|
|
|
Caleb
Advanced Member
Philippines
209 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2004 : 22:14:41
|
Steven,
I have created a new thread rather than continuing this one with you off-topic.
see "People get the Government they deserve"
"Of the increase of His government and peace there shall be no end"
Isaiah 9:7 |
|
|
|
Caleb
Advanced Member
Philippines
209 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2004 : 20:00:17
|
Dear Lewis,
Is there any way to get in touch with the folks from South Carolina, or to get them on this forum to answer a few questions regarding the Apostille for In Itinere Status?
"Of the increase of His government and peace there shall be no end"
Isaiah 9:7 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Are IRS Deficiencies Causing Denied Passports?
