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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2004 :  09:53:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Neighbor Steven,
am not sure I stated I would explain Daniel 11:45 to you or anyone. But for this matter, consider one word, York. Consider the beginnings of Wall Street.

The Kingdom has been here since Moses performed the marriage ceremony on the Third day. Yahuweh being Spirit, married the natural bride. It did not workd out. She {our ancestors} preferred Baal and his house. i.e. another government, and in our modern day, the word PERSONS comes into play.
It is so hard for us all to get the message across, in these little word bites we all type!
The Kingdom is here now, and the fourth beast is the illusion, we create within our minds. We all need to apply eye salve.
I agree we all look foreward to a greater manifestation of this Kingdom. Daniel 11:45 has been going on for sometime now. The "full-fillment". Well, keep your natural eyes on the FED system.
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BatKol
Advanced Member

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2004 :  18:49:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Robert-James said: The Kingdom is here now, and the fourth beast is the illusion, we create within our minds.... then you said: Daniel 11:45 has been going on for sometime now

Steve: Wait a minute. First you tell me the fourth kingdom is an "illusion we create within our mind".. then you tell me 11:45 which speaks of the literal events concerning destruction of the 4th kingdom has "been going on for sometime now"..... Wow. If you can't see your contradiction here then may I suggest something a bit more
potent than that eye salve you speak of..... If you don't see this 4th Kingdom today still "apportioning land at a price" then before you go with the salve, please take off the blinders. I'll spare you the long list of unfulfilled prophecies that define the re-instituted Throne of David that obviously have not happened yet.

I pray you find the peace you so desire.

Steven John Webb
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Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2004 :  21:29:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Horse With No Name
( America )

On the first part of the journey I was looking at all the life
There were plants and birds and rocks and things
There was sand and hills and rings
The first thing I met was a fly with a buzz
And the sky with no clouds
The heat was hot and the ground was dry
But the air was full of sound

I've been through the desert on a horse with no name
It felt good to be out of the rain
In the desert you can remember your name
'Cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la

After two days in the desert sun my skin began to turn red
After three days in the desert fun I was looking at a river bed
And the story it told of a river that flowed
Made me sad to think it was dead

You see I've been through the desert on a horse with no name
It felt good to be out of the rain
In the desert you can remember your name
'Cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la

After nine days I let the horse run free 'cause the desert had turned to sea
There were plants and birds and rocks and things
There was sand and hills and rings
The ocean is a desert with it's life underground
And a perfect disguise above
Under the cities lies a heart made of ground
But the humans will give no love

You see I've been through the desert on a horse with no name
It felt good to be out of the rain
In the desert you can remember your name
'Cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la
La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la

Edited by - Manuel on 29 Mar 2004 21:31:53
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member

uSA
833 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2004 :  07:29:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings and salutations in the name of the King, brothers and sisters:
Peace be unto the house.
________________________________________________________________
When you are asked for a license of any kind, are they not asking you:
By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?
Mattith'yahu [Matthew] 21:23
By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority to do these things? Mark 11:28
Tell us, by what authority doest thou these things? or who is he that gave thee this authority? Luke 20:2

Who gave you the authority, or libertie, or PRIVILEGE, to travel about in this conveyance? or, to marry this woman? or to build this addition onto your home? or to work? ...ad nauseum.
STILL NO ANSWER.
_____________________________________________________________________
Your answer is as evasive as you accuse everyone else of being. We are not 'pulling this out of context', we are simply asking a question: Is this not what they [whoever 'they' are] are asking? A simple yes or no will suffice.
You are trying to pass off a clearly historic context as a parable in an attempt to say that "i don't understand". I fully understand your doctrines.
We were not trying to 'pass this off as a parable'...it is as plain as the nose on your face [and no, we are not picking on your nose]; Paul and the Scripture are hard to understand. And we are not "attempting to say that 'YOU don't understand'...we are saying that they are difficult for ALL OF US to understand.
We have but to ask ourselves, why did the so-called governments of men try so hard to keep this Book out of the vulgar peoples' hands until they could sanitize it? It was worth it to murder men for attempting to translate it!! Because we would go to HEAVEN when we die...this is why they were murdering men who were trying to put it into a language people could read? No! We say it is because they were afraid of losing their POWER over men!!


fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL.

