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True North
Advanced Member

USA
163 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2003 :  17:26:22  Show Profile
quote from science and the bible thread...This deception is called Dispensationalism, and whenever you hear anyone refer to the "dispensation of the gentiles" or the "rapture", you know that they have swallowed a talmudic lie cooked up some 150 years ago...end quote.

The anti-Semitism of this argument does not bode well on the credibility of the studies of the one making this statement. I'm disappointed, I figured the fundamentalism I was seeing was from study, not anti-semitism. We are all brothers and sisters in error, just ignorant in different areas. Attributing the rapture and dispensationalism to the Talmud reveals the depth of study undertaken.

Jesus is the Hebrew name Yeshua transliterated into English. Yeshua is a Jew (present tense) and always has been, he is not, and never has been a Christian. Yeshua was sent "unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel" and sent his twelve Jewish disciples "to the lost sheep of the house of Israel".

The implications of the Hebrew background of Yeshua are enormous. Just stating that Yeshua is a Jew can cause many to stumble over their learned doctrine.

Paul was a Jew, the disciples were all Jews. It is estimated that by the middle of the first century there were over 100,000 "believers" living in Jerusalem. Believing that Yeshua was the mashiach, christ, annointed one, of Israel and they were all Jews.

Yeshua the Jew sits on "the right hand of God" making "intercession for us" the Gentiles. The why and how Yeshua does this starts at the begining, in the Torah, at Genesis 1. That is why I study from the Hebrew and not the English.

Did you ever wonder why you can't find the proverb that Yeshua is purported to quote in Luke 4:23?

"And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country."

You can't find it because he is referencing Bereishis Rabbah 23, a part of the Jewish Gemara. The Talmud being commentaries and discussions or Gemara on the Mishnah of Rabbi Yehuda Ha Nasi. Jewish commentary known to Yeshua and Paul and all the other teachers. The followers of Yeshua knew most of the references although not to the extent the teachers did.

Dispensationalism and the rapture are both Christian doctrines that don't appear before 1830. The Talmud and Mishnah date much earlier.

I didn't post this to start strife, I posted it to try to get the body of Christ to think and acquire knowledge. The time is short and the harvest is plentiful.

Caleb
Advanced Member

Philippines
209 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2003 :  19:51:36  Show Profile
True North, you must have written your accusation before reading my post on the thread "The Lost Tribes of Israel", for you will find that I subscribe neither to your view, nor to the so-called "anti-Semitic" view either. They simply do not fit with reality, as they both miss half of the picture. Yah-shua (YAHweh is salvation) the Jew condemned in the most uncertain terms the Jews of His day who taught the Talmudic corruptions of the Torah (ie. the Pharisees). This is not to say that the whole Talmud is in error, but that it is the source of the very doctrines Yahshua expended great effort to correct. Where appropriate, he also used their writings to make His point.

Jews whose understanding of the world is colored by the Talmud are with us to this day, and it is they and their accomplices that wrote much of what passes for "Christian" doctrine today. Dispensationalism must first be recognized for the poison that it truly is. Then the thoughtful student will ask, "how could a doctrine less than 200 years old become accepted truth in almost every church today which claims to follow the Bible?" First you find the smoking gun, then you identify the fingerprint on it. Since the stated goal of the Talmudic Jews is the destruction of Christianity, it should come as no surprise to learn that they are clever enough to figure out how to destroy it from the inside.

Now if you have evidence that Dispensationalism is not Talmudic in origin, or that C.I. Scofield was not a Mason, or that Masonic doctrine is not Talmudic at its root, then please present this. If "attributing the rapture and dispensationalism to the Talmud reveals the depth of study undertaken" (ie. inadequate), then demonstrate this to be so. When you make such a blanket statement, you sound just like the true anti-Jews who see everything Jewish as evil.

