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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Aug 2004 : 22:10:06
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Robert-james said: To blame YHWH-God for everything is not a masculine concept of the Truth.
Steve: "Blame"? That you would even think that says alot about you. You still don't get it... and if you think you are fit to comment on what might be masculine or not, you need to ask yourself: What kind of man does not feed his own children? If I could ever get you past 'the post and run stage' I would dismantle the anglo-israel doctrine in public right here for you. Got the testes to go the distance? YHWH willing I'll be here tomorrow if you accept. It would be a pleasure.
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Robert-James said: "Yes, we make practical use of the legal fictious government. Why not? They are pretend, and dead as a door nail."
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berkano
Advanced Member
uSA
129 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2004 : 13:56:52
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quote:
Originally posted by BatKol
Robert-james said: To blame YHWH-God for everything is not a masculine concept of the Truth.
Steve . . . If I could ever get you past 'the post and run stage' I would dismantle the anglo-israel doctrine in public right here for you . . .
What is the anglo-israel doctrine? Care to start a thread about it so I can see what this is about?
-- Berkano |
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David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2004 : 18:58:54
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Dear Berkano;
I suppose the term comes from "British-Israel" and is historically stating the Ten Northern Tribes disbursed into the British Isles. Something like that. Therefore the heritage claimed by the Jews is thought under this doctrine to belong to the whitebread Anglo-Saxon peoples.
Several parallel doctrines occur but the common denominator is typically making a Biblical claim to the original estate - often a Christian based "Spiritual Israel". Robert-James has expressed he believes in a racially based heritage and therefore has been aligned with British-Israel doctrine.
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/britisrael.html
quote:
British-Israelism is not the name of an organization, but the name of an historical movement that has organizational manifestation in the U.S. and Europe today. The key idea of British-Israelism, also referred to as Anglo-Israelism, is that Great Britain is the geographical home of the lost tribes of Israel. The immediate implication of this belief is that it identifies the present day Anglo-Saxon people as God's Chosen People.
Regards,
David Merrill. |
Edited by - David Merrill on 28 Aug 2004 19:51:16 |
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2004 : 10:11:53
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Greetings Berkano,
If Robert-James comes out from under his desk to back up his assertions, I promise an indepth look at the Anglo-Israel doctrine. From a distance it looks great but once you get a close look I will show that A) it is built on nothing more than some false understandings based on radically out of context scriptures and B) that archeological and DNA evidence works against this very claim.
I don't expect Robert-James to accept my challenge however. That is not his style. He likes to lob fantasy based speculations which have nothing backing them up. Then when he is called to the floor and challenged man to man, he is nowhere to be found.
What do you say Robert-James, are you masculine enough to come to the floor and accept my challenge? Let's pick five agreed upon points with up to five rebuttals on each side per point.
Have you the stones or will you just continue to 'post and run'?
I Am,
Steven John Webb
quote:
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Robert-James said: "Yes, we make practical use of the legal fictious government. Why not? They are pretend, and dead as a door nail."
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Edited by - BatKol on 29 Aug 2004 10:13:41 |
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David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2004 : 11:11:20
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Dear Steven John (of the Webb family);
I did not read any of Robert-James stuff. The reason I chimed in with my two cents was the proposal that we start a Topic to define British/Anglo Israel when there are many theologean definitions properly formed.
So Robert-James, if you wish to define your premises and hypotheses; philosophies and revelations, I feel it might warrant a new Topic for forum. I strongly suggest you begin conforming to standards. Your premise that we are all screwed up because of a foundational Jewish plot leads to gibberish. If you insist so however, you best find a foundation of common symbols so that we are not repelled by your false charms.
Also, learn to read what you have written and edit. Complete your thoughts. Your riddle-like half-conclusions are just plain annoying.
Regards,
David Merrill.
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2004 : 12:12:21
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David and subscribers,
Thanks for your interest and comments. I fully intended to start a seperate thread for this topic. We can start it without Robert-James' acceptence of my challenge. But before we do, I want to give him a chance to stand and deliver. I want the list to witness if Robert-James is capable of a strait answer in my calling him to the floor to back up his assumptions.
