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Jay Scott
Advanced Member

uSA
181 Posts

Posted - 23 Apr 2006 :  14:47:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
An interesting article regarding statelessness forwarded to me by a friend and brother.

'Stateless American' found on raft puzzles Sweden

Saturday, April 22, 2006; Posted: 9:28 p.m. EDT (01:28 GMT)

STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) -- Swedish authorities Saturday are investigating how a man calling himself a "stateless American" ended up floating on a raft of oil barrels and wood planks in the waters between Denmark and Norway.

More might be found here:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/04/22/raft.rescue.ap/index.html

Be blessed.

Jay Scott

Oneisraelite
Advanced Member

uSA
833 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2006 :  10:52:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings and salutations, brother Jay:
Peace be unto the house.
From the article: "He will be held in police custody until Monday, when authorities will contact the U.S. Embassy to try to confirm his identity, Fuxborg said."
If they cannot "confirm his identity", this could prove to be quite interesting! Thanks, bro.

fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional USA or STATE OF ISRAEL.
Ephesians 2:12 & 19
An act done by me against my will is not my act.
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Linc
Advanced Member

Canada
111 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2006 :  02:33:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Are there any updates to this story? I'm curious what Sweden will do with a stateless man.
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Jay Scott
Advanced Member

uSA
181 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2006 :  09:36:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Same story, more links:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060423/ap_on_re_eu/sweden_raft_rescue
http://www.dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,18904319-5001027,00.html
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060424/4003674.asp
http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/nationworld/story/5685173p-5096319c.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/04/22/stateless-american-foun_n_19618.html

I did a quick clusty.com search for "stateless american". I have no update, though.

Be blessed.

Jay Scott
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2006 :  12:43:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings Brothers,

OK, please explain the oxymoron of "Stateless American". If he is an American, he isn't stateless. If he is stateless, he isn't an American.

So, what is he? Maybe just a publicity gag.


Peace,

Lewis
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aksis
Junior Member

uSA
19 Posts

Posted - 30 Aug 2006 :  13:25:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
OK, please explain the oxymoron of "Stateless American". If he is an American, he isn't stateless. If he is stateless, he isn't an American.


America is a combination of 2 continents, North and South America. It is not a "state", it is simply what most people call that particular land mass.

On this land mass called "America", many states have been formed via paper, ink & mutual agreement[s].

That would be the long and short of it.
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member

uSA
833 Posts

Posted - 30 Aug 2006 :  18:46:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings and salutations, aksis:

Peace be unto the house.

Aside from the fact that we thought that the continent called America was made up of three parts, North, Central and South Americas we otherwise concur with what you have said. One could be a native American, a man born on the land of that continent, without being a citizen of any man-made STATE.

We are citizens of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the man-made, fictional STATE OF ISRAEL, yet we might also call ourselves native Americans since our place of nativity was in the place men call North America.


brother Robert: fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisar'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional STATE OF ISRAEL.
Ephesians 2:12 & 19

Edited by - Oneisraelite on 31 Aug 2006 07:14:56
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Oneisraelite
Advanced Member

uSA
833 Posts

Posted - 31 Aug 2006 :  07:36:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings once more, aksis:

Peace be unto the house.

Seems the free online encyclopedia, Wikipedia, sides with your interpretation. We stand corrected.

"The Americas are the lands of the Western hemisphere or New World consisting of the continents of North America and South America with their associated islands and regions." [Emphasis added]

And according to our reading of Webster's 1988 New World Dictionary of American English, Third College Edition, page 228, "Central America" seems to be "part of North America between Mexico and South America; often considered [apparently only considered] to extend from the Isthumus of Tehuantepec to the Isthmus of Panama [Emphasis added]

But to continue on with the dialogue of this thread...

..."Individuals may also become stateless voluntarily, by formally renouncing their citizenship while on foreign soil; however, not all states recognize such renunciations on the part of their citizens."... - Wikipedia

Interesting condition, "while on foreign soil", is it not? Simon says, "You cannot renounce your citizenship unless your feet are on foreign soil".

Furthermore, if one is supposedly not permitted to renounce their citizenship unless "Simon Says", and citizenship is, Lawfully speaking, a purely voluntary affiliation, would it not be a fair assessment to say that that man is no longer a voluntary servant, but becomes, at the precise moment of denial, an involuntary servant, i.e. a slave? But wait, isn't involuntary servitude expressly forbidden by their own CONSTITUTION?

AMENDMENT XIII [1865] Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. - Black's Law Dictionary, Abridged Sixth Edition, page 1128


brother Robert: fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisar'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional STATE OF ISRAEL.
Ephesians 2:12 & 19

Edited by - Oneisraelite on 31 Aug 2006 08:39:57
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 14 Apr 2007 :  21:14:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Greetings,

I will stand by my original posting. If he is an American, he isn't stateless. There is no soil in either North America or South America or Central America, if you want to consider that as separate, that is not part of a "State".

So, I will repeat my original stand.




Lewis
A Man on the Land on Washington as a Citizen thereon.
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mikah2k
Regular Member

USA
34 Posts

Posted - 07 Jun 2007 :  01:10:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://sedm.org/Forms/Emancipation/SSTrustIndenture.pdf
Regarding statelessness,

Page 9, Paragraph "5." contains the following quote

quote:
I am a "stateless person" and a "transient foreigner" with a legal domicile not within any "State" as defined in 28 USC 1332(d), 4 USC 110(d) or 26 UUSC 7701(a)(10) See Newman-Green v. Alfonso Larrain, 490 U.S. 826 (1989( for a description of the implications of being a "stateless person". All such "stateless persons" are not subject to the jurisdiction of any federal court because domiciled outside of the general jurisdiction of the federal government.


The findlaw link to the case on the page is
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=490&page=826
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Bondservant
Forum Administrator

381 Posts

Posted - 23 Apr 2009 :  11:54:21  Show Profile  Visit Bondservant's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Raft man identitified by mother

18 May 2006
http://www.thelocal.se/3835/20060518/

A previously unidentified man rescued while drifting on a makeshift raft in the North Sea was identified when his mother in the Czech Republic recognised him from photographs, police said on Wednesday.

* Raft man deported (19 May 06)
* Fingerprints reveal raft man is Czech (16 May 06)
* Raft man lived in London (2 May 06)

The man comes from Mlada Boleslav, around 50 kilometres north-east of Prague and was recognised by his mother from photographs, Mlada Boleslav police spokesman Ladislav Mares told the Czech news agency, CTK.

The man was held in Sweden after being rescued by a Norwegian ship last month when it found him drifting on a makeshift raft of barrels and planks in international waters between Norway and Denmark.

The man, identified by Swedish police only as Jyri, speaks good English and had told Swedish authorities that he came from California. He claimed he had been thrown off a British boat.

Swedish police later said they believed he had spent the past two years homeless in Britain.

Czech police said he emigrated to Germany in 1989 and stayed abroad until 2002. Between 2002 and 2004, he lived in various parts of the Czech Republic and abroad, Mares said. The man is not wanted by Czech police, he added.

Swedish police spokesman Thomas Fuxborg earlier cited information passed on by Interpol from German authorities that the man was born in 1957 in the Czech Republic.

They were waiting for Czech authorities to confirm his identity, which can been proven by fingerprints, Fuxborg said.

Swedish police also learnt that for the past two years the man was homeless and living in the British county of Essex, where he had to report regularly to police, he added.
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