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Caleb
Advanced Member

Philippines
209 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2003 :  13:31:47  Show Profile
Dear PopeSquasher,

I am presently in the heat of new battles, but I can tell you that some things definitely work. The trouble is discerning the truth from the theories. As StandingComplete points out, the key here is recognizing the genuine article. Copyrighting your name sounds good at first, but it is really using man's law to try and protect you from more of man's law. This is the flaw with all UCC-based ideas. But sprinkled among those are principles of true Law that are very helpful.

The ALL CAPS NAME is something I can personally vouch works. It gets the judge squirming without fail. I am presently navigating the bag of tricks they use to hide the reality that their ENTIRE system of "LAW" is really fiction. The ALL CAPS are notice that you are standing as a fictional PERSON in a fictional COURT before a fictional JUDGE. With that notice plastered literally everywhere in a modern court the question becomes, how should we respond? This is the tough part. It is all really a test to see if we can discern the true and speak only truth. I am still far from consistent in my own witness when it comes to this. Yet I learn with each new encounter, and it is the standing for truth, not the "winning" in COURT, that our Father cares about.

This is all a test for our benefit. The point is not to "regain" lost freedoms, for there is no fixing Babylon. The point is to "come out" just as you said, and this especially includes not obeying "laws" contrary to the Law of our Creator. Scripture already tells us there is a cost to be paid. We can be grateful that today that cost does not include being thrown to lions or burned at the stake.

Psalm42, we long to fellowship with like-minded believers here in New Zealand, and hope to get to know you soon.
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2003 :  17:33:32  Show Profile
Are these people nuts or what? By Teamlaw.org

UCC Myth

First, please note, the Uniform Commercial Code (U.C.C.) has absolutely no application in any federal venue. It was crafted by Corp. US and suggested as a system that the Corp. States could use to unify their commercial relations. The states adopted it universally. It still has no relation to the feds at all. The alleged “U.C.C. 1 Form” process is allegedly applied to the alleged Strawman, which again does not exist. This whole argument was created because the Strawman theologians could not prove their specious theory so they invented this ruse as a method of proving the allegation. The foundational problem of this theory is that to prove it you have to be in a federal venue and the U.C.C. Has no application in the federal venue. Further, filing paperwork in a state venue according to the U.C.C. alleging a challenge that can only be levied against the feds and due to its nature would not require a reply. If you were to attempt to compel the matter in court (your only real remedy) that case could only be heard in a federal court and if it were filed there would be considered frivolous, however the fraudulent nature, but that does not mean that they could not charge you with fraud and with legal expenses and respective court costs if you were to attempt to waste their court's time with such a frivolous filing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


The feds have no relation with the UCC is like saying the feds have no relation to the states! Is that nuts or what?

Edited by - Livefree on 07 Nov 2003 17:49:39
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Lewish
Advanced Member

uSA
496 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2003 :  19:32:00  Show Profile
Well Livefree,

If I follow what you are saying, and I believe it to be that the UCC is federal law, then why don't you tell these nuts to try looking up Public Law 88-243?

Or maybe, they don't want to know the truth. Maybe they would just rather argue. Seems to be a lot of people out there in that mode.

Peace to all,

Lewis
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PopeSquasher
Senior Member

USA
54 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2003 :  13:12:17  Show Profile
Hello, Caleb!

I'm not sure I follow what you are saying or what your point is. All I know is that all who seek to live Godly (obey the Fathers laws) in Yahushua Messiah shall be persecuted. If we obey the truth, we are contrary to this world- mortal enemies to those who serve Satan- and they will seek to destroy us, and our only hope is in Gods mercy, providence and protection.

True, we can occassionally find loopholes and sometimes use their own confusion against them- but such tactics require much study and investment of time, and are ultimately dependent on the whim of some judge. True, it is good to try and avail ourselves of anything that may be of help, when we need it- but ultimately, if we seek freedom in loopholes and spending half of our time studying mans perverted laws, and our freedom rests in the case (upper or lower) of a letter on a page, all we are going to end up serving Babylon, more so than evading it.

Blessings, my friend.

