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 Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2003 :  23:52:51  Show Profile
I just stumbled across something, and I don't quite know what to make of it. The USC provides for the renunciation of one's citizenship to the United States and for the re-affirmation of one's citizenship to the united States of America and to the state of one's birth.

Do you know of anyone who has done this? Any thoughts of what the results would be?

In reading some of the stuff that Randy Lee has written, and the wording of some of the things he has said in some trials, it appears that he may have done this.

If this could be done, it seems that it would certainly put you beyond the reach of the tax-man.

Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 10 Mar 2003 :  07:48:38  Show Profile
Roman time: 7/27/1868. {one day before the 14th ammendment was passed} this happened...: be it enacted by the Senate and the House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, that any declaratory instruction, order or decision of any Offices of this government which denies, restricts, impares, or questions the right of expatriation, is hereby declared inconsistent with fundamental principals of this government. United States Statues at Large, Volume 15, Chapter 249, page 223, 40th Congress. i.e. expatriation back to being an American is possible. Yahuweh has not made the Way impossible...just hard, and few there be that find "it". Americans existed before the Constitution. The question begs; what is an am-eri-can? Three hebrew words. The Law and Covenants are to the Houses of Judah and Israel...they be un-conditional. I have never read of a covenant, in scripture, to the house of Christian! I think the Pope has covenants for christians. Expatriate from the benefits of U.S. citizenship is a must, not some verbal pandering. satan must always function UNDER the True Law, and he be a deceiver, trickster, and the natural man follows him. Only the spirit man hears the Voice of Yahuweh-Yahushua, and follows Him to greener pastures.
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DanielJacob
Advanced Member

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 10 Mar 2003 :  17:09:38  Show Profile  Visit DanielJacob's Homepage
You may want to check out this web site: http://www.4peakstech.com/links/chrish/TaxFreedom/FormsInstr.htm
on the left hand side there is a grouping number 4 and number 4.13 of examples of letters and forms that can be served on the government entities concerning these matters.

Peace brother....
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 10 Mar 2003 :  21:23:11  Show Profile
That is an interesting website. I shall have to spend some time reading their ideas.

Thanks.

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Caleb
Advanced Member

Philippines
209 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2003 :  23:35:06  Show Profile
I have looked at the Tax Freedom web site listed above. While the statutory and court references are helpful, I would not recommend that anyone send in the Expatriation form on the site. It depends almost exclusively on Statutory "law", and it contains some misapplications and contradictions that could be used to negate it at best and get you in trouble at worst.

"Officially" expatriating sounds very appealing, provided it would truly result in our being left alone. So far, I have not come across anyone with an approach that seems like it would achieve what we want. I have spoken with one brother who exchanged some official letters regarding expatriation many years ago, and he does not recommend it at this time.
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doer
Advanced Member

uSA
198 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2003 :  04:36:00  Show Profile
Caleb speaks True.

"Statutory law" is a major web of the Matrix -- designed to firmly entangle us in The System, and hold us so that we can be bled for all we are worth. There is absolutely NO relief via "statutory law," that I am aware of.

Even processes such as bankruptcy do not really absolve you of your debt, but continue to hold you to The System. Irwin Schiff has done a marvelous job of beating the IRS over their heads with their own "law." (ttp://www.paynoincometax.com/) But it is only a "holding pattern," because they continually change the rules. The only true recourse is in the Common Law.

Be Well,
Doer

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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2003 :  17:52:37  Show Profile
Is this the same Irwin Schiff who had 80,000 frn's lifted from HIS Bank of Amerca account {by the IRS} and could not get it back? I think so. Good ol Irwin does not want to leave the system, yet refuses to pay his tithes to his god. Naughty, naughty, Irwin. Those who serve Yahushua are free from irs taxtation. Those within the other kingdom, man's, pay their lords and masters. But the Children are free. Want to attend a $500.00 irs seminar or read the New Testament? The choice is yours.
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2003 :  16:54:52  Show Profile
pacinlaw.org does renunciation of citizenship too.

Renouncing means no unemployment benefits or social security benefits. It also means telling your employer to stop withholding federal, state, and SSN taxes because its fraud if you continue to use the number. Pacinlaw.org says most employers have to be sued to get them to stop withholding because the employer believes the SSN is required by law.

Another drawback is if you ever need to go back to work -- without the SSN you can forget about being hired again.

Irwin Schiff should have renounced a long time ago, but he likes money too much to do that. The income he receives is from credit card transactions and checks, and both are reported to IRS by banks. As much as Irwin's been through with IRS I'm surprised he's never had a heart attack.


Edited by - Livefree on 05 May 2003 16:57:16
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2003 :  19:01:41  Show Profile
Well, I should have updated my original post a long time ago. In doing a LOT of further research, I have found that even though you renounce your citizenship, you are still liable to the "system" for 10 years.