Denouncing Talmudism is not a blanket condemnation of all Jews, though most treat it as such. Unlike Israel, Judah was never "divorced" by God. Paul affirms that the advantage of being a Jew is "much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God." Even today the Jews preserve rich truths that we cannot understand the scriptures without. It is these true Jews who will one day recognize their Messiah "whom they pierced". It is also these Jews who we, as true Israel, must be reunited with for God's word to be fulfilled.

You damage your own credibility when you write someone off with terms like "fundamentalism" and "anti-Semitism". Fundamentalists are all Dispensationalists, and my posts under "science and the bible" should have already been sufficient to show that I take great issue with the predominant ideas on race - politically correct or racist. Putting people into boxes like this, especially when the evidence is contrary, usually reveals a man is reaching the limits of his own understanding, but does not want to admit it.
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DanielJacob
Advanced Member

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2003 :  00:24:32  Show Profile  Visit DanielJacob's Homepage
Well put Caleb, it should also be noted that C.I. Scofield was a retrobate. He left his wife and two daughters and ran off with some whores. When he died his entire estate was worth less than nineteen thousand dollars that his heirs were fighting over. And this is the man that is most responsible for the doctrines that are taught in many of the so-called churches today. A good book to read that refutes the postulations of dispensationalism is Gospel of the Kingdom by Philip Mauro, 1927. You can find copies of it on the net.

Peace to all
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True North
Advanced Member

USA
163 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2003 :  06:31:07  Show Profile
Caleb, well said. I consider myself chastized and apologize to you for any damage I may have done to your reputation or sensibilities.

I may have indeed reached the limits of my ignorance but I cannot understand how a scientist can know the processes of geology and archaeology and still believe the earth is only 6000 years old except he wants to maintain the inerrancy of scripture. Indeed this brings to light the difficulty of which parts of the bible to believe but if the bible is inherently correct the problem is in the premise, not the scripture.

I will not argue against rationalization. The first six chapters of Genesis clearly show me what science and archaeology prove out, when I read from the Hebrew.

I can not prove anything about the masons but I do have references to the start of the rapture and dispensationalism. Scofield did indeed promulgate the doctrines and my references to the origin of the theories is less than extant.

My whole goal was not to debate the history of the earth or debate science but to provide the foundation for the doctrine of good faith.

I skimmed through your posts with a jaundiced eye because of my background in science and your adamant belief in a 6000 year old earth.

I apologize.
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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2003 :  09:12:14  Show Profile
Being that as a NATION Judah was not divorced, agreed, the throne in England is the...only one...on the face of the earth that can prove an unbroken line from Saul-David. PERIOD. The Queen, though possibly reprobate, holds the title to Davids throne and the promises of YHWH concerning this. And she is not Jewish. She is of Judah. She operates as a legal fiction nowadays.
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Surveyor
Regular Member

USA
31 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2003 :  19:29:49  Show Profile  Visit Surveyor's Homepage

The wise men seem to think that Yeshua was born King some 2000 years ago:
Mt:2:2: Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the
east, and are come to worship him.

Matthew seemed to think that Yeshua was King then also:
Mt:21:5: Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and
sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

Jesus (Yeshua) seemed to have the idea that he was King then also:
Mt:27:11: And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art
thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.
Mk:15:2: And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said
unto him, Thou sayest it.

Many others seemed to have gotten the idea that Yeshua was King then also:
Mt:27:42: He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now
come down from the cross, and we will believe him.
Mk:15:32: Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and
believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
Acts:17:7: Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar,
saying that there is another king, one Jesus.

Pilate seemed to think that Yeshua a King then also.
Mk:15:9: But Pilate answered them, saying, Will ye that I release unto you the King of the
Jews?
Jn:18:39: But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye
therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?


His disciples seemed to think Yeshua was King then.
Lk:19:38: Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in
heaven, and glory in the highest.

Nathanael believed that Yeshua was King.
Jn:1:49: Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art
the King of Israel.

Much people believed He was King then.
Jn:12:13: Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna:
Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

1Kings 12:16: So when all Israel saw that the king hearkened not unto them, the people answered the king, saying, What portion have we in David? neither have we inheritance in the son of Jesse: to your tents, O Israel: now see to thine own house, David. So Israel departed unto their tents.