Yes or No to my challenge.
I've got a bit of work to do for the next couple of days so I'll let this rest until Robert-James gets up the guts to make a clear, strait forward response to my challenge.
Steven John (of the Webb family)
quote:
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Robert-James said: "Yes, we make practical use of the legal fictious government. Why not? They are pretend, and dead as a door nail."
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Edited by - BatKol on 29 Aug 2004 12:15:37 |
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Robert-James
Advanced Member
uSA
353 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2004 : 09:14:09
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Greetings folk's,
I don't come here much anymore. We are to try the spirit's of men. I have and now know.
Letter of James...to the twelve tribe's of Israel.
Not British Israel.
Destroy a man's heritage {root's} and he flounder's in the SEA of forgetfulness.
But the son's of David, appear as a root out of dry ground.
Sorry fellow's, but I won't join with you.
And Steven, you could alway's call, or come by, if you cared too.
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2004 : 10:26:54
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Robert-James has given his answer to my challenge:
NO!
Why would I want to have this conversation just between you and me? Here you can't interupt me or stomp off when you get your panties in a bunch over my points. Plus we both get our say for thousands or more to read. You don't like that format and anything less is a waste of my time.
You make a lot of claims that you are not capable of backing up. That speaks volumes. I guess your not as 'Scottish' as you like to brag because I don't know a Scot worth his salt who would'nt be willing to back up his claims and prove how 'sharp his sword was'.
When and if you ever get your courage up, look me up here.
I'd love to go toe to toe with you on a number of issues.
Until then,
BatKol
quote:
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Robert-James said: "Yes, we make practical use of the legal fictious government. Why not? They are pretend, and dead as a door nail."
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Edited by - BatKol on 30 Aug 2004 14:30:34 |
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berkano
Advanced Member
uSA
129 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2004 : 20:56:13
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quote:
Originally posted by BatKol
Robert-James has given his answer to my challenge:
NO!
. . . Here you can't interupt me or stomp off when you get your panties in a bunch over my points . . . I guess your not as 'Scottish' as you like to brag
nay, sons o' scotti n'er be weerin' these panties ye speak o'. We weer kilts t' battle, sonni boy! |
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2004 : 22:20:04
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Ha! You're right Berkano. Maybe Robert-James should trade those panties for a kilt and make a stand for Anglo-Israelism. He sure likes to dish it out. Don't count him out yet. Once I get the "debunking Anglo-Israelism" thread going I'll bet he won't be able to resist poking his nose in for a few 'post and runs'.
Have you seen this bit from the Devil's Dictionary?
KILT, n. A costume sometimes worn by Scotchmen in America and Americans in Scotland.
Peace to you,
Stevo
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Manuel
Advanced Member
USA
762 Posts |
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David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2004 : 07:47:59
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Dear Steven John;
It is good to offer a hearing just the same. That is only fair.
But we knew there is no coherent defense of false doctrine. The Jews keep prayer books of which the Premier is the "Shema" - the basic tenet of monotheism. So would it make sense that there be different gods for different races of men? - Or on that same note, that the God of Israel be playing favorites to certain races of men?
Regards,
David Merrill.
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Edited by - David Merrill on 31 Aug 2004 07:49:27 |
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2004 : 08:05:41
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Dear David,
Yes. We should hear the matter just the same and YHWH willing I'll have a nice opener for 'debunking Anglo-Israelism' by the weekend. You bring up some excellent common sense points on Monotheism. The Tanakh and the NT define these other 'gods' as non-existent.
Manuel, what took you so long? I was expecting you sooner (not in the sense of actually engaging the conversation, heavens no!).
Best,
Steve
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David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2004 : 14:01:11
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I think there is a misperception of the "Chosen" people being God's "Favorite" people. A reading of the plain text tells us that God about wiped out the Israelites and was ready to begin with Moses as the progenitor. Moses is revered among the Jews for saving the Israelites; persuading God to change His mind on that.