Rich
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2003 :  14:10:04  Show Profile
"and our freedom rests in the case (upper or lower) of a letter on a page, all we are going to end up serving Babylon, more so than evading it."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I suppose it's better than doing nothing about it.
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2003 :  16:59:34  Show Profile
PopeSquasher wrote:

"If we obey the truth... we are mortal enemies to those who serve Satan and they will seek to destroy us".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

So seeking the truth makes us mortal enemies? Let me tell you what God is to me. God is a challenge. It means you cannot be satisfied with yourself; something higher than you is possible. A higher state, an absolute state of consciousness is possible. That’s what God means.

If God is, then he is a challenge. If God is not, then you can remain whatsoever you are; there is no challenge to life.

A person who is afraid of challenges, risks dangers, of changing himself, of mutation, will always deny that there is a God. The denial is his; the denial shows something about him, not about God.
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2003 :  17:20:28  Show Profile
Truth, by Osho

Truth is beyond structure. It comes only when you are in an unstructured state of consciousness. It comes only when there is no expectations of it, no preparation for it, because all preparation is expectation. Truth comes unawares, truth comes as a surprise. You cannot manage and manufacture it; it comes when it comes.

There is no path to truth. This is one of the most fundamental things to understand. If you are searching for truth, all paths will lead you astray, because following a path means you have already decided what truth is. You have decided the direction, the dimension, you have decided how to approach it, what discipline to follow, what doctrine to adopt. Your destination will just be a projection of your own mind. It will be just your own mind playing a game with itself. There is no way to truth, because the mind is the barrier and it is the mind that creates the way. The mind has to go. The mind has to cease for truth to be.

Truth is not a discipline either, because truth is freedom. Truth is a bird on a wing, not a bird in a cage. The cage may be of gold, may be studded with diamonds, but a cage is a cage and it cannot contain freedom. Truth can never be a prisoner, its intrinsic quality is freedom, so only those who are capable of being free will reach it.

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PopeSquasher
Senior Member

USA
54 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2003 :  17:57:57  Show Profile
LiveFree,

I think you misunderstood what I am trying to say.

I am merely saying that we, who obey the truth, are counted as the enemies of the children of this world.

Proverbs 28:4 " They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them."

And this is inevitable- We might use legal loopholes and rhetoric to evade the consequences of what they try and do to us- and if that works to our advantage (and we have sufficient knowledge to use it)fine- but what I am saying is that persecution is inevitable- as opposed to the ideas of some teachers I have heard, wjho try and sell the idea that if we just follow their system; buy their course; study the laws of men, we can avoid all consequences that the citizens of this dark world will bring against us. But that just is not so.

\I'm not sure that I fully understand you, in you latter post- but I believe Yahushua Messiah IS the truth and the way- He is the Word of God, and His word is truth, and He is the author of freedom, and his Law establishes and preserves freedom.

Rich
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Caleb
Advanced Member

Philippines
209 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2003 :  21:20:21  Show Profile
Dear Brother Rich,

You are correct about being persecuted. You are also right that freedom does not come down to how letters appear on a piece of paper. The ALL CAPS letters are merely notice that we are dealing in the fictional. So when the JUDGE tells you "the LAW says ...", you know he is not speaking about Law at all. He is discussing fiction and is testing us to see if we can distinguish it from the real. Few can.

God's Law is the real, and is the only source of anything worthy of being called "Law." Anything that contradicts it is fictional. The strange part is, thanks to a thousand years of solid Christian tradition, all Law in the former British Empire still rests on the precedent of God's Law. Thus, even their fictional LAW must be written so it does not contradict God's Law. When we stand firm on God's Law we are not transgressing their fictional LAW either, no matter how hard they try to persuade us otherwise.

So the test is, can we recognize the real and true amongst a world built on fictions. To most, the POLICE car with those flashing lights looks and feels "real." Yet it is a fiction, and if we can treat the fictional as fictional, we will pass the test. I sat across from a JUDGE as she told me, "Unless you admit to being the PERSON on this charge sheet, I can't do anything." I had declared the truth in her fictional COURT, and it tied her hands. This was a small test. They threw a harder test at me and I failed. I will be tested again.

This entire life is a test of whether we can recognize the real. People pursue wealth because that seems real to them, yet Yahshua told us to lay up treasure in heaven. People strive to save their life when Yahshua said it is only those who lose it for His sake that will save it. Just like modern COURTS, those things that look real to us are actually the fiction. They have no eternal value. Standing before a fictional JUDGE in this world is just practice for the day we stand before the True Judge. Get all the practice you can, because you only get one chance to get it right on that day.
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2003 :  21:54:47  Show Profile
I am merely saying that we, who obey the truth, are counted as the enemies of the children of this world.