Edited by - Oneisraelite on 30 Mar 2004 19:00:44
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member

uSA
833 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2004 :  07:47:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh, and one more note for the edification of the Body Politic [Body of Anointed]:
What is the ekklesia [ek-klay-see'-ah]?
The word 'church' in the New Testament is translated from the Greek word 'ekklesia' which comes from two words 'ek' meaning 'out' and 'kaleo' meaning to 'call.'
An ekklesia or 'calling out' was not just an assembly. The words agora and paneguris as well as heorte, koinon, thiasos, sunagoge and sunago can all mean an assembly.
The word ekklesia was a political term, not a religious term. Yahushua is the King and the Scripture used the term ekklesia for a good reason. In classical Greek "ekklesia" meant "an assembly of citizens summoned by the crier, the legislative assembly." - R. Scott, and H. G. Liddell, A Greek-English Lexicon (Grand Rapids: Baker), p.206.
Webster' New World Dictionary of American English - 3rd College Edition, copyright 1988, page 428
ecclesia 1 in ancient Greek states, a political assembly of citizens.


fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL.
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BatKol
Advanced Member

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2004 :  07:57:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
brother Robert,
Was gone all day... Sorry I missed your one question out of the long laundry list that I answered for you on my last post. I will gladly answer this for you as now I will demand your answers to my list of questions I will prepair. Anybody watching this thread will see that I have not been evasive. I took the care to answer what I thought was your complete list of questions but, lo and behold, I have missed one. No problem. I'll gladly answer it for your edification.

You said: Greetings and salutations in the name of the King, brothers and sisters:
Peace be unto the house.
________________________________________________________________
When you are asked for a license of any kind, are they not asking you:
By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?

Steve: Once again you are taking a question posed to Yahushua for his actions of over-turning the money changer's tables and preaching to the congregation and trying to tie into something altogether different. Can you say non-sequitur? What would be more fitting in this context would be if you went into the baptist or catholic temple began pulling down the graven images of Jesus on the Cross and then preaching to the congregation. When the priest or pastor asks you, "By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?". That would be more contextually related to the story then me driving down the road and getting asked for a DL. When looking at a passage from scripture don't you think you must take in to consideration who is doing the asking, and what event caused them to pose the question, before you take that question and try to relate it to a point you are making about the here and now? You are taking this question posed to Yahushua by the Temple Chiefs for actions such as him turning over the tables in the court of the gentiles, and preaching to the congregation.

brother Robert again posts:

Mattith'yahu [Matthew] 21:23
By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority to do these things? Mark 11:28
Tell us, by what authority doest thou these things? or who is he that gave thee this authority? Luke 20:2

Steve: These verses have nothing to do with the question you pose and are out of context. They are asked by religious leaders about actions done within their temple, not about AGENTS questioning a DL.

brother Robert: Who gave you the authority, or libertie, or PRIVILEGE, to travel about in this conveyance?or, to marry this woman? or to build this addition onto your home? or to work?


Steve: In all instances it is ultimately YHWH. If I am using a DL issued by a 4th KINGDOM AGENCY then we know the reason the 4th KINGDOM AGENCY is given the power to issue DL's is because:

1) the 4th KINGDOM is still here and Daniel 11:45 and 12:1 have not come to pass.

2) Here is one verse from the many I have found which says basically the same thing:

Daniel 2:21, "It is Elohim who changes the times and the epochs; He removes kings and establishes kings; He gives wisdom to wise men And knowledge to men of understanding. There are many verse which say the same thing.

brother Robert: STILL NO ANSWER.

Steve: Give me a break. I gave you two pages of detailed answers to your questions and even addressed you pulling those very Bible quotes out of context.


brother Robert: Your answer is as evasive as you accuse everyone else of being. We are not 'pulling this out of context',

Steve: You are mixing apples and oranges. Seriously. Yahushua going and over turning the money changer's tables in the court of the gentiles, and then preaching to the congregation and then question and debating the Chief Priests in the temple is not the same thing as
DL issues. Notice how ROME did not really care he was doing these things and even saw through the religious leaders' atempt to accuse Yahushua of preaching against ROME when they brought him to Pilate???
ROME had no cause against him because he was not speaking against ROME. That was what the Jews said he was doing .... which was a lie!

brother Robert: we are simply asking a question: Is this not what they [whoever 'they' are] are asking? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Steve: NO! They were asking by what authority do you do these 'things'. I have addressed this in detail above with the example of you going into a catholic or baptist temple and doing a
'brother Robert gone wild'.


brother Robert: Steve: You are trying to pass off a clearly historic context as a parable in an attempt to say that "i don't understand". I fully understand your doctrines . brother Robert: We were not trying to 'pass this off as a parable'...it is as plain as the nose on your face [and no, we are not picking on your nose]; Paul and the Scripture are hard to understand.