So a strict set of laws were levied upon the Israelites in return for thier survival. So Chosen is by no means Favorite.
Regards,
David Merrill.
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2004 : 16:38:39
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David,
I agree with your comments. What strikes me as interesting concerning the 'racial purity' aspect of the AI theory is that the bible itself depicts the Israelites as a people who have had various mixtures along the way.
One example: Judges 3:5-6: The Israelites lived among the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizites, Hivites and Jebusites. They took their daughters in marriage and gave their own daughters to their sons, and served other gods.
Race is not the issue since there are stipulations in the Torah for non-Israelites to join. This is why it is said that the Israelites are a people not a race. The main problem the Israelites had according to the Bible seems that they dropped their culture and 'religion' once they married non-Israelites.
I am currently working on my "debunking AI" thread and I hope to cover this point some more.
Best,
Steve |
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Robert-James
Advanced Member
uSA
353 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2004 : 19:06:56
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Greetings Ecclesia,
ahh, I must be bored!
Steven, please post that fine song you wrote and sang, titled, "I don't wanna be the devil's Bi-ch".
Something about not wanting to be MR ALL CAP MAN?
I really don't want to offend you, I don't, but you seem to have the mentality of a little tough boy on the school yard.
Yahushuah opened up the Kingdom to "whomsoever will", but he never negated his Father's desire to gather The Children of Israel into one Unity.[the story of lunk head Peter and the vision from heaven was about this]
Remember Yahushuah did state for the record, "Why calleth me Good, for there is none Good but Yahuweh". {He said this to a rich young man who thought he kept the Law}
If...the Blood sacrifice of Yahushuah messiah is repungnant to you and David, well, I can't, and won't bid you Good speed. [now what does Good mean?}
I could post many quote's from learned RABBI'S, modern, who will emphatically state, and have, that modern Jew's are neither Hebrew's, nor Israelites, by blood. So your arguement should be to convince them that they are wrong.
Plus, you both are cherry picker's, you only answer what fit's your opinion's.
i.e. why did James address his letter to the twelve tribe's of Israel scattered abroad??? Why does history record that Yoseph of Arimathea, the only member of the Sanhedrin of 70, who voted against the murder of Yahushuah
end up in 37 a.d. building a hutch for the purpose of teaching the new revelation...in London?
Why does YHWH swear that He will alway's have a son of David sitting on the earthly Throne that He gave to David? Because He keep's His Word.
Why does the Jewish encyclopedia state that modern Jew's are Edomites?
Answer these questions, one by one, and I'll play.
Otherwise kiss my Scottish arse.
Your insult's against me are overlooked. Go ask Berkano if I support My Family. Ask Kevin Reynolds. Ask Brother Robert.
Oh, that's right, you don't understand the second birth, out of the CORPORATION.
And that's ok, pal. Each man in his own Order.
Really want to play? Critize me for not walking perfectly {as per your EYE SIGHT] in Tennessee? Your like a cat call from the grandstand. Wanna play? Wanna say, "Father put me in"? Na, you are hoping that someone will make an image of you as THE CRITIC.
Wanna ask David Merrill if he is MR ALL CAP?
Again, please print out those lyric's from that song, then you can continue?
Wisdom from above is first peaceful.
Steven I mean no insult's to you. I thought I knew you, and now I stand in doubt. You are the one who can provide the answer as to just who you are, not me.
Are you 'in the Son'? And can the Most High El Elyon have Children without your permission? The Most High want's children, and He is not threatened in His Greatness in this. Go ask Wisdom.{Proverb's 8} {Proverb's 9:1 also]For YHWH called His son...out of Egypt. Want to see how many times YHWH talk's about His Family and Son in scripture?
It is a given fact that Israel, heritage wise, is basically the caucasian race. Go figure where and why the white race picked up the name caucasian. Since you are a U.S. citizen, [Steven} the next time you fill out your GOVT's, form where they ask you to check the race box, ya even know why you check the box...Caucasian?
