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True North
Advanced Member

USA
163 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2003 :  10:17:31  Show Profile
I use Strong's and Young's just not the TWOT. Instead I use Brown, Driver, Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament and Kittle's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (10 volumes). There is also the two volume The Word Study New Testament/The Word study concordance for words in the same family. I use the Encyclopedia Judaica for research and Philip Schaff for history. I'm still ignorant in a lot of areas, just a lot less ignorant than I would be without these tools.

I won't argue rationalization, your's or mine. Evolution just means change. If you don't believe in evolution just look in the mirror. Look at the evolution verses creation thread for my take on evolution. I am not being critical here but a theological cemetery isn't the best place to study science.

The bible is not a history book. The chronology is far from being in order as far as events. The genealogical chronologies also skip generations. To the Hebrew (who just reads and contemplates) it is 10 generations from Adam to Noah. 10 from Noah to Abraham. Again everything is numbers...10 is completion. 4 is earthly completion, 10 + 4 = 14 thus the skip from Jehoram to Uzziah in Mat. 1:17. The chronologies are not intended to give every king but the Western mind has to have them. As long as there is completion, the Hebrew only contemplates.
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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2003 :  19:24:18  Show Profile
Caleb, you may fit in well [email protected] Evolution? We very much know there is such a situation as spiritual evolution. Being changed from glory to glory. How many glories i am not sure of yet.
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Shiloh
Senior Member

USA
69 Posts

Posted - 11 Feb 2003 :  09:11:25  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by True North

The Hebrew language just didn't have the need for scientific terminology. "Science" really didn't get a good start until the 16th century.



Let us take a serious look at science and the bible to see how good the record of science vs. the bible is.

SCIENCE: Book of the Bible PRIOR TO 16th CENTURY


HYDROLOGY

Hydrologic Cycle Ecclesiastes 1:7; Isaiah 55:10
evaporation Psalm 135:7; Jeremiah 10:13
condensation Nuclei Proverbs 8:26
condensation Job 26:8; 37;11,16
Precipitation Job 36:26-28
run-off Job 28:10
Oceanic Resevoir Psalm 33:7
Snow Job 38:22; Psalm 147:16
Hydrologic Balance Job 28:24-26
Spings in the sea Job 38:16

Geology

Principle of Isostasy Isaiah 40:12; Psalm 104:5-9
Shape of the Earth Isaiah 40:22; Job 26:10; Psalm 103:12
Rotation of the Earth Job 38:12,14
Gravitation Job 26:7; 38:6
Rock Erosion Job 14:18,19
Glacial Period Job 38:29,30
Uniformitarianism II Peter 3:4
Dinosaurs (Dragons) Job 40&41

Astronomy

Size of the Universe Job 11:7-9; 22:12; Isaiah 55:9;
Jeremiah 31:37
Number of the Stars Genesis 22:17; Jeremiah 33:22

Uniqueness of Each Star I Corinthians 15:41

Precision of Orbits Jeremiah 31:35,36


Meterology


Circulation of
Atmosphere Ecclesiastes 1:6

Protective Effect
of Atmosphere Isaiah 40:22

Oceanic origin of Rain Ecclesiastes 1:7

Relation of Electricity
to Rain Job 28:26; Jeremiah 10:13

Fluid Dynamics Job 28:25


Biology

blood circulation Leviticus 17:11

Psychotherapy Proverbs 16:24; 17:22

Biogenesis and Stabilty Genesis 1:11,21,25

Uniqueness of Man Genesis 1:26

Chemical Nature of Flesh Genesis 1:11,24-2:7; 3:19

"Cave-men" Job 12:23-25; 30:3-8


Physics

Mass-Energy Equivalence Colossians 1:17; Hebrews 1:3

Source of Energy
for Earth Psalm 19:6

Atomic disintergration II Peter 3:10

electical transformation
of information Job 38:35

Television Revelation 11:9-11

Rapid Transportation Daniel 12:4

micro-chip Revelation 13:16



This is only a small sampling of all the science that is correct in the Bible. True science is still trying to catch up with the Bible.
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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2003 :  09:49:55  Show Profile
One choice we all need to make without arguement is: The KJV says time begins at 4004 b.c. Bishop Unger figured the KJV correctly as printed. Anyone can do the work themselves. Use the first ten fathers and the year they produced their firstborn son. After {4004} 130 years Adam begat Seth, and so on to Noah.