Steve: Hello? We were talking about the false prophets and teachers in Peter's letters, not Paul's!!!! When you use a verse about Yahushua saying he spoke in parables and try to relate it to our conversation about the false prophets and teachers in 2 Peter are you not trying to relate the context of that verse to the context of our discussion?? Peter's letters are very strait forward. Paul can get confusing if you don't know who he is talking to. Mostly about Torah and who it applies to. Concerning our conversation, sure some of these issues will over lap, but in relation to trying to connect the
false prophets and teachers that were preaching to Peter's flock, to the merchants selling luxury items that nobody wants any more.. the scriptures about Paul's letters being hard to understand and Yahushua' use of parables are out of context in relation to the literal false prophets and teacher in 2 Peter and the whining merchants of Revelations.

brother Robert: And we are not "attempting to say that 'YOU don't understand'...we are saying that they are difficult for ALL OF US to understand.

Steve: It is difficult to understand when you are trying to take one
line in 2 Peter speaking about how the false prophets and teachers
were preaching a heretical doctrine to the flock and try to say that they (false prophets and teachers) were turing the flock into PERSONS as it pertains to a legal dictionary. To further make your point you find a connection to the whining merchants of Revelations because you see the word 'merchandise' listed as well as the word 'slave' amongst the list of luxury items nobody wants to buy any more... Yes, I agree that is very hard to understand if one wants to take into consideration proper context, intent and subject matter. What I find most fitting is that the Hebraic Roots NT translated from the Aramaic Peshetta does not even have the word 'merchandise' in the verse we are speaking about in 2 Peter!!! Again, it is clearly a figure of speech in the KJV when 'merchandise' is used.

brother Robert: We have but to ask ourselves, why did the so-called governments of men try so hard to keep this Book out of the vulgar peoples' hands until they could sanitize it?

Steve: I invite you to check out the Hebraic Roots NT which, in my opinion, a far better version that the KJV. After all the apostles were Hebrews and this version is taken from the oldest Aramaic version of the NT.

brother Robert: It was worth it to murder men for attempting to translate it!! Because we would go to HEAVEN when we die...this is why they were murdering men who were trying to put it into a language people could read? No! We say it is because they were afraid of losing their POWER over men!!

Steve: "They" probably did not want to see Daniel 11:45 and 12:1 come to pass. "They" have a limited power and shelf life which 'they' don't want to let go of.. well it's too bad. Shall YHWH say a something which will not come to pass?

I'll be getting my list of questions that I would like you to answer
ready and I'll be very excited to get equally detaled responses from you concerning them!

Peace to you all on a nice, crisp morning .

Steve

Edited by - BatKol on 31 Mar 2004 08:08:24
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BatKol
Advanced Member

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 31 Mar 2004 :  08:16:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings brother Robert,
Church, ecclesia, flock. This changes not one bit of my position concerning 2 Peter and the false teachers and prophets.

Steve

(I'll be posting my questions for you to answer later today.. I am quite excited as I will finally be able to the bottom of some of these pressing questions that nobody wants to get too deep into!)
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BatKol
Advanced Member

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2004 :  06:24:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings brother Robert and all who view this thread,

Peace to all!

Here are the main questions that I would like to get a more detailed response to.

1. Paul, the Roman Citizen

If we are to believe what the Bible says about Paul being a "Pharisee the son of a Pharisee" (Acts 23:6) then we should expect him to know much about the Torah. We know that Paul was a Roman Citizen and definately exercized this status. Acts 23:23-31 has the Roman garrison send more than half its troops (470 soldiers to escort one man) from Jerusalem to Antipatris. Reading about Paul's Roman Citizenship leaves a couple of nagging questions which need to be addressed if we are to seriously consider that being a CITIZEN is serving two masters.

Taking Paul's claim to be 'one who up holds the Torah and excelled in matters concerning the Law' as well as being a "Pharisee the son of a Pharisee" we need to address the obvious:

A. If being a CITIZEN is serving two masters as well as a breach of the first commandment, why did not Paul, one who upholds and excells in matters of the Law, know this error?