Word's mean something. Dariel pass, ever heard of it?
But I am most likely wasting space, in that you won't answer anything that dosen't fit your opinion.
Proverb's 9:9 Give {instructions} to a wise man and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man and he will increase in learning. {verse 12}.
Go tune in Handel's messiah, and relax.
BTW, compare your song, which you won't post, with Handel's.
Come on, post the song, and state why, it is of no effect...anymore for you.
Dear Ecclesia,
James not only addressed his letter to the 12 tribe's of Israel, and stated: above thing's brethern...swear NO oath's, he added:
5:20, Let him [us} know, that he that "converteth a SINNER from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sin's".
James seem's to have been the blood brother of Yahushuah {Jesus}
Prayer change's things'.
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2004 : 22:15:08
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LOL! The same Robert-James who just said: "I will not join in with you fellows". A bit of double-mindedness? No problem...I knew you would bite. I love it.
Robert-James I have done nothing but answer you point by point for months on end here so save your little show for those who don't know you. It is you who only answers what fits your mood. But if you are willing to go point to point with me, like you just said you would, I'll do the same starting right now with this post.
Robert-James: Steven, please post that fine song you wrote and sang, titled, "I don't wanna be the devil's Bi-ch". Something about not wanting to be MR ALL CAP MAN?
Steve: Fine song? You said you never liked it!!! Actually that song was inspired by brother Robert and his stories as well as items that were floating in the air at the time. I am a story based song writer and I captured the essense of the moment. What you failed to realize is I wrote that song with a DL CAP LETTER LICENSE in my pocket! Did you think I was not aware of that fact? I don't expect you to understand because you are not a songwriter. That's OK. (p.s. - none of my children have birth certificates or SS#.. not that it matters if they do or don't)
R-J: I really don't want to offend you, I don't, but you seem to have the mentality of a little tough boy on the school yard.
Steve: You can't offend me. Speaking of tough boy in the school yard, is that your mentality when you make your 'spirited' calls in the night? Eldon, Jennifer. Back stabbing calls to ranches out West about your own 'brother in Christ'..Yeah, I hear all about it. LOL. So you going to put me in my place are you?
R-J: Yahushuah opened up the Kingdom to "whomsoever will", but he never negated his Father's desire to gather The Children of Israel into one Unity.[the story of lunk head Peter and the vision from heaven was about this]
Steve: Uh huh.
R-J: Remember Yahushuah did state for the record, "Why calleth me Good, for there is none Good but Yahuweh". {He said this to a rich young man who thought he kept the Law}
Steve: OK. Yet you claim Yahushua was YHWH in the flesh. I suppose Yahushua was talking to himself..... hmmmmm
R-J: If...the Blood sacrifice of Yahushuah messiah is repungnant to you and David, well, I can't, and won't bid you Good speed. [now what does Good mean?}
Steve: As far as I can tell David endorses Christ. It's me you have an issue with concerning 'da blood'. BTW, I need no bidding from you at all. Period.
R-J: I could post many quote's from learned RABBI'S, modern, who will emphatically state, and have, that modern Jew's are neither Hebrew's, nor Israelites, by blood. So your arguement should be to convince them that they are wrong.
Steve: Do you have any attention span left? I am challenging you on Anglo-Israelism. What does that have to do with 'modern Jews'? Focus man.
R-J: Plus, you both are cherry picker's, you only answer what fit's your opinion's. i.e. why did James address his letter to the twelve tribe's of Israel scattered abroad???
Steve: I did not answer your snip because first I wanted a strait answer from you on my challenge. Now you have changed your mind so I will address it. "Scattered abroad".. Could we get more vague? The burden of proof is on you to prove where. Let's see your proof. Let me guess: an Anglo-Israel booklet. That's like asking Enron for an accurate history of it's actions. Let's examine your source.
R-J: Why does history record that Yoseph of Arimathea, the only member of the Sanhedrin of 70, who voted against the murder of Yahushuah end up in 37 a.d. building a hutch for the purpose of teaching the new revelation...in London?