It appears to me the Queen is an imposter.





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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2003 :  11:44:32  Show Profile
I did mention that Queen Elizabeth is a LEGAL FICTION! Nevertheless, she, as you, have some sort of status. She sits on David's throne, until the One, whose Right it is, appears. Pray tell where Davids throne was from 586 b.c. till 30 a.d. or 2 b.c. whichever you prefer. Where was the King of Judah??? Yahushua did NOT bring peace, as is promised in Genesis 49:10-11. He came to bring a sword....His own words. The real Kingdom has been in abeyance, with LEGAL FICTIONS operating here, in the flesh. If one would read and re-read scripture, one would SEE that Zachariah 9:9 mentions TWO entries into Yerusalem....the City of Peace. Only one has happened. In fact, if one would really understand scripture, one would SEE YaHuWeH has always been the King! Yahushua wore a crown of thorns, and did not come to claim the Throne at that time....30.a.d. He never stated He was David's son....they and you only assume He is. Read His own words on this matter. The desciples thought He was coming to claim the Throne....and they were sadly dissapointed! Read what they even asked Him in the first chapter of Acts! NO, he did not restore the Kingdom to Israel at that time. He was about the business of His Father, collecting the lost sheep scattered abroad. And this has been going on for nigh 2000 years now. IF you have made him King in your life, you obey the Kingdom of YHWH, with Yahushua the Annointed your Master. Did Yahushua ride upon an ass, AND upon the colt, the foal of an ass????? Check the scriptures for your answer. The Light may come upon you. Check each and every word of that prophecy in Zachariah 9:9. Then, and then, only, will We be able to Understand. If you stand before an earthly judge and he calls out SURVEYOR {assuming this is your name] your only defense AGAINST this LIE, is to say, "Thou saith". The earthly judges assume you are a LEGAL FICTION, as is the QUEEN. I have a secret for you: the King lives within you. Let Him come out and rule and reign. Until then, you are the LEGAL FICTION, and a pretender rules over your heart. A parallel universe exists, and men do not 'see' it. If "Yeshua" is a jew, you don't have a clue, as yet, what is really going on.
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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2003 :  12:23:02  Show Profile
Knowing the accuser of the Brethern is ever ready to accuse, I add.................Revelations 1:5 "and from Yahushua the annointed, the faithful witness, the first begotten of the DEAD, and the Prince of the kings of the earth." {Ephesians 1:20...when He raised him from the DEAD, and set Him at His own right hand} Yahushua right now rules over the earth, the Queen, the one world order boys, etc. But the question begs, does He rule over you? Now back to Revelations 1:6......and has made Us kings and priests into YHWH and His Father, to Him be glory and ...dominion....for ever and ever. Yahushua was the first {one} witness. The Law states, there must be ...two witnesses. will you be the second witness? If so, You will prove this to a doubting world? Quick hint, a CAPITAL LETTERED man with a ss# will bear false witness. America was envisioned to be a Nation of kings and priests. A U.S. citizen is held captive. Do you still have the vision? He comes again, to set the captives free. Yoseph is still waiting to 'see' Benyamin. {The son of the right hand]. In fact, Yahushua {Judah] stands SURETY} until Benyamin "appears". By the Way, if you stand surety you shall be punished. And Yahushua took that punishment! Paul says it is possible to crucify Him a second time. Please don't. Point in fact, the birthright goes to Yoseph.
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Surveyor
Regular Member

USA
31 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2003 :  15:00:14  Show Profile  Visit Surveyor's Homepage
“Yahushua did NOT bring peace, as is promised in Genesis 49:10-11. He came to bring
a sword....His own words.”

He came to bring peace to His own:

Jn:16:33: These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the
world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Acts:10:36: The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by
Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

Rom:2:10: But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew
first, and also to the Gentile:

Rom:5:1: Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord
Jesus Christ:

“Yahushua wore a crown of thorns, and did not come to claim the Throne at that
time....30.a.d. He never stated He was David's son....they and you only assume He is.”

