| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| artsfree |
Posted - 20 Jul 2005 : 21:49:12
The scriptures tell us about forgiveness but do we understand why we must forgive those who harm us? We read of 70 times 7 , We are informed not to judge. Is this to reward the perpetrator of our injuries? Is it to increase our suffering? Is our creator so cruel as to punish us so unjustly? Nothing obviously appears of benefit to us by this transaction of forgiveness. It appears a "one way street" for they not only "win" but we are to reward them by "forgiving" as well? So, to many of us, not to forgive is prudent, wise, self evident, rewarding and protective of ourselves and our families. Some of us plan the downfall of this evil person/ thing that has harmed us. It returns some portion of control back to us maybe even a sense of accomplishment. It settles the "score". To some, revenge is everything and is enshrined as a part of their culture. Indeed whole countries and peoples are fighting wars over past "injustices" and "grievances"
Having experienced many of the above (in thought and feeling) myself and having risen above this trap then I will tell you what I might say to my injurer and why I choose forgiveness.
I refuse to spend my every waking thought on anger and hatred towards you.
I refuse to be dictated to by your actions.(I am me and not your puppet)
I refuse to treat you any more or less than anyone else.
I refuse to dictate or hinder you in your free choice for you have the right to choose wrong or right.
I refuse to deny my love to you.
I refuse to lose my spirituality and will share it with you.
I refuse to waste my productivity on your intrigues.
I refuse to accept your offer of a mental illness.
I refuse to deny you a choice of reconciliation.
I refuse to deny you my honest council when requested by you.
I refuse to avoid you in public places.
I refuse to teach hatred about you by spreading "the story".
I refuse to not be of sevice to you, my community and others.
I refuse to subvert my creator's judgements upon myself or you.
I refuse to falsely assume the role of god in acting "upon" you.
I refuse to accept that you are not just as important as I am.
Perhaps one day you will learn that you can be my friend and perhaps I will learn another valuable lesson in life.
Im talking about turning a "stumbling block" into a "stepping stone" |
| 11 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Manuel |
Posted - 04 Aug 2005 : 01:47:10
Greetings again to all,
I once heard a simple and soft spoken message of peace by a good friend which revealed itself quite suddenly, and to the fortune of patience, and restriction of ego, kept me from falling deeper unto the trap. The message was simply, "When people plan evil in their hearts, they go blind and make mistakes... but be aware... do not fight evil with evil, for if so, you will be part of evil itself."
So I thought I would place the following writting for you all, and and myself, to digest, and pray that it too reminds us during times of turmoil:
from:
http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/VIIIa/VIIIa_2_3.htm
The Sufi Message of Hazrat Inayat Khan
Volume VIIIa