Steve: History? Church legends = Enron-type history until proven true. Show your source and let's examine it.
R-J: Why does YHWH swear that He will alway's have a son of David sitting on the earthly Throne that He gave to David? Because He keep's His Word.
Steve: Hey Genius: Hosea says Israel shall abide many days without a king, sacrifice and ephod. Now, show me an unbroken caucasian king line from Judah or Israel until today. The burden of proof is on you.
R-J: Why does the Jewish encyclopedia state that modern Jew's are Edomites? Answer these questions, one by one, and I'll play.
Steve: Why not? Deut 23:7 - Thou shalt not abhor an Edomite; for he [is] thy brother: thou shalt not abhor an Egyptian; because thou wast a stranger in his land.
R-J: Otherwise kiss my Scottish arse.
Steve: You are getting lonely in that tent. I'll pass.
R-J: Your insult's against me are overlooked.
Steve: Take them to heart if they will get the best effort from you.
R-J: Go ask Berkano if I support My Family.
Steve: LOL. Berkano has never even met your family and only knows what you selectively tell him!!! How about I ask some of your family members who actually know you? Answer: No!
R-J: Ask Kevin Reynolds.
Steve: Pointless.
R-J: Ask Brother Robert.
Steve: is your knife out of his back already?
Let me ask you a few questions because you are just blowing smoke:
1. How much of your hard earned money goes to feeding your children?
2. How many times have you called even your youngest daughter since YHWH removed your family?
3. When was the last time you called your only son?
4. Why are your x-wife and children happy and blossoming now, where as before they say there were in a 'living hell'?
Call it what you want, but you are a dead beat dad and a failed patriarch.
R-J: Oh, that's right, you don't understand the second birth, out of the CORPORATION. And that's ok, pal. Each man in his own Order.
Steve: You peddling pork. YHWH is a family man and you do not support your family.. worse than an infidel.
R-J: Really want to play? Critize me for not walking perfectly {as per your EYE SIGHT] in Tennessee?
Steve: Hey, you are the one with the self-proclaimed 'unadultrated walk'. You lied to this forum when you said you got thrown in the dungeon for 'not giving a last name'. Total absolute BS. I was there. You also lied on the Legality of Driver's License forum when you said that "Beth went through a road block without TAG and DL." Your words not mine. Never happened. Shall I go copy and paste these claims you have made?
R-J: Your like a cat call from the grandstand. Wanna play? Wanna say, "Father put me in"?
Steve: You don't get it. Father has put me in. Right here, right now.
Father put me in when he sent your family over here to escape the hell which was your house. I guess you don't 'hemmorage money' because of your family anymore. An answered prayer.
R-J: Na, you are hoping that someone will make an image of you as THE CRITIC.
Steve: You really need to get out of the mind reading business. You are failing at it miserably.
R-J: Wanna ask David Merrill if he is MR ALL CAP?
Steve: It is none of my business. I don't care if he is or not.
He is pleasent to converse with and very enjoyable to read. What's not to like?
R-J: Again, please print out those lyric's from that song, then you can continue?
Steve: Dealt with that above.
R-J: Wisdom from above is first peaceful.
Steve: Do you fashion yourself as a wise man?
R-J: Steven I mean no insult's to you.
Steve: You have no credibility in this house so I care not if you insult me. I do care for you and hope you pull out of this downward spiral. You should treat your friends better. You would be less lonely.
R-J: I thought I knew you, and now I stand in doubt. You are the one who can provide the answer as to just who you are, not me.
Steve: What do you expect? I hear all of the things you have consistently said behind my back. Now I am here to call you out. BTW, I am not asking you to tell me who I am.
R-J: Are you 'in the Son'? And can the Most High El Elyon have Children without your permission? The Most High want's children, and He is not threatened in His Greatness in this. Go ask Wisdom.{Proverb's 8} {Proverb's 9:1 also]For YHWH called His son...out of Egypt. Want to see how many times YHWH talk's about His Family and Son in scripture?
Steve: Let's deal with the Anglo-Israel doctrine first.