The septaugint has different dates for begating the sons. You do the homework and Adam's 'time' is 5407 b.c. One is wrong. They both can not be right. Paul quotes from the septaugint, word for word regarding psalm 40 in the letter to the hebrews. Tis insane to think he could quote from the KJV. So what is it? 5407 b.c. or 4004 b.c.? By the Way, the names of the first ten fathers of Adam's line give a beautiful message. The extra 1403 years, to me, are needed if one uses archaeology and its findings as helps.
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Shiloh
Senior Member

USA
69 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2003 :  13:12:55  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Robert-James

Shiloh, get off the soap box and politely answer who the wicked one is, OK? No offense intended, save your pendantic preaching for the lost.



John2:7 Little children, let no man deceive you : he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.


The "Wicked" is he that sins. Is that you? There in only one that is Good. We are not him, but made righteous through him.

Edited by - Shiloh on 12 Feb 2003 13:21:31
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Shiloh
Senior Member

USA
69 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2003 :  13:19:42  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Robert-James

Shiloh, get off the soap box and politely answer who the wicked one is, OK? No offense intended, save your pendantic preaching for the lost.




John 2:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil , and his brotherís righteous

Who was the wicked one? The Devil. Note the word "of"... This means Cain is not the wicked one, but acting in an evil way "of" the devil. It was his WORKS that made him evil, just as yours works make you evil (and "of" the devil), and mine make me evil (and "of" the devil). When we take the Bible at it's word... we find we need to be bought back from the "king of this world" (Possession of the Devil) so that we might be in the family of the "KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS...Yeshua (Jesus)!



Edited by - Shiloh on 12 Feb 2003 13:25:41
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Robert-James
Advanced Member

uSA
353 Posts

Posted - 12 Feb 2003 :  15:22:32  Show Profile
Shiloh, do you have access to Bullingers....The Companion Bible? Appendex 104.vii explains this "of" we are speaking of concerning Cain. It {ek in greek} speaks of; time, place, ORIGIN. It means ...out from. we must move on from the childish 'talking snake' and eating an apple thoughts. Luke 3rd ch. Yahushua's physical descent......every father-son connection is OF [ek}....{the son is an interpolation not in the original}. Which was OF Jesse, which was OF Obed, which was OF Boaz, which was OF Salmon. And you change the meaning when it comes to Cain??? Cain had a literal father and it was not Adam. Cain does the work of his father, just as Yahushua said. My Father has always been YHWH, I just did not know about it for years, and lived in a strangers house! Noah was perfect in his generations. Look up generations. Thought this might help. Psalm 82 and Yahushua quoted this, "all of you are elohim, but you shall die AS men". They killed Yahushua because of this statement of Truth. The secret is out, believe it or not, your decision time has come.
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True North
Advanced Member

USA
163 Posts

Posted - 14 Feb 2003 :  07:52:29  Show Profile
Off topic questions to consider in trying to move away from the sophomoric idea of a big old oak tree that for some reason has red apples growing on it in the big ol' garden.

Where is the first case of the shedding of blood in Torah?

Where is Torah first instituted in the Torah (bible)?

How did the sons of G-d come before G-d as recorded in the book of Job?

Why were Cain and Abel presenting offerings to G-d?

How come one offering was acceptable and the other not?



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Manuel
Advanced Member

USA
762 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2003 :  20:49:52  Show Profile
Brothers,
Cain was of that evil one, the devil, satan, the adversary. When Eve followed that serpent, her seducer, that evil one, which could not accept the authority of God to follow man, before Eve, tempted Eve and Eve bore a child to that evil one Samuel, which that Jezebel "hides behind."
Many are fooled to notice her, for she has also seduced many to not "seeth her."

A Dios,
Manuel
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