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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Dec 2003 : 22:16:34
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Robert-James said: The last time we talked, you denied the blood sacrifice of Yahushua {aka Jesus}, and being a baptised {former?} believer,
BatKol: Let me clarify this. I do not deny that an Annointed Man (in the Old testament sense)named Yahushua died at the hands of ROME. This Man Yahushua is/was absolutely NOT a.k.a the JESUS FICTION(Eaysous DeChristos)who was created from a composite of various other pre-existing PAGAN GODMEN by the Council of Nicea. This Man Yahushua was not YHWH in the Flesh literally, not literally born from a virgin Mary,and not literally many of the things prescribed to this PAGAN EAYSOUS FICTION created post council of Nicea seated with the early FATHERS of POPERY. This Yahushua did not change one part of the Torah or YHWH's original Salvation Program laid out in Tanakh (Old Testement).....Now, I will be pleased to answer any questions on this above statement and am very interested in having someone reciprocate and let me ask question in return.
Robert-James said: to fall from that standing, only the vile spirit of the talmudists can whisper such thoughts.
BatKol: Respectfully, you are most definately wrong on this. There has recently been a hugh movement of Israelites who claim to be of the House of Yoseph that have "come out" of the post Nicean N.T. who utterly reject and refute the talmud. I was not part of this movement but found out about them after I came to some of these understandings by my own studies.
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2003 : 22:01:52
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Robert-James said: ...ready to find the Way home? May I steer your vessel to the prodigal son story? Let me be your captain for the moment? We all do get weary in the storm of life. The Way home is to find the son within.
BatKol: Yes, I have recently learned that this Sonship message has been around for much, much longer than xtianity and even the Tanack.
Even before Moses received the Torah on Sinai. It gets re-invented in each age and continues to get re-invented. When I finally saw this as Truth, errors and contradictions in the Bible became a non-issue.
I was glad to see this chapter of my Life finally over after so many countless hours of study and "seeking'.
Robert-James said: Paul said, "it pleased Yahuweh, to reveal His Son, in me". The son knows the Way home. But the prodigal son was DEAD through living in a foreign kingdom. The son needs The Resurrection, from the death realm, unto the Life and finally eating of the tree of Life.
BatKol: This "idea" (for lack of a better word) speaks across many cultures. One of the most ancient descriptions of this foreign kingdom is the mind/body. The mind/body does not have Eternal Life because it has a beginning and an end. Carnal mind/body is enmity against Yah (I Am).. The ancient Aryan Brahmins taught a proto-Sonship wherein the Realization that one's identity is not this mind/body (because it is not Eternal)was illustrated in many parables.
Robert-James said: But, and I do say but, one must believe that the Most High can resurrect the dead, literally and figuratively.
BatKol: Since YHWH is Echad (one) and there is no-thing else that is Real except YHWH, it is safe to say that YHWH has no limitations. Especially in this realm of ever changing earth, mind and flesh. "He" (for lack of a better word)scripts everything down to the last hair on one's head, creates the good and the evil, etc in this dimension.. The "game" already been played out and we are just watching the after-image. Even science must begrudgingly admit this in so many words..
Robert-James said: IF,a 'person', does not believe Yahuweh did not literally resurrect Yahushua, then, that person don't have a chance to new life.
BatKol: I believe that the resurrection teachings, just as the teachings of the virgin birth and even the miracles were not literal (you have known this about me for quite sometime now). This is NOT to say that one can not achieve the Melchzidek state wherein there is no birth, no death, no male or female by taking these stories literaly. Others have reached this Melchezidek state before Christ. Enoch for one. Also many others through out history. This Sonship teaching is at the core of most if not all "religions" (religion being the left overs once the inner-teaching outgrew it's seed pod).
It seems there is a point in the Realization where it is irrelevant if something was literal or allegorical. Sometimes placebos get the job done.
Robert-James said: Might we be able to see Yahushua the melchisedec High Priest, as the transmission line, for the Power?