R-J: It is a given fact that Israel, heritage wise, is basically the caucasian race.
Steve: A given fact? The burden of proof is on you. I have the same books you do that assert this 'fact'. More Enron. But you will have your chance to prove it.
R-J: Go figure where and why the white race picked up the name caucasian. Since you are a U.S. citizen, [Steven} the next time you fill out your GOVT's, form where they ask you to check the race box, ya even know why you check the box...Caucasian? Word's mean something. Dariel pass, ever heard of it?
Steve: Seriously. Do you think I would have challenged you if I had not studied this? Come now. Let's see your proof. Put up or shut up.
R-J: But I am most likely wasting space, in that you won't answer anything that dosen't fit your opinion.
Steve: More fluff. Anybody who wants to check this false claim out, just search the conversations between Robert-James and myself.
R-J: Proverb's 9:9 Give {instructions} to a wise man and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man and he will increase in learning. {verse 12}.
Steve: Well let's see you back up your statements. Make your case.
Let's agree on five rebuttals to each point. You ready?
R-J: Go tune in Handel's messiah, and relax. BTW, compare your song, which you won't post, with Handel's.
Come on, post the song, and state why, it is of no effect...anymore for you.
Steve: I have already dealt with this above but I will address why 'it is of no effect': Because I have debunked the information that was feed to me which I took on faith because I respected those who were dispensing it. Anyone reading this can see the long debates I have had and the many unrebutted points I have brought up. brother Robert I still deeply respect. We don't have to agree. It's not a requirement for my respect of him. You I do not respect because of your selective reasoning, back stabbing and failure as a patriarch.
R-J: Dear Ecclesia,
James not only addressed his letter to the 12 tribe's of Israel, and stated: above thing's brethern...swear NO oath's, he added:
5:20, Let him [us} know, that he that "converteth a SINNER from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sin's".
James seem's to have been the blood brother of Yahushuah {Jesus}
Prayer change's things'.
Steve: Don't try to convert me. Debate me point by point on the Anglo-Israel theory. The ball is in your court. It's time for you to back up your claims. The one who asserts bears the burden of proof in the debate. You have made many assertions. Now let's get past this personal stuff and get on to the debate. I will start a thread called "debunking Anglo-Israelism" highlighting the assertions you have made.
Let's get it on.
Steven John |
Edited by - BatKol on 01 Sep 2004 00:15:19 |
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Robert-James
Advanced Member
uSA
353 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2004 : 09:51:09
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Hi Steve,
this is pointless and personal.
To say YHWH removed my family is your and others' way of avoiding any responsibility.
Joseph of scripture fame went through hell itself in order to save the entire House of Jacob/Israel. And, no, I am not comparing my self to Yoseph, but I say this regarding your mental concept is that you must applaud the brother's that sold him into slavery!
We'll leave it at that.
The law say's, no visitation, no money...regarding children and divorce. I offered Grace cash for a car, Holly her college tuition, both refused.
I did not leave my family, they left me. I am here for them, alway's.
Yahuweh did not leave us, we left Him. And Messiah Yahushuah will show us all the Way home. But you don't believe.
Oh that we all would humble ourselves, both you and me.
Peace. |
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Owenbrittont
Advanced Member
USA
86 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2004 : 17:03:14
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What country do you represent and whose flag ???
I represent the Kingdom of Heaven, as stated in the apostille, my supreme flag is the Christian flag ... |
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2004 : 13:49:01
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Robert-James: To say YHWH removed my family is your and others' way of avoiding any responsibility.
Steve: You are completely in denial and if there is to be any talk of responsiblilty you would have to then take into account your constant badmouthing of your own wife and family while they were still living under your roof. How crafty of you to mention that you have only spoken to the two adult children (and it even took a year to do that). Why not the three year old? How about the thirteen year old? Or the sixteen year old? You are not fooling anyone.
We can be done with this and focus on the pork doctrines you are peddling. I look forward to finally getting a chance to do this with you in public. |
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Apostille