B. How could Paul claim to be both a Citizen of Heaven as well as a ROMAN CITIZEN and not be breaching the Law he was such an expert of?

C. If Paul was choosen for a special purpose as he puts it to "preach Christ to the Nations" don't you find it odd that Christ himself would not have told Paul about his glaring misunderstanding concerning CITIZENSHIP?

2. Samuel, the righteous and respected Judge of Israel

By now we are both very familiar with 1 Sam 8 wherein the Israelites agree to a King "like the nations". Samuel gives them a detailed
list of burdens the KING will heap on them. Never the less, the Israelites agree and once YHWH ruins their crops in anger they realize their error. After they see this they cry to Samuel for advice on how to get out of this mess. This brings us to 1 Samuel 12:19

19. All the people then said to Shmuel, "Pray on behalf of your servants to YHWH, your Elohim, that we not die; for have added evil upon all of our sins, to request a king for ourselves."
20. Shmuel said to the people FEAR NOT. You have done all this evil - BUT do not turn away from following YHWH, rather serve YHWH with all your heart. 21 Do not turn away for pursuing futilities that cannot avail and cannot rescue, for they are futile. 22 For YHWH shall not forsake His people for the sake of His great Name; for YHWH has sworn to make you for a people unto Him. 23 And I, also- far be it from me to sin against YHWH and refrain from praying on your behalf; rather I shall instruct you in the good and proper path. 24. Only fear YHWH and serve Him faithfully, with all your hearts, for look at how much he has done for you. 25 But if you act wickedly, both you and your king will perish..

Now a few obvious questions come to mind when reading the passages above.

a) If being subject to a 1 Sam 8 style KING 'like the nations' is serving two masters why is Samuel telling them NOT to turn away from YHWH, rather serve YHWH with all your heart, and only to fear YHWH and serve him faithfully.... while at the same time serving their new 1 Sam 8 style KING?

b) If serving two masters is as you say it is, then how could Samuel, who is a respected Judge of the Law and one who 'shall instruct the Israelites on the good and proper path', tell them to continue to serve YHWH as well as the 1 Sam 8 style king 'like the nations'? If you are correct then his seems to me a huge contradiction and a serious flaw by Samuel (who BTW has a direct, personal connection to YHWH which is evidenced by his calling YHWH to come and destroy the crops).

3. Escape from BONDAGE and the destruction of the 4th Kingdom

a) When did Daniel 11:45 come to pass as it defines the end of the 4th ROMAN Kingdom? I still see the 4th Kingdom operating.

b) When did Daniel 12:1 come to pass as it says "at that time your people will escape"?


In closing we have two Israelites who had direct connections to both YHWH and Yahushua in Paul and Samuel. If serving two masters and the first commandment is as you say it is, then both of these important Bible men are in serious error. Also we have above BONDAGE verses which are just two of a collection that I have put together which speak of the escape from BONDAGE.

These questions have been nagging me for a very long time when I sit and give deep thought to the claims made on this list concerning "serving two masters' and CITIZENSHIP.

Peace to all,
Steve

Edited by - BatKol on 01 Apr 2004 20:24:19
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Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2004 :  09:08:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings In His name, Yahushuah, The Life Giver:

There are those whom worship many... yes even some call many. There is St. Paul, St. Peter, St. John, St. Lazaro, St. Barbara, etc., not to mention the many from the old testament. But are we to "cling" to them solely? NO... they are only followers. There Is One, which Is spotless whom there is no mediator between, and He Is The Messiah, Father and Holy Spirit... The One.

Any that insist on focusing on one of the many, leaving out the One, will find themselves endlessly using what one man called "aristotalean false arguments," "ad hominem attacks," and is simply doing what The Messiah refused to stay out of when He said to the wo-man after her complain: "I am not here to settle your disputes."

For In His Truth, there are many insignificant quarrels.

His Grace and Light be upon you and your love ones,
I am, In Him, Father Willing,
Manuel
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BatKol
Advanced Member

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2004 :  10:03:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Manuel,
Sorry if you think these questions are insignificant. I assure you they are not. They are hugely important. However, many who watch this list want to know the answers and I have been racking my brain on them for a while. To give serious thought to many of the claims made by some on this forum, these questions must be dealt with not avoided.
And not some fantasy answers. Good, solid refutation that makes sense.