Proverbs 28:4 " They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So what is the meaning of the proverb? Is it a warning that when we obey the truth we will be regarded as enemies of the children of the world? Does it means to accept the fact that there is evil in the world?


"I'm not sure that I fully understand you, in you latter post- but I believe Yahushua Messiah IS the truth and the way- He is the Word of God, and His word is truth, and He is the author of freedom, and his Law establishes and preserves freedom."
~~~~~~~~~

So you believe the only path to truth is Yahushau Messiah, The Word of God? And what is the "Word" of God? Is it only good things, or does it include all that is evil?
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PopeSquasher
Senior Member

USA
54 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2003 :  22:23:23  Show Profile
Hello Bro Caleb!

I appreciate your explanation above, and thank you!

I don't fully understand or agree with what you are saying though. Mans laws do contradict Gods' laws. Mans laws even contradict mans laws. Lets consider the following scenario: In the US., we are supposed to have the right to keep and bare arms. Yet, in many places, such as New York City, one simply does not have this right. If you're an innoccent law-abiding citizen, and are caught there with a gun, you will gto to jail. The quoting of the constitution will do no good. Making a fuss about your names being in capitol letters will do no good. If you break their perverted laws, even if the law is unconstitutional, you will be hauled away. Even if you should win in court, you're going to be held and deprived of your liberty, and have to occupy a very large part of your life fighting the charges and a lengthly jail term.
Now, maybe in a smaller case, like the drivers license scenario, the judge would merely think you insane, and since the "crime" is of small consequence, the matter is dispensed with eventually. This would not be the case with more substantial criminal charges. And even if it were, can we take comfort in knowing that our life and liberty depends on whether we take a toothpick out our mouth or tie our shoes a certain way? -and if we miss one slight beat in this coded conduct, we lose- and might have 20 years to think about why we lost (behind bars) and say "Ya know, It's my own fault, I shouldn't've crossed that "t"!"?
By resorting to such reasoning as a defense, we are not in a commanding position, with the backing of law- instead, we are in a position that may or may not work- we may seize upon some technicality that may work for the moment, once- or may not, depending on some little trivial thing that we might not even be aware of- but we are by no means in a position of strength with the law- we are just taking chances, playing a game- and maybe we'll win one here and there.

I am certainly glad that you did win one, and had a measure of success- but i'll bet you won't be driving too confidently downtown anytime soon- and if you do, I'd bet things would not go as well for you the second time around.

Just by the fact that they can haul us off to jail and interupt our lives, and question our sanity, is proof that they've won the war, even if we win an occassional battle.

Until you can drive around with impugnity and with out fear and without looking over yuour shoulder....they've won.

They have jurisdiction over us, and any wins we get are either devine intervention or sometimes human whim.

I'm curious, do you now drive freely everywhere? (Believe me, the second time, it isn't going to go so well!)

Anywho.....I sure admire what you are doing....just be careful, as I don't think you are on solid ground, and years of your life are not things to gamble with.

Now I do agree, that if we fall into their jurisdiction and control, it is good to try whatever to escape their legal clutches- but I do believe it is far safer and more reasonable to avoid their jurisdiction and clutches, rather than thinking that we are safe, and then having to try and figure out and manipulate their crazy system after it has snared us.

The jails are filled with people who are in them for keeping Gods laws- for spanking theiur children; for ruling their homes; for exercising dominion over their own property; for ingesting or possessing substances that God never declared unlawful- and the streets are full of murderers and child molesters.

It just appears to me, that "their sons" are free, and the citizens of the heavenly Kingdom are burdened. And these things are not because someone failed to notice that their name was in capitol letters- tjhis is because this is the unjust modus-operandi of Babylon.

And, now, I say this not to be critical of you in any way- but just to point something out: Speaking of the test of following Gods laws vs. mans laws- have they not rather tricked you into playing their game? They read a name on a paper, and ask if that name refers to you- and you do not acknowledge that it does. It would seem to me, that they got you playing their own game now (not that there's anything wrong with what you did)-they have you operating by their principles now, of technicalities and rhetoric- and not of justice and truth.

