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Caleb
Advanced Member
Philippines
209 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Feb 2003 : 05:56:32
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This topic began as a side discussion on the thread "science and the bible", but it is rich enough in itself to deserve its own thread. I will not be able to do this subject justice, so I will briefly state the predominant opinions, the flaws I see in them, and the view I believe scripture leads us to. The predominant view is that the Jews are God's chosen people and after 2000 years they are back in their homeland and all of scriptural prophecy leading up to the tribulation has been fulfilled. We gentiles were just a side-show while God waited around for this to happen, and now that it has happened we are really out of the picture as far as God's important plans. This view emanates from almost every sermon, book or movie on the "last days", so we are all very familiar with it.
Robert-James, I went to www.missiontoisrael.org and read a bit. This site seems well representative of what I would call the "other" side. Far from being second-rate citizens in God's kingdom, we White Anglo-Saxon Protestants ARE the physical descendants of Israel, while the Jews are just a Central-Asian band of imposters. While there is much in this view that I would agree with, I will also submit that you have only part of the story. Much of my information has come from an author whose web site is: www.israelite.info.
How can two very different groups claim to be the true heirs to the promises to Abraham? Simple, they can both trace their roots back to him, and the Bible even shows clearly how they came into being. After king Solomon, his kingdom was split into two parts. The northern ten tribes became known as the house of Israel, while the southern two tribes became known as the house of Judah. When the northern tribes went into captivity, they forgot much of their identity and migrated first northwards and later westwards to populate a largely empty Europe. When the southern tribes were taken away to Babylon, they maintained their unique identity and became known as Jews.
Today these two groups of "God's chosen people" remain divided, and neither one seems inclined to view the other as fellow heirs of the promises of God. Yahshua (Jesus) confronted this attitude among the Jews of his day, yet it still continues even among "Messianic" Jews, and the Christian Identity movement does not appear to be doing any better. The problem with the Jews' view is simple: they just act like the other ten tribes are gone forever. However, Yahshua and his apostles never had this mindset. Just look at James 1:1 or Revelation 7 for a few examples.
While most Christians need to understand the profound implications of the origins of the Caucasian race, still my goal here is to point out the flaws being taught by most proponents of Christian Identity. The biggest problem is the several places where they contradict themselves. For example, some believe that the Caucasian race came from Adam and that all other races are "pre-adamic". Yet then they show how the Caucasians came from the lost tribes of Israel, several millenia after Adam. Similarly, they claim that the Ashkenazi (Eastern European) Jews are Edomites - descendants of Esau, but then they want them to be also descended from Ashkenaz, a son of Japheth. Finally, like the Jews, they want to claim all the promises of scripture for themselves, while at the same time denying their fellow heir, Judah. At the very least they seem just as convinced that Judah is "lost" as the Jews are convinced that the northern tribes are lost.
Now lets trace the Bible's story to show that BOTH groups are co-heirs and the Bible cannot be understood without properly identifying them both. Genesis is a story about two brothers. The first half of the book is always about which brother will get to carry on the blessing and birthright. The other brother usually gets disqualified by despising God's promises or commandments and goes on to form a tribe of pagans. However, a change occurs in the second part of the book as we have the story of Jacob/Israel and his two wives and twelve sons. First there is a contest between the two sisters/wives which is later played out between two sons. Joseph seems to be the clear winner right up to the end. But when it comes time for Jacob to bless his sons, we read the shocker of the the whole book: the blessing goes to Judah, the son of the unloved wife.
1 Chronicles 5:2 reads "For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph¡¯s." From this point on, the story of God's people will always be about two brothers with separate, but equally important destinies. We see this when Israel enters the promised land with only two men from the original band who left Egypt: Joshua and Caleb. What tribes were they from? Joseph and Judah, of course. When the kingdom splits, the southern tribes are known as "house of Judah", and the northern tribes are known as the "house of Israel" or Joseph or Ephraim. From that time on all prophecies will be directed at either one "house" or the other or both, but they will always be described separately. Ezekiel makes this very clear. In chapter 4 he prophesies first against Israel and then against Judah to signify the length of their captivity. Later, in chapter 37 we read the end of this story. The first half of the chapter is only about the dead ("lost"?) house of Israel, which God says He can bring back to life. However the second half says that the two "houses" will be reunited. All we have to do now is fill in the middle.
In Yahsua's day we see that there were true Jews and false Jews (the talmud practicing Pharisees). One group he and the apostles affirmed, while the second group was resoundingly condemned. Further, Yashua stated that his calling was only to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel". He had come to "seek and save that which was lost". Read the parable of the prodigal son and you will see that the two sons are clearly Israel and Judah. So even 2000 years ago the restoration of the house of Israel was clearly in sight, but it had not happened. Nor has it happened yet, for it will not happen until the "last days".
In the meantime, even the remnant of Judah that was in Palestine at the time of Messiah was soon scattered among the nations. A much larger group of Jews had remained scattered among the old Media/Persian empire since the time of Esther. Amazingly, these Jews would follow the same migration pattern of their "brother" Joseph/Israel, and end up first in Central Asia between the Black and Caspian seas and later in Europe. Just look at any map showing the Scythians, followed by a map showing the Khazars. They both appear north of the Caucassus mountains and later migrate to Europe. One is just later in time than the other. Today there are Jews back in Palestine, but the house of Israel is still "lost", so there is more to go on God's prophetic plan.