Lk: 19:38: Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in
heaven, and glory in the highest.
39: And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke
thy disciples.
40: And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace,
the stones would immediately cry out.

This looks like a confirmation to me.

Their error was that they did not know what Yashua’s Kingdom looked like.

Rom:14:17: For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace,
and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Lk:22:25: And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them;
and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
26: But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger;
and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
27: For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth
at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
28: Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
29: And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30: That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the
twelve tribes of Israel.

The Kingdom of God is about liberty where men rule over their own hearts, not their
brother:

The Kingdom of God was at hand 2000 years ago:

Mt:3:2: And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mt:4:17: From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of
heaven is at hand.

Mt:6:33: But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things
shall be added unto you.

Mt:16:28: Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of
death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.


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True North
Advanced Member

USA
163 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2003 :  18:10:56  Show Profile
quote...Yah-shua (YAHweh is salvation) the Jew condemned in the most uncertain terms the Jews of His day who taught the Talmudic corruptions of the Torah (ie. the Pharisees). This is not to say that the whole Talmud is in error, but that it is the source of the very doctrines Yahshua expended great effort to correct. Where appropriate, he also used their writings to make His point...end quote.

Yahshua is not an accurate transliteration for Jesus, His name in Hebrew, is Yeshua. The transliteration comes from a lack of knowledge of both the Hebrew language and traditional Jewish beliefs. It is an attempt to combine the tetragrammaton YHVH and Yeshua, and translated as the shua, or salvation of Yah, ie:, Yahweh. This is incorrect. It is a method of reconstruction promulgated by the same group of people who published the Restoration of the Sacred Name Bible, a work so riddled with error as to make it worthless.

The whole anti-Semitic nature of the idea of "Talmudic corruptions of the Torah" or that Yeshua or any other Pharisee, such as Paul, saw the Talmud as anything other than the Torah is simply a lack of knowledge. What Yeshua, Paul and all the other teachers taught is found in Luke 24:27 where we are told exactly what was used to communicate the gospel of the kingdom. The writings of Moses, ie:, the Torah and all the Prophets.

Excerpt from Yavo...

The English word law is a very poor translation of the Greek word, nomos, used by Paul in his epistles. The meaning and scope of nomos is far greater than our English concept of law. Paul is Jewish, a "Hebrew of Hebrews." When he says "law" he is thinking Torah. Torah is Paul's way of life. The Torah is what Paul is. Torah had molded him from the beginning and made him what he was.

In Romans 7:12, Paul declares, "The law is holy and the commandment is holy and just and good." Paul viewed God with a Hebrew mind. The Greek mind had to reason everything out. The Greek mind was idealistic. They saw the world as it was, then tried to fashion it into what they thought it ought to be.

The Hebrew mind was realistic. Theirs was a God not thought out. They simply took Him for what He was and neither tried to explain nor understand. For them, much was a mystery, but that posed no problems. Questions could remain unanswered, things unknown. Only one thing they needed to know - God is and He is one. So great, so wonderful so powerful, so all-encompassing is He that one is left in wonder and awe.

Torah assists one in understanding something of the nature of God and His love for His people. Torah is a magnificent demonstration of God's grace. Jesus in speaking to the household of Israel, declares, "I did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it." Mat. 5:17.

How does one destroy the law? By misinterpreting it. How does one fulfill the law? By correctly interpreting it. From the Hebrew, the passage would be translated, "Think not that I am come to misinterpret, or to misapply, the law. Rather, I have come to correctly interpret and, thereby, cause the law to stand upright on a firm foundation."

According to that law that Jesus came to correctly interpret, non-Jews would have their part in the world to come through the observance of the Seven Laws of Noah. In some sources, these are reduced to four, ie, "pollutions of idols, fornication, things strangled, and from blood" (Acts 15:20 at the Jerusalem Council), or as few as three - idolatry, murder, and sexual impurity.