Anyway....my heart goes out to you for what you suffered- and I hope the day will come when we can meet in a place of safety and peace- whether before or at the Kingdom! Until then, we are just pawns of Babylons game. It's very comforting to know though, that there are people like yourself still on this planet, who are living the truth!

And I still cannot recall the pirates' name from Atlas Shrugged!

Rich

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PopeSquasher
Senior Member

USA
54 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2003 :  22:47:07  Show Profile
Hello, LiveFree,

>>>>So what is the meaning of the proverb? Is it a warning that when we obey the truth we will be regarded as enemies of the children of the world?<<<<<

Perhaps- but ultimately, it shows the dichotomy between the two sides- and that the forces which are contrary to us go much deeper than capitol letters and toothpicks. The rift is devided along the lines of Obeying Gods Law vs. lawlessness/mans laws- we are dealing with two oppossites- it's more a matter of cats and dogs...as opposed to dogs and fleas.

>>>>Does it means to accept the fact that there is evil in the world?<<<<<
To accept the fact: Yes. To accept the evil: No. But realize what our enemies are fighting with and for.

>>>So you believe the only path to truth is Yahushau Messiah, The Word of God?<<<<

Yes.

>>>>Is it only good things, or does it include all that is evil?<<<<

Truth makes manifest the good and the evil. The way of truth is the way of cjhoosing the good and rejecting the evil.

I still do not see where you are going with this or what relevance it has to what we are discussing. Isn't this forum about the truth? Is it not common knowledge that the world at large is not pursuing the truth?

Rich







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PopeSquasher
Senior Member

USA
54 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2003 :  23:32:48  Show Profile
Ragnar Danneskjold! ...just in case anyone else was curious. (Thank you Yahoo.com!)
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Caleb
Advanced Member

Philippines
209 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2003 :  01:53:22  Show Profile
Dear Brother Rich,

Most would place the IRS at the top of feared government agencies, and plenty of people spend years behind bars courtesy of them. Now read the following example of a man dragged into court by the IRS who knew how to stand on Law:

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/irs.html

He was not playing games. He simply understood how things really worked. He won not by accident or whim, but because he stood on Law. You speak of things "not working" as if you have proven that they don't. Rather than dwell on the mistakes you or others have made, why not learn from those whose success is not accidental. Do you really believe a judge likes to lose control of her courtroom? Was the judge in my case just feeling nice that day, and so let me run the show? Or was I on to something deeper when I had her admitting to all in court that she could not do anything unless I confessed to being someone I was not?

They did drag me into court a second time, and I did not fare as well. However, I learned more from that experience than I did from when I "won." I cannot guarantee it, but I believe I will prevail in round three. Then the local cops will leave me alone, for the story will be well known in this small community. If the charges were guns instead of traffic, the application of Law would be the same. Only the stakes would be higher. Traffic is the perfect high-visibility, low-stakes "law" with which to practice. Then, by the time it really matters, you know what you are doing.

Man's law only contradicts God's law in the way it is implemented. As written, there is no contradiction. You have a bit to learn before you can understand why this is. Instead of announcing that "nothing works," spend time learning enough to discern why things do or do not work. In most cases you gave away your freedoms willingly. Once you learn why, you can begin to take them back. Needless to say, the usurpers do not want you doing this and will not make it easy for you. But Father has a higher purpose in all this anyway, as I explained earlier, so do not fear the difficulty. Just get started.
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Livefree
Advanced Member

USA
270 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2003 :  02:07:43  Show Profile
<<<<Truth makes manifest the good and the evil. The way of truth is the way of choosing the good and rejecting the evil.>>>>

To me, the way of the truth is the way of acceptance--, acceptance of the way people are and aren't, acceptance of both good and evil.
I'm not sure what you mean by choosing the good and "rejecting" evil. Jesus has said, "Resist not Evil", that is, Evil should not be resisted, because resistance is the only evil, the only sin. When you resist something it means you are separating yourself from the whole, you are trying to become an island, separate, divided--you are condemning, judging, saying this is not right, not so. Resistance means you have taken a position of judgment.


<<<<Is it not common knowledge that the world at large is not pursuing the truth?>>>>>>>>>>

More like denial of the truth..."resisting" the truth.


Edited by - Livefree on 09 Nov 2003 02:09:40
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