What confuses many is the idea that a group must either be all good or all bad. We have a situation today where many of the banking families controlling the world are Jewish, so many assume that all Jews are bad because of this. Similarly, any claim to righteousness on the part of Christians/Israelites rings hollow, for the New World Order is being driven just as much by the Caucasian Masons and Catholic church. Can it be that the final battles depicted in Revelation are fought by false Judah in partnership with false Israel (two beasts), while the saints depicted are true Judah reunited with true Israel? |
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Lewish
Advanced Member
uSA
496 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2003 : 02:44:37
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Caleb, that is an interesting read. Have you by any chance seen the documentary "In Search of the Lost Tribes of Israel"? It was the result of many years of search, research and lots of man hours trying to find the remnants. The film maker had an ulterior motive. He wants the remnants brought home so that the apocalypse will happen and the Messiah will come. Oh, did I memtion the film maker is a devout Jew? He is a prominent film maker in Canada, and the Canadian Arts Foundation funded much of the research. He also reads and speaks fluently both Hebrew and Aramaic. So, when he came across ancient Aramaic inscriptions in Afghanistan and Pakistan he could immediately translate them to the people watching the film being made.
It is quite a fascinating film. He makes a good argument for having found decendants of all the tribes amoung people living today. DNA testing has proved him right in several cases.
I purchased a copy of the documentary, but my copy is out on loan, or I would give you more information about it.
Bottom line is, we Christians are looking for the restoration of all the tribes to signify the SECOND coming of Christ and the Jews are looking for the same thing to signify the FIRST coming of Christ. We are all looking for the same thing but for different reasons.
Peace,
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Edited by - Lewish on 02 Mar 2003 02:45:38 |
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Caleb
Advanced Member
Philippines
209 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2003 : 18:22:01
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Lewis,
Do you have the name of the film maker or a link to where the film can be purchased? It sounds excellent. And yes, there are many Jews who see the exact same things in the Old Testament reagarding the return of all 12 tribes to Israel and the coming of the Messiah. It is only once He shows up that these Jews expected the first appearance of Messiah will then recognize "him whom they have pierced".
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Robert-James
Advanced Member
uSA
353 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2003 : 19:56:24
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| For what it is worth: On hearing of George Washington's death, Thomas Jefferson stated, "Israel has lost a great man today". Who is so blind as My servant? saith YHWH. |
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Lewish
Advanced Member
uSA
496 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2003 : 21:14:51
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Caleb,
The A & E network was partial funder for the film. That is where I purchased the copy I have. Check their website.
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DanielJacob
Advanced Member
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2003 : 12:18:18
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Speaking of the lost (meaning location, and not spiritually): Does anyone have any knowledge of what happened to brother John Joseph formerly of The Kings Men. Does anyone know if he has a bulletin?
Peace brothers... |
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doer
Advanced Member
uSA
198 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2003 : 18:01:02
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You could try calling Randy Lee at
818-347-7080 |
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Lewish
Advanced Member
uSA
496 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2003 : 14:46:45
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About a year ago, there was a Nova special on investigative work being done by a British group who were comparing the DNA of some peoples in Zimbabwe to people, in Israel, who claimed to be "true" Jews. The people in Zimbabwe did not appear to be any different physically, from their neighbors, but spiritually they practiced Judaism. They even had a few who claimed to be priestly decendants.
Well, after comparing the DNAs of some 500 of these people in Zimbabwe with 500 people in Israel, the scientists concluded that they were the same people. More interesting was that those people in Zimbabwe who claimed to be decendants from Aaron and Levi shared a destint genetic marker with the Cohen is Israel who made the same claim. No other people, at least none found so far, have this distint marker in their DNA sequence.
So, it appears that the "lost" tribes of Israel, aren't lost. It just that the rest of the world doesn't know where they are. They know and the Father knows. And that is all that really matters.
Peace,
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Edited by - Lewish on 04 Mar 2003 14:49:51 |
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Robert-James
Advanced Member
uSA
353 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2003 : 17:42:16
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| Lewish, careful on the tv "facts". This assumption is based on Jews in Palestine being hebrews and or Israelites. Many rabbi's, and I have their quotes, state emphatically that the vast majority of modern people who go by the descriptive term, Jew, are not in fact Israelites or ancient dna hebrews. However many times a lie is told, can not change a lie into Truth. |
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Lewish
Advanced Member
uSA
496 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2003 : 20:52:20
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Hi Robert-James,
I try to be very careful with everything I write or say. I use extreme caution in trying to totally accurate.
And while I agree with your statement that many who are living as Jews are not in fact decendants of the original conquerers of Caanan, there is a much deeper point here. The 500 people in Israel who claimed to be Cohen carried a DNA marker that no other inhabitants of Israel carried. And thousands were tested. This study took over 5 years just to process the DNA.
So, here you have 2 groups of people, who are physically very different in appearance, both living by the Law of the Torah, living some 2000 miles apart, possessing a DNA marker that has not been found in any other people, who did not claim to be a decendant of either Aaron or Levi.
Therefore, I can only conclude one of two things. Either there is something very special here, or all DNA testing is bogus.
Which do you think? Differences of opinion are fully welcomed.
Peace to all in Jesus,
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