BTW, Yahushua is key in the question at the top of the list. The "Transfigured" Yahushua came to Paul personally. Samuel had a direct line to YHWH so we are not talking about some run of the mill
people. These are very important figures in the book who knew the Law and had personal experiences with YHWH or Yahushua. Why they did not know your version of the first commandment and 'serving two masters' are very important questions.

I invite you to answer them.

Steve




Edited by - BatKol on 01 Apr 2004 13:14:23
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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2004 :  21:42:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The moment Daniel knew they were challenging his loyality to the Most High, he, immediately disobeyed they false STATUES. Would we, or our father's, have done the same, we would not have been in this bondage. We didn't, and will pay dearly. I had a Grand-Dad, who was given a check in 1935, for NOT growing peanuts. He was a Mason, of high degree. He never would cash the check, even though being a peanut farmer in Oklahoma, during the depression, with eleven mouths to feed, he would not bow the knee.
YHWH always had His seven thousand who will not bow the knee to baal. And before all is over, We, and those before us who blazed the trail, {Way-hodos} shall inherit all. And I Am so proud to have been the One who told you so.
Let the redeemed of YaH say so..............So.
Even David, through ha-satan, via YHWH, could not number the sons of Benyamin. {well, levites also}. Even King David, got on his knee's, and bowed forgiveness to YHWH for numbering Israel, the Nation.
Shows me , We need a better king than David, and We have One. Can you find Him?
I find it so queer that so many of my brethern, could care less being known as a numbered PERSON. Well boy's...let me assure you, you are not of the Tribe of Judah/Benyamin. PERIOD, no, comma. And Yah will raise the Tribe of Judah/Benyamin firstly...Rev.12:5.
I would ask again...would any new comer's, please read the beginnings of, "are you a PERSON'S.
BaTKoL and other's, would you, please, re-read the first thread about PERSON'S? Any other's, please question thy self, if you are a PERSON, being a status...on earth. if one answer's to an ALL CAPITALIZED name, one IS a PERSON. And subject to Civil law, i.e. you are a Catholic, in good kneeling. [not Standing}. Pay your tithe via the IRS. Your firstfruits to to the King.
Bat..., answer if you care...do you pay tithe to your {K}king?
How many live in the grey matter, i.e. their brain? All is either Black or White.
We here, teach the stance, if you are who you say you are...you don't need LICENSES, IRS forms, give the children to GOVT. school's, and many other issues which effect us, and our loved One's daily.
This non-sensencical SCRIPTURAL, scholastic, sophmoric, pendantic, follishness must come to an end.
Daniel...go thy way, for thou shall stand in thy lot at the end of days.
Wanna be a Daniel? Pray at 9:00, 12:00, 3:00, every day of everyday, and pray for the sins of Israel and Judah. Fast through passover. Never, never, bow the knee to man's government. whatever the cost. Want the mantle of a Daniel? One shall never pray {apply} for a license. and I am surely looking for D-N-EL. So far, only the most fewest of the host, will Stand in the gap. In fact, I have met, One...oneisraelite.
Gog and Magog reside within the "City of London". They created MR ALL CAP. Search the internet, and you will find, it was stated here first. Then again, if ye ain't Yudah/Benyamin. well ok, psalm 80 included, you have not a clue what I am saying through these black and white marks.
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BatKol
Advanced Member

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2004 :  06:38:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Robert-James, true to form, you have not touched one question put forth by me on the above post. Why will you not take a shot at the questions. I am excited to see brother Robert's response to them seeing as I complied with his request to answer EVERY one of his question he demanded answers to.
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BatKol
Advanced Member

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  06:55:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Robert-James said: The moment Daniel knew they were challenging his loyality to the Most High, he, immediately disobeyed they false STATUES.

Steve: I agree. Now take that line of thinking a bit deeper. Ask youself why Daniel had no problem with accepting the JURISTIC PERSONALITY of BELTESHAZZAR. As you rightly point out, once Daniel knew "THEY" were challenging his loyality to the Most High, he refused to follow that STATUTE. Here is a guy, Daniel, who would not even break the Kashrut Torah (food laws)yet he would accept, without protest, a NAME given to him by "BABYL"... As you like to say...

THINK AND READ AT THE SAME TIME!!!
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Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2004 :  19:37:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"Oh Romeo... Romeo... Where art thy Romeo... - Deny thy name and deny thy father"

Edited by - Manuel on 03 Apr 2004 19:42:09
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BatKol
Advanced Member

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2004 :  20:53:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You guys are not the first to be stumped by questions such as the ones you are being challanged with....."And they could not answer him again to these things."