BatKol: I can see this clearly as allegory. Melchezidek, which has no beginning or end (beyond the time/space FICTION) is none other than Now. Now knows nothing of past or future. When I first found out that most of what Yahushua had spoke of had already been taught in much of the same words by the ancient Hindus I freaked out and cried "Paganism" because I was grounded in a 6th BCE Yehudic mindset (Tanakh). What I did not realize was who these ancient Hindus were: Aryan Brahmins. These people had already moved on to "the misty Isles" and built Stonehenge before there ever was a tribe of Dan. When I found this out and learned what they spoke about I gained an insight to both the NT and Tanakh that I had never had.
Robert-James: YHWH is The God of the Living. Yahushua is the Judge of the Living and the DEAD.
BatKol: These "concepts" are also very effective when used as models.
Robert-James: He judges hearts. Yahushua breathed into His disciples. The Breath of Life.
BatKol: Again. excellent models.
Robert-James: I think Paul says it in his letter to the Israelite Romans, that they...must believe that YHWH raised Yahushua from the DEAD. Oh yes, and confess so.
BatKol: As we know Paul was all things to all people. To ones under the Law he came as one under the Law. The Romans had a long line of literalism to their brand of paganism. He may have been speaking just for them. Paul even had been accussed of using deception to which he answered, "what does it matter if I win one to Christ" (or something to that effect).
Robert-James: Yahushua stated that if "you" deny Me before men, I must deny you before the Father.
BatKol: To me this is dripping with far more than the literalism this concept was hung on.
Robert-James: This is where the called out One's live, the ecclesia, and you are here for a visit.
BatKol: I have actually been a member of this forum (under a different NICK) for close to three years now. Joined back when I was living in Burnsville, NC.
Robert-James: Fine...but, if you don't have the Son, you don't have the Father.
BatKol: This as an allegorical model I can agree with and has been around much longer than xtianity.
Robert-James: And so far, we hear that BatKol does not bring the teaching {doctrine} of the Father and the Son. So, I am not to bid you Yah's wealth, {Gods speed}. {Second John} When you "get ahold" of this, you will have the Power to generate your own light, {Light}.
BatKol: yes, it is True that I do not come with the literalism of the council of Nicea. Once the model acheives the purpose of that which one is "to get a hold of" it's job is done. Believe me when I tell you that I have not known more Peace in my Walk as when I finally saw
how pointless it was to argue weather the resurrection, virgin birth, etc. was literal or not. I do not need any blessing from a sentient being in the arena of Yah's wealth. These blessings are between myself and YHWH directly. I am not interested in a "me" that can generate any Light since there is only YHWH Echad. Just as you are not that LEGAL FICTION ROBERT-JAMES, "I Am" not this flesh-bundle of ever-changing moods and beliefs wrapped up in a body "THEY" call STEVE, Steve, or whatever. I have Seen the meaning of the Kingdom which can not be found by observance wherein flesh and blood can not enter in. Even had a taste of it although there was no "me" there.
Robert-James: I am not involved solely in teaching folks how to kill the CAP MAN.
BatKol: it is good to "branch out".. I will tell you that all I have leared about the FICTION so perfectly fits in with the Brahmin understanding that the mind/body is also FICTION (seeing as all flesh is grass and hence not Eternal). It about "knocked me back".
Robert-James: "I knew a young man once, who was already wearing linen. And when the time came, he got afraid when they came to take him for being a follower of Yahushua Messiah. He was so scared, he ran away naked, leaving the linen behind". It is recorded in Mark 14:51-52. I know this young man's name and his destiny. But, I have not the liberty to say anything further.
BatKol: Parables abound!
Check this out:
The Now of Melchezidek
"True Christianity is about the "end of concepts" in that the heirship of Melchezidek, which has no beginning or end - only NOW! -, brings the initiate into the non-dual Realization of Reality, a place (yet not a concept called "place") where no concepts exist.