As to no unemployment benefits and no social security benefits, it is my belief that the primary objective of this forum is to remove ourselves from Caesar's world and his influence. To want to hang onto these two things is to not want to fully trust our Creator to provide us with what we need.

Even if Schiff had renounced 9 years ago, the thugs would have still come in and did what they did. The question is, does he have enough knowledge to make them pay for violating his rights.

Peace,

Lewis
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2003 :  21:05:24  Show Profile
The primary objective of this forum is to remove you from Caesar's world, but I haven't seen any suggestions from anyone here about how-to do that. I don't think the lord wants us to live as paupers either.

Getting rid of the SSN is easy enough, surviving after the SSN is quite another story.

As far as being liable to the system for 10 years, I believe that's only for those with incomes of $100,000 or more.

Schiff is an educated man, but he's also very stubborn. He won't admit to being wrong. He hasnít changed his tactics in 25 years, despite thousands of people who have gotten into trouble using his zero return. If you were to suggest the UCC to him he would not look into it. He's a statutory man despite the fact that the laws are not what the courts are enforcing, they are enforcing contracts. It is honor and dishonor. In the courts if you are the creditor you win if you are the debtor you lose If you argue the laws you will lose. Every charge is a commercial offer, if you accept the charge you are the creditor. Schiff would say that that is nothing but a bunch of gooblydegook. I hope he doesn't go to prison again, but if he does, it will be his last time.



Edited by - Livefree on 05 May 2003 21:06:31
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2003 :  22:16:53  Show Profile
Livefree, please see my posts about my efforts to get out of Caesar's system. I am still learning and working toward my Freedom. I have taken only 2 of the 6 steps I feel are necessary. But, I know people who have done it and aren't relying on the usual processes for their living.

No, the liability applies to anyone. I found a court case of a guy who was basically a pauper when he moved to Canada. Almost immediately after being granted a residence visa, he renounced his citizenship to the U.S.A. About 5 years later, he became a Canadian citizen. About year 8 the IRS had him extradited for failing to file tax returns for the 5 years before he became a Canadian. Just one example I discovered.

There is only one man I know of who has consistently beaten the IRS every time in court. That is Randy Lee. Search ecclesia for more information about him. He is totally out of the system. He doesn't even acknowledge that their system exists.

Peace,

Lewis
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2003 :  22:58:42  Show Profile
I know of Randy Lee. I have a ton of his tapes and a few of the newsletters.

Setting yourself free definitely takes time, that's for sure.


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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2003 :  00:03:14  Show Profile
Somewhere up here is my post about how Randy Lee helped an uncle of one of my friends to save his family farm from the IRS.

Lewis

Edited by - Lewish on 06 May 2003 00:04:11
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DanielJacob
Advanced Member

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2003 :  11:29:34  Show Profile  Visit DanielJacob's Homepage
Brothers,

I believe that the 10 years only applies if the reason that you expatriate to avoid paying income taxes. If you expatriate for any other reason, say because of your belief that you can no longer be a part of the Babylonian system and you have been called out by the Eternal our Father, then the 10 years would not apply.

Peace to all.
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DanielJacob
Advanced Member

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2003 :  11:43:09  Show Profile  Visit DanielJacob's Homepage
Brothers,

I have known Randy for about eight years. There is a specific reason that he has beaten the IRS and if you ask him he will tell you. It is because he makes no claims and admits no attachments to the system. He does not possess a drivers license, or registration, he does not acknowledge the SS#, he does not partake of free mail delivery, he does not have numbers on his abode, etc., etc., etc. This is what is meant by having Standing in Law. You cannot claim, in their courts, that you are a bondman of the Christ, which Randy is very specific about, and still have the any marks of the world.

Peace to all.
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DanielJacob
Advanced Member

USA
138 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2003 :  12:12:07  Show Profile  Visit DanielJacob's Homepage
Brothers,

Below is a letter that I sent out about five years ago. I got no reply and I have no idea what impact it had. I do keep a copy of it in my conveyance along with my Bible.

By: Daniel Jacob, suae potestate esse
general delivery
Salisbury Post Office
Salisbury, North Carolina

To all to whom these Presents come and may concern;

Greetings and Salutations from My Sovereign Lord and Saviour, Jesus, the Christ, and my Self by Visitation. Be it known throughout His Kingdom and all His dominions that My Lawful Christian Name is Daniel Jacob, spelled, in Proper English as, D-a-n-i-e-l J-a-c-o-b. This is how My Name is written in the Lambís Book of Life, and this is how I am to be known among Men. I am not, nor is it Lawful for Me to assume any unlawful persona designata, pseudonym, nom de guerre, or other commercial fiction. I am who My Lord says I am, and I am no other. Men are not to be denominated merchandise, and it interests the commonwealth that men be preserved, interest reipublicś quod homines conserventur.