Edited by - BatKol on 04 Apr 2004 20:56:04
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Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2004 :  21:55:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"From a fallen tree, all make kindling."

Edited by - Manuel on 04 Apr 2004 21:56:55
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BatKol
Advanced Member

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2004 :  12:23:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"And his brethren could not answer him; for they were troubled at his presence."
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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 19 Apr 2004 :  22:14:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would council you to see with your own eyes why Daniel settled down in Babylon. Daniel, a servant of the Most High, had great respect for Yeremiah's words. Yeremiah pronounced a 70 year captivity on Judah/BenYamin, for their sins. This is the only reason he did what he did. Yet, he retained his witness to and of, the Most High YHWH. This has absolutely no revelance to today. Daniel met with Pythagorus, and they brought forth the great "number's game", that has left most all baffled for 2500 years now. Daniel had a course to finish for his Master.
Now, if you too, are locked down for the next 70 years, teach your son's well, for father's hell, will slowly go by. {CSNY}
Sorry I did now answer sooner, but this is child's play. Daniel was then, this is Now. I have seen lately, talking with seekers, that they, to the one, mention Daniel, Paul in Rome, and Yoseph in Egypt...as the reason to stay in Babylon. How about looking to the Messiah Yahushuah? For He is the Way-Truth-Life, and the Firstborn among many. Not Paul-Daniel-Yoseph.
Just curious.
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BatKol
Advanced Member

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2004 :  07:04:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Robert-James said: I would council you to see with your own eyes why Daniel settled down in Babylon. Daniel, a servant of the Most High, had great respect for Yeremiah's words. Yeremiah pronounced a 70 year captivity on Judah/BenYamin, for their sins. This is the only reason he did what he did. Yet, he retained his witness to and of, the Most High YHWH. This has absolutely no revelance to today.

Steve: I would council you to understand that the 70 yr. BONDAGE of
Babylon was part of the third kingdom bondage. You are ignoring the 4th Kingdom phase of BONDAGE. The 4th ROMAN Kingdom has not been destroyed per Daniel 11:35. Daniel 12:1 has not been completed, "at that time the people will escape". The 4th Kingdom has not been destroyed. I understand you will assert that the everlasting kingdom will be set up during the 4th Kingdom. That's fine. But the escape of the people comes AFTER the destruction of the 4th Kingdom in Daniel 11:35. Plain and simple: this has not happened yet. Also you are incorrect concerning Daniel's behavior as it relates to today.
As for Daniel's relevance to today I refer you to Ezekiel 14 which gives testimony to his importance when the hell of all hells breaks out upon the land.

Robert-James said: Daniel was then, this is Now.

Steve: The 4th Kingdom is Now. When you go spend your MILITARY SCRIP
at the CORP you are paying THEM TAX. When you are looking over your shoulder for COPS as you "move about in your conveyence" it's the 4th KINGDOM AGENTS you are watching out for.

Robert-James said: How about looking to the Messiah Yahushuah?

Steve: I council you to digest the literalism of this scripture concerning Moshiach that has not yet happened:

And he (Moshiach) shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. (Isaiah 2:4)

Perhaps the "great delusion" is pretending that this has already happened...when it has not... this is child's play.

Robert-James you have consistantly failed to show where this scripture(and many, many others) has been fulfilled.

If you think you are Now in the promised land then I challange you to test this requirement in Torah and see if you have authority over
the 4th Kingdom:

Numbers 33:52: then ye have dispossessed all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and have destroyed all their imagery, yea, all their molten images ye destroy, and all their high places ye lay waste,

All of those "Baal Churches" down the road that you have gone on and on about for so long are waiting. Please report back to the group and let us know how this commandment for the promised land went. After all you are an American and this is your promised land.... right?




Edited by - BatKol on 20 Apr 2004 08:01:32
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Robert-James
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uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2004 :  17:09:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings,
my response was regarding Daniel and the seventy year captivity, and scripture answered that clearly.
Hey, maybe we all should council each other, to search out the scriptures.
A lady friend of mine, who goes to a 501 c-3 Church, just gave a 160 acre farm, house, tractor, barn to my son-in-law and my daughter. Gave...go play green acres!!!
Many people right now, will not use carnal weapons to hurt one another.

A proper nation is not a place, but an idea, coumpounded of an analgam past, present, and future. The idea is alive and well. Always was and always will be.
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