In the Now of Melchzidek (aka The Psyche of the Risen Christ) the flaming cheribum have already been overcome by the Annointed, making strait the Way to the Tree of Life. There is no eating off the Tree of good and evil in this state. The fruit of the Tree of life is Eternal Now... In the Now of Melchezidek the Kingdom has already arrived but but flesh and blood can not enter into it. Why? because all flesh is Seen as grass which appreas as if a vapour, a fictional phantom. In Melchezidek Now there is no father or mother, no gender, alas- no minds and bodies because these things have beginnings and ends. Why? Because they do not posses eternal Life else they would "do" more than flourish for but a season. These mind-bodies are no longer an Identity in Melchezidek. This concept of mind-body identification is seen as false in the state of Melchizidek Now. The carnal mind does not co-exist with the Christ mind in this state. Even the allegorical return to the Garden, the battle with good and evil and, yes, even your personal Golgotha experiece is seen as an illusion. In the Reality of Now, the past and the future never have, never will and never can exist. They are mere concepts. You were never seperate from God, the whole illusion of duality is seen as an imposible dream. What a joy to be Awake! So this is why I say that true Christianity is about the "end of concepts". Melchezidek, The Mind of Christ, Ein Sof, etc. are titles of concepts which try to convey that which is beyond concepts. Now is eternal, with out beginning or end. Now is uneffected by the concept of "now". In the Now of Melchezidek, these concepts you have just read are Seen as impossible words, taking on the impossible task of trying to conceptualize the undefinable.
Sounds like Sonship to me. |
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Robert-James
Advanced Member
uSA
353 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2003 : 23:07:19
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Very good Steven, and I smile that Father will shortly make all these concepts real with you. Yahushua ate and drank in a body that was touchable...after He was resurrected. This is what the beast fears. For the re-generated sons of El, shall bring heaven to earth. I for many years, lived in the mystical. Father finally gives me and others the power to start manifesting His heaven on earth. Many worldwide are involved in this process. Years ago Wesley Swift, was a lone voice teaching the message of the sons of Seth, without real clarity. One shall be given the white stone. Yoseph's stone was the onyx, which in todays upside down world means black. Could you even imagine that a melchisedec priest manifesting the presence of El-ElYon, would be receiving handouts from the king of sodom? Or asking permission from sodom to travel on the roads? Under a pretend name? How silly. The proof is always in the pudding. All you or anyone, has to do, is prove it. Talk is cheap.
Echad means oneness. The talmudists throw a sloppy curve, which is easily hittable. Yahushua stated that He and His Father were One. 1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1=1
A dollar to a donut, you are living as a creation of the FICTIONAL STATE. I can remember your wife and mine, at passover, when I was put in the dungeon for traveling about without permission from the STATE of sodom, saying, "this is so real". We are required to make all things real. Your turn.
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2003 : 09:42:27
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Robert-James said: Very good Steven, and I smile that Father will shortly make all these concepts real with you.
"Steve": Yes, "He" (for lack of a better word) has made many concepts real (as far as a concept which is only a model can be made real). Stay with me on this and I will find a way to explain what is hard to explain.
Robert-James said: Yahushua ate and drank in a body that was touchable...after He was resurrected.
"Steve" (or should I say Thomas): To accept this literally at face value one must verify the authenticity of the book from which the claim is made from. For example, shall we accept that Yahushua is the "bad shepard" of Zech 13 just because ROME (Nicea) wrote those words into his mouth? From where "I" (for lack of a better word) sit "I" have found a place wherein none of this matters. And I mean none!
Robert-James: Father finally gives me and others the power to start manifesting His heaven on earth. Many worldwide are involved in this process.