According to Paul, Jesus opened the flood gates of the kingdom to non- Jews that they might gain access to a greater understanding of, and a deeper relationship with God, as well as entering into a relationship with their fellow man. That was accomplished through God's grace. Man did not earnit. God, in His unmerited favor bestowed the gift upon mankind, a gift that was appropriated by (the) faith (of Yeshua).

The above is reproduced here for educational purposes only from Yavo Digest, Vol.7, No.1. from an article titled The Nature of Law by Roy B. Blizzard. The quotes are mine.

We seem to think that Law is bad and harsh and was superceded by something better because of passages like John 1:16-17. This is a grave injustice to God's revelation of himself to mankind.

When all scripture is given that the man of God may be perfect (from 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:) he is talking about Torah. The "new testament" didn't exist yet.
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True North
Advanced Member

USA
163 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2003 :  08:35:55  Show Profile
Robert-James

Please don't stop. Please begin again. I realise it is the Sabbat and you owe no man but I am starting to "evolve".

quote...Until then, you are the LEGAL FICTION, and a pretender rules over your heart. A parallel universe exists, and men do not 'see' it. If "Yeshua" is a jew, you don't have a clue, as yet, what is really going on...end quote


Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.


Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.


Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 08 Feb 2003 :  10:04:41  Show Profile
"My new name" should read....My re-newed name....Yahushua. Your re-newed name, will be spelled properly. Upper/lower cased. So simple, a child can understand. "Christian" is not the new name given His own. I will submit: am-eriy-can. Say it. This is three hebrew words. Strongs concordance.....#5971....#6179.....#3547. The meaning: "My people"......"watchful" {please check the roots of this word for further light]. "Officiating as priests". [Jews say priest is cohen....which is yiddish and hebrew mixed}. We are going back to paleo-hebrew....which pre-dates the Babylonian captivity and the talmud. Least we forget,Jews who deny the Messiah, are the ones who placed the vowel pointings. Others on this site, know very well that a U.S. CITIZEN has lost all his birthrights as an American because of the taking of benefits. Father Abraham would not take so much as a show lace from the king of Sodom. And it is not easy! The fire from the beast system can do nothing except burn off our flesh nature. But who is willing?
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True North
Advanced Member

USA
163 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2003 :  08:13:41  Show Profile
I see I'm going to be in need of a book...of the hundreds...soon.

The voice of him that crieth, In the wilderness prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Yeshua ha Mashiach.

As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water

and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.

For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.

(but) because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie

whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

God of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

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Caleb
Advanced Member

Philippines
209 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2003 :  07:23:09  Show Profile
True North, I see you are "evolving" as are we all. Thank you for your kind words.

With regards to scientific disciplines, Archaeology proves the Bible correct again and again. It is other sciences utilized by archaeologists, such as various dating methods, that cause problems for some. These are based on certain assumptions that, if untrue, discredit the entire method. Creation scientists have adequately shown how likely it is that these fundamental assumptions are false.

Geology was in fact, the last scientific discipline that held out convincing "proof" for me that the earth was millions or more years old. However, this was eventually shown to be based on false assumptions as well. It turns out that all dating methods only work on organic matter. You cannot date a rock at all! So geology is based on the assumption that layers of earth were laid down over millions of years, with the oldest layers being at the bottom. A layer is given an age, then any rock or item found in that layer is dated accordingly. But what proved or at least pointed to that layer being that old? Nothing! The geologist simply cannot imagine a process that would produce these layers in less than many millions of years. A global flood is one candidate that would do so - and produce millions of perfectly preserved fossils to boot.

The way you make people believe a lie in the modern world is to simply repeat it enough times. If you simply examine the lies surrounding evolution and its accompanying old earth you will see that it is completely dependent on people's ignorance of the facts. It is based on faith, not science, and its many adherents are unwilling to consider the alternative of a supernatural Creator. Those of us who are not afraid to consider both sides have found the Bible vindicated at every turn. My faith is supported by science, even the science of many honest secular college professors.

