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Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2004 :  19:40:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings Robert-James,
What a shame(sham). As you know they shall be known by the very words of their tongue.
What many fail to realize (not all), is that these are the people which hide under their misleading explanations in order to camouflage their true selves. They look at themselves on a mirror and say, "He sees us not." Even Al Capone "thought" he was doing good, finally died of venerial disease. Hey... was that guy Al circumsized?
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BatKol
Advanced Member

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2004 :  20:29:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Robert-James,
I take it then you are not going to take the Numbers 33:52 challange. How did your lady friend respond to your explaining to her she worships at a "baal temple" and most likely accepted the mark of the beast by having a DL, SS#, etc?
Curious yhy aren't you playing green acres with your beloved son-in-law and daughter? We talk to them on the phone often now-a-days.

Manuel, I wrote you off months ago so I won't even bother with your statements.

Edited by - BatKol on 20 Apr 2004 20:39:31
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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2004 :  22:06:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Excuse me BatKol, my Christain friend knows all about 501 c-3 CHURCHES. Her HUSBAND dosen't. Me thinks, by judging her fruit, she worships the Creator within her own temple. And, yes, she, like all, is on a learnig curve. She just attended a seminar, of Christian sorts, and now has resolved to eat clean. Things are happening, step by step. No matter what your fourth beast does.
I have an e-mail for private matters.
You should know, that the matter of being a LEGAL PERSON, is very hard to discern.
Numbers 33:52 in the matter of PERSONS?
John 3:10-11-12.
You still seem to not understand that being a LEGAL PERSON is sin against YHWH.
Do ye believe in a second birth?
Numbers 33:51 must be accomplished firstly. Notice that certain Levites did not perish in the wilderness. And everyone was TAUGHT that only Caleb and Yahushuah were the survivor's....of the 600,000. Not so. The Levites made it, and led the Way.
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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2004 :  23:45:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As an after thought, re-search... what I have posted. Consider this; that the parable of those obedient Israelites might just have something to do with us today. The chosen priests went before the mass of Israel. The priests got their feet wet-cleaned first. Consider Yahushuah washing the feet. Consider that scripture is meant to be understood only to the obedient. Consider that the priests were 2,000 CUBITS, before the mass. Consider, that two thousand years have passed since the chosen disciple's. Consider Peter's NATURAL response to the cleaning of the Feet. Consider the Master's response. Consider the natural man's ignorance. Consider the former rain {apostile's} with the latter rain. The latter rain is happening Now. Consider that the latter rain, harden's the crop...for the harvest. Consider, if ye have received the latter rain. Consider if, EliYah has spoken to you, in your quiet times. Consider this do ye even know what scripture is? Consider this, are ye living in the fourth beast, and have not ears to hear?
Consider this: are you a PERSON? If confused, please read the very first post, and answer so. The very first.
and then cut down the information given.
I knew a man, who loved to be known as, "non-person", but now he want's desperately to be known as a PERSON. BaTKol, if that were you, what would ye say?
Do PERSON's have more benefits?
Is the U.S. Corp. more appealing than standing as an American-Israelite?
To all reading the tripe written therein, please, re-search the first post.
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BatKol
Advanced Member

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2004 :  09:27:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Robert-James,
I find nowhere in your opinions and specualtions above a refutation of the plain fact that the context of 'persons' in Deut 1:17 (which is the root Mitzvah upon which person rests) is not the LEGAL FICTION found in secular LEGAL DICTIONARIES. This is perfectly backed up by a Greek/Hebrew bible dictionary.

The Talmud is chock full of commentary, opinions and speculations which ask one go outside the plain Biblical context. No thanks, I'll let scripture interprate scripture and stick with Deut 1:17 for the True meaning of 'persons'. No Black's law or Talmud-like commentary needed.

I'll pass on addressing the rest of your comments since you pick and choose which ones of mine you responde to. Maybe we can get this topic back on point concerning the word "person" as it applies to scripture.

P.S. - Check out 1 Tim 5:8

Edited by - BatKol on 21 Apr 2004 09:40:00
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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2004 :  16:54:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dear Bat,
please read the very first post. We are talking about what is a LEGAL PERSON, and what this means to the believer's in Messiah today.
Thanks,.
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BatKol
Advanced Member

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2004 :  19:45:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Robert-James,
If you would have been paying attention to the thread you would have understood that the from the original essay the subject advanced and the biblical use of "person" began being discussed here:

March 5th brother Robert said:
why do you suppose the adversary prefaced their trap for Yahushua this way: "...thou regardest not the person of men" and only then asked if it was lawful to pay tribute to a caesar?

If you would have been paying attention you would have read much interaction on the list between brother Robert and myself concerning this concept which, by the way, is most certainly on point.. Now you want to point a finger at me because you don't like the information brought forth? LOL.