"Steve": Here we are back to the details. "I" have not seen anybody as of yet who is not CONTRACTING with some type of FRANCHISE. "I" have not seen anybody as of yet refuse to sully their hands with FRNs or stop making verbal WORK contracts. My "Heart of Hearts" tells me one cannot be engaged in any of the above and Truthfully claim to not have any "MARKS". As for now (and believe me I keep my eyes pealed)I have not found anyone who hates THE BEAST enough to stop CONTRACTING for various UTILITIES or using USURY TICKETS... Sorry. I know you have justifications and rationalzations for these things but this Realization became clear to me a few years ago.... In the midst of pondering all of the above "I" finally realized what Paul was talking about when he said "flesh and blood cannot enter into kingdom". Flesh and blood is not Eternal, so it cannot exist in an Eternal Kingdom. This clearly illustrates what the Aryan Brahmins Realized thousands of years before Yahushua Realized this. There are many more scriptures which point to this.
Robert-James: Years ago Wesley Swift, was a lone voice teaching the message of the sons of Seth, without real clarity.
"Steve": Yes, without real clarity. The term "British" was not penned from the term covenent man. It was created from Brittiany the goddess of sea commerce, to whom the Phoenicians looked to for saftey in their sea trading. Also before there was a tribe of Dan there was the god "Danu" of the Aryan Brahmins (Danube river, etc). The Tuatha De Daanan of the Celts also link back to this Danu.
Robert-James: Could you even imagine that a melchisedec priest manifesting the presence of El-ElYon, would be receiving handouts from the king of sodom? Or asking permission from sodom to travel on the roads? Under a pretend name?
"Steve": Can you imagine a pagan king who is not an Israelite, nor worshiper of YHWH being called Moshiach (see Cyrus)?? How about the crazy notion of actually identifying with a pretend mind/body. Our studies of the FICTION were a huge help in understanding all of this. "It's not me".. how brilliant!
Robert-James: The proof is always in the pudding. All you or anyone, has to do, is prove it. Talk is cheap.
"Steve": Exactly. Rationalizations aside, how can one claim to have no CONTRACTS while still engaging in verbal WORK CONTRACTS measured in USURY NOTES, as well as RESIDENTIAL and INTERNET CONTRACTS. I am waiting for these proofs and as you say, talk is cheap. Sincerely. If it is all a matter of saying, "Hey there is not power line attached to my body and they spelled My name wrong" then that same line of reasoning will work with a DL, SS#, etc. The most basic level of common sense is we are attached to these things if we make use of them. But I am waiting to see the proof of how you get around these THINGS.
Robert-James: Echad means oneness. The talmudists throw a sloppy curve, which is easily hittable. Yahushua stated that He and His Father were One.
"Steve": Yes, with a Stong's one can make that argument. It has to.
But when the Realization hits you that there is only One and the 1's in your multiplication equation are illusions you are still left with the same answer: One. Yahushua knew his body was a FICTION. He came down in sinful flesh. He overcame the flesh identification. As did Odin, Osiris and a host of other who were basically the same story but told well ahead. The gnostics and others who knew the essence of this story laughed when ROME tourchered them for not professing JESUS
literally died and rose from the dead. Why? Because they had full Realization of the true meaning of the Christ story that they themselves wrote. I reject the Catholic Nicean version of the JESUS story. But now, even as "I" write this it seems so irrelevant.
Robert-James: A dollar to a donut, you are living as a creation of the FICTIONAL STATE.
"Steve": I am still waiting for you to explain how one can still partake in FICTIONAL BEHAVIOUR such as verbal WORK CONTRACTS for USURY FRNs (MARKS) and CONTRACTS for POWER and INTERNET. Sincerely. It has to be more than some word game justification. Until this last statement of mine is cleared up and understood I must say that you perhaps need also to wear this accusation. Here's the good news there is no You, YOU or you!!! That is a some serious good news! 
Your turn.
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Manuel
Advanced Member
USA
762 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2003 : 00:04:15
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Greetings In His name Yahshua,
Then there will continue to have intercourse by means of what was, is, and to come.
Father tells Us that having Him in our minds, soul and minds, is The Mark, where we communicate in ways not of this earth. It may sound "weird" to many, but that is not the essence. The essense is His Spirit.