You made one other statement in a later post that needs some clarification. Can you please describe how the Talmud (rabbinic commentaries on the Hebrew scriptures) can be viewed as equivalent to the Torah (the first five books of the Bible)? I agree with all you said about the Torah and the fact that "law" is an inadequate translation of the word, especially with the negative implications the modern world ascribes to "the law". However, the Babylonian Talmud cannot be whitewashed by attributing to it all the positives of the Torah. If these rabbis got it all right, then where did the errors come from that Yahshua spent so much energy refuting?

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True North
Advanced Member

USA
163 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2003 :  10:31:54  Show Profile
Caleb

This is not an answer to your question and it is not a challenge. My first post to this forum reveal (to me) my motivations and my "kicking against the pricks". It is time consuming and extremely hard to overcome a lifetime of the knowledge of coercion (my interpretation of what the majority gains through eating from the tree of knowledge) and replace it with the knowledge of "Life".

I am no teacher to the ekklesia and I am ignorant in most of the ways of Life but I am not a naval (one who says in his heart there is no God). I despise instruction without references and yet am guilty of the same through apathy and laziness. I continue to post my opinions here to have them kicked around so that I can explore my own understanding and motivation.

I continue my study of Hebrew (in which I am no expert) to explore the concepts of Torah in the most extant writings available to me. The study of law and the concepts presented by the administrators of this forum are not new to me. It is only in the last three or four years that I have been able to put Law in its original context however and yet for many this may be an easy concept.

Hale vs. Henkel 201 U.S. 43 at 74 is a law case decided by the supreme court in 1905. It has been cited by the supreme court over 144 times and by the lower federal and State courts over 1600 times. It states in part..."The individual may...carry on his private business in his own way. His power to contract is unlimited. He owes no duty to the State or to his neighbors...".

The contradiction between this decision and what appears as the "real world" is one of the many reasons why I began to study State law. The "apparent" contradictions between "Seek ye first the Kingdom and tzedekah..." and the "real world" almost cost me my family 25 years ago. The knowledge of good and evil almost cost me my children later on. There is great deception being promoted and I will not go by "faith" or "belief". These are the same word in the Greek and they are a Hebrew concept that mean nothing in the English language. Faith is meaningless without action. My actions show my faith and only what I do, do I believe.

Caleb, your premise is "If these rabbis got it all right, then where did the errors come from that Yahshua spent so much energy refuting?" I don't hold to the premise that the rabbis were right. I do hold the premise that "you cannot fully understand many of the references in the bible without first trying to put yourself in the "shoes" of those who wrote it".

There is one rule concerning doctrine that I hold as a premise...If doctrine, when put into practical everyday use, brings liberty then it is probably of God. If it brings condemnation to my own heart when put into practical everyday use, then I shelve it until later.

I will dig back into my studies for my opinion on the Talmud but maybe you inferred something more than I actually stated based on your own conclusions drawn from your original premise. Or maybe it would be wise for me to take the council of Proverbs 17:28...

Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.
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n/a
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20 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2003 :  19:36:11  Show Profile
Hi All...I was just wondering if anybody knows how Yahweh's mother "Mary" was spelled in the original language of the books that mention her, I'm assuming the translations have changed her to "Mary", also does she have a last name?

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Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2003 :  11:48:38  Show Profile
Greetings In the name of Yahshua, The Messiah.

True North, Caleb, Robert James and Surveyor,
"My people have gone backwards," have come about because of all the lies, deceit and pervertion of His Law. Pinpointing those transgressors
is the key of understanding why, what, when and where.

Paul was a transgressor as I, "the old man" was. That happened because when one sleeps on a dogs bedding, one becomes infested with fleas.
Those fleas become dependent on your blood. Until I entered His Spirit and RAID THEM ALL. RAID!!!! :)

Whom controls, effectively (they say), all three branches of government? Whom make "rules" from the bench, legislative and executive branches. Whom control the media, banks, etc...?

A Dios,
Manuel
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