The Law which binds My Conscience, compels My Obedience, and orders My Witness among Men, is the whole counsel of My Sovereign Lord and Saviour, Jesus, the Christ, as it has been revealed, preserved, and received immemorial by His church, in His Name, by His Authority, under Direction of His Warrant, Mandate, and Will contained in His Writ, revealed both in His Testament written of Him in Holy Scripture and in Him. In accordance with His Law, to which I am bound, and to which I owe My unwavering allegiance, being a Presbyter, and being co-heir and appointed co-Executor of His Testament, governing His Estate, brought into being by His original Act, sworn to by Him in His Testament, and in execution of the Judgments declared therein by Him, I, Daniel Jacob, hereby declare and make known My Purpose to defend the Crown Rights of My Sovereign Lord and Saviour, the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lords, Jesus, the Christ, and the sacred Honour of His church, which He has purchased with His Blood, and which He has commissioned to disciple unto the nations, from the willful acts and wicked slander of His and Our enemies, and to occupy His Lands and maintain His possessions until He returns. It interests the commonwealth that menís last wills be held valid, interest reipublicś suprema hominum testamenta rata haberi, and, the last will of a testator is to be thoroughly fulfilled according to his real intentions, testatoris ultima voluntas est perimplenda secundum veram intentionem suam, and, mens testatoris in testamentas specianda est, and, the wicked or malicious designs of men must be thwarted.

By and under the Ministerial Power and Authority vested solely in and appertaining to the Ministerial Office of Christ, established in Truth and Substance by the Grace of God through my Sovereign Lord and Saviour, Jesus, the Christ, and which is the Foundation of Law, customs and usages common among all Good and Lawful Christians, being co-heirs and appointed co-Executors of His Testament governing His Estate brought into being by His original Act sworn to by Him in His Testament, and in execution of the Judgments declared therein by Him, I, Daniel Jacob, am made alive, am justified, and through repentance, am excused from further performance to any jurisdiction or contract foreign to and inimical to His Dominions and His Government. It is not the Will of My Lord that I assume or accept any suretyship, license, commercial enumeration, social insurance or welfare, citizenship, residence, or any other benefit, gift, or emolument whatsoever, which shall render this Good and Lawful Christian Man subject to the jurisdiction of a bankrupt and civilly dead corporation, agency, or person, thereby unlawfully joining His Temple of the Holy Spirit to a harlot and thus violating the express Command of the True and Living God to "flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul" (Jeremiah 51:6). A privilege or benefit is not granted against oneís will, and it is not the Will of My Lord, and My Heavenly Father, that His church be so defiled. No one is able to do a thing unless he can do it Lawfully.

Page One of Two



As, Jesus, the Christ, has commanded all Good and Lawful Christian Men to be at Peace amongst Themselves and with all Men, so do I seek, and shall pursue, peace with My Brethren in this state, for it especially concerns the commonwealth that peace be preserved in the Kingdom, and that whatever things are against His peace be prudently avoided.

Let all Men in My audience this Day hear the Word of the One True and Living God:

"The LORD is our judge; the LORD is our lawgiver; the LORD is our king; he will save us"
(Isaiah 33:22).

"Thus saith the LORD of hosts; The children of Israel and the children of Judah were oppressed together; and all that took them captives held them fast; they refused to let them go. Their Redeemer is strong; the LORD of hosts is his name: he shall thoroughly plead their cause; that he may give rest to the land, and disquiet the inhabitants of Babylon" (Jeremiah 50:34).

This Good and Lawful Christian Man, will henceforth exercise My Right of Avoidance and, by the Grace of God, maintain the Law of Peace, His Dominions and the preservation of His Peace, Inherited through Him by Me, according to His Testament, for "...as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His Name," and "ye shall find rest unto your souls" and which I have been given that aforesaid Ministerial Power appertaining to the high and Sacred Office of Christ to minister the aforesaid Inheritance in His Name and by His Authority, for His Glory and Majesty, My Immunities, and Our general customs and usages under Him, and stand upon the grounds set out above.

In Witness, Knowing the Punishment for bearing false witness before Almighty God and Men, I voluntarily set my Hand and Seal.

I have by the Grace of Almighty God the Honor of being a Good and Lawful Christian,
L.S.


,suae potestate esse


Sign Manual

We, the undersigned Good and Lawful Christian Men in this state, having ascertained that our Brother, Daniel Jacob, has read and knows the contents of this statement, witnessed his execution and sealing of the same, and do herewith testify to the foregoing by voluntarily setting Our Hand and Sealing this statement.

I have by the Grace of Almighty God the Honor of being a Good and Lawful Christian

,suae potestate esse


Sign Manual


I have by the Grace of Almighty God the Honor of being a Good and Lawful Christian

,suae potestate esse


Sign Manual


Page Two of Two


If I were to send this letter today I would make only a few minor changes.

Peace to all.
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