Most of what we have written on these "posts," comes from before, therefore, it is the "test" of time, which we realize here.
We did not "invent" these words, but rather, realize the meaning of life In Him, for they are His words of sound doctrine. As an example, we are like "repeaters," fine tuned for those whom have eyes which see and ears which have ears which hear. All else is irrelevant, as long as the "final out-come" serves His purpose.
That is why His Word, causes so much "friction" to the evil doers. They are not "tuned" to what is rightious. His Truth causes too much "static" to their self seving ways.
Remember when Yahshua said, "Do as they say, but do not do as they do."
In Him, I am,
Manuel |
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David Merrill
Advanced Member
USA
1147 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2003 : 19:04:59
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Not to stir things up; it is neither Yehushuah or Yashuah. It is Yehoshuah, with a slight accent on the "shu" but a clear and distinct "ho", not "hoo". Check Strong's, Young's and Davidson's concordances on this fact. Dr. John D. Price of Temple University in Chatanooga (I think he is now deceased) confirmed my research on this after I read his paper "Yehoshuah, Yashuah or Yahu; What Was the True Name of the Messiah". Something like that.
In his paper, which may still be available, Yahshuah is a Jewish defamation of the Messiah's name and Price cited the Talmud for this conclusion. I checked his citation. Abram became Abraham. Sarai became Sarah. The "h" is significant of approval from God. According to Encyclopedia Judaica a theophoric accent is added to a name by a suffix "yehu" at the end or a "Yeho" prefix at the beginning. The Encyclopedia (under "Name" I think) specifically cites Yehudah (Judah) as an example of a non-theophoric name. Beginning a name with Yehu contains no reference "God has..." or "God is (my)...".
Regards,
David Merrill.
Re: Reply below. That is I Chronicles 7:27 in most Bibles. |
Edited by - David Merrill on 01 Jan 2004 11:45:54 |
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Robert-James
Advanced Member
uSA
353 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2003 : 19:37:19
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Greetings,
1 Chron. 7:26 |
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2004 : 15:16:29
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| Thanks Robert and David for plugging that into the discussion. |
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jstrongjr
New Member
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2004 : 01:07:32
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Greetings in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ.
BatKol, how is, and please indulge me if you will, that Jesus is FICTICIOUS? If Jesus did not rise from the dead, and there is proof that he did, then my Christian faith is in vain. If there is no Christ then there is no hope.
I have not yet read all of your posts but I will do so the Lord willing. My Christian walk started when I was 9 years young and I have had many struggles as I learned to walk in the things of my Lord and Savior.
I have even struggled at times with the issue of my salvation as I have walked away back into sin out of anger. But now I see this post and I wonder why God would make or allow things concerning Him to be so complicated?
I do not agree with your position on Christ.
My hope is in the Lord. IF what you say is true then I have no hope and neither do most that profess Christ.
In Christ, Jess
Jess |
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BatKol
Advanced Member
USA
735 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2004 : 19:32:53
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Jess said: BatKol, how is, and please indulge me if you will, that Jesus is FICTICIOUS? If Jesus did not rise from the dead, and there is proof that he did, then my Christian faith is in vain. If there is no Christ then there is no hope.
BatKol: JESUS is the fictional name atached to the real Man Yehoshuah (thanks R & D for the correction on the spelling). This is my opinion. Check out the council of Nicea.
Jess said: But now I see this post and I wonder why God would make or allow things concerning Him to be so complicated?
BatKol: YHWH allows everything. "He" creates the good and the evil. "He" becomes lies in the prophet's mouths (2 Cron 18:21). "He" created laws by which we could not live (ezekiel). The Rotherham definition of YHWH is "I will be whatever I will to be"... very fitting.
Jess said: If there is no Christ then there is no hope.
BatKol: What do you mean here exactly?
Jess said: I do not agree with your position on Christ.
BatKol: OK |
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Yahushua not AKA JESUS