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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2004 :  20:04:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Are you a PERSON?
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BatKol
Advanced Member

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2004 :  21:14:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Deut 1:17 says what's it to ya?
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Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 21 Apr 2004 :  21:28:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


Edited by - Manuel on 21 Apr 2004 21:31:13
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member

uSA
833 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2004 :  06:23:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No, Oz never did give nothin' to the tin man, that he didn't, didn't already have...

fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL.
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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2004 :  19:50:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok, we give. E-ManuEl, you win!!! The heart is red, it must have been recently circumcised. Ah, the oil, at the feet! She shall be spoken of throught eternity!
Deut. 1:17...well bring it unto me, I Will hear it.

One American
still Standing.
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Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2004 :  21:25:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Brother Robert-James,
You are more observant than I. I would not have "figured" your observation without your In-put, In Him.
Grace and Light be for The Almighty Life Giver, Yahushuah! For He Is The Potter which creates all.

Manuel
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BillM
Regular Member

USA
28 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2004 :  21:45:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
to all:

To Peter , Jesus stated the children are then free.( from the Roman Gov. tax)
In the old and new testaments - to be a respecter of person is an abomination to God.
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Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2004 :  22:34:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings Bill,
That is why Yahushuah reminded the people that just because the pharisees and scribes appear clean on the outside, the inside was dirty. The outside was only for show. Their words are only for show as an actor portrays to be some one or some-thing he/she isn't. Remember when Messiah says that they appear as whitewashed tombs on the outside, but the inside is full of deadmens bones? Remember the Word spoken telling us that you cannot put clean garments on top of dirty garments?

His Grace and Light be upon His House,
Manuel
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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2004 :  22:35:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gentle Friends:
Me, Robert-James {aka Bob} quit IRS 1040 forms in 1983. I also quit usury-interest...either taking or receiving, at that same time. The so called pIRateS, have left me alone, with my God, YHWH. I knew not the details at that time. Suffice, ye do the same. This "stuff" is so simple, that only a child "of Faith" can undestand. Some idiots want to discuss-argue, Paul-Daniel, and their charge back when. Boy's, it is all Now. Just whom do ye serve? A PERSON is a U.S. citizen, 14th amendmend fellow. Easu. You have sold your Birthright.
BatKol, assumes, all are like him. so, serve ye the King of Babylon?
BaTKol would rather serve the king of Babylon than the King of Kings. So be it, by your own words, shall ye be judged!
You U.S. citizens: who pay 1040 tithes, ye are paying for the killing of Iraq citizens. And this shall be laid upon your GRAVES. Ye killed the son's of the prophet's! Ye do this, and yet,ye proclaim Liberty? Your liberty shall be your graves!!! Ye shall Not rise, nor shall ye procliam the Day of Liberty.
For I have witheld His Day...for My Son's.
No American is liable to fill out 1040 forms. PERIOD.
I Am an an Ambasador, of America. If any of my friends so be charged by the beast, call me. Clean hands are a prerequeset. 828-649-2610.
Then again: I Am One who believes that that the King Rules, here and Now.
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member

uSA
833 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2004 :  22:40:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings and salutations in the name of the King, brother Bill:

Peace be unto the house.

That is correct, for to give tribute to [the] caesar is to be a respector of "persons", for "caesar" is but the personage of a man. Free in that verse is the Greek word meaning "exempt", the same word used today when you do not owe any taxes.

brother Robert:

fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL.
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Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2004 :  22:41:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Brother Robert-James:
El hombre = The Man
La mujer = The wo-man
Ella, creado en su Imagen nos da vida = The man and the wo-man, created In His Image gives Us Life.
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Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 22 Apr 2004 :  22:45:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It Is Our Money - Not THEIRS

Edited by - Manuel on 22 Apr 2004 22:46:42
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BatKol
Advanced Member

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 23 Apr 2004 :  07:22:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Robert-James,
You just can't seem to keep from getting personal can you? If that is how you like it, fine. BTW, thanks for you opinions. The Talmud is full of such things. Maybe you should check it out.

Rabbi Philip Blackman is the most respected translator and you can order his version here http://www.jewishstore.com/Books/Products.asp?ProdID=0910818002

While you are at it check out "Ethics of the Fathers" also by Rabbi Philip Blackman. To verify that this guy is no 'putz' when it comes to respect, check out his family name by doing a google search
"rabbi blackman" and see his namesake has produced many noted Rabbis.
Don't just view the first page, see them all:

http://www.google.com/search?q=rabbi+blackman+jewish&btnG=Search&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

You also say "Clean hands are a prerequeset". What about feeding your children? Is being a DEAT BEAT DAD part of that "self-proclaimed unadultrated walk" you are so proud of? Your children are one simple phone call away. It's going on a year now and no phone call or financial support from daddy. Who are you trying to fool with your posturing?

Your self-proclaimed righteousness is filthy rags.


Edited by - BatKol on 23 Apr 2004 07:27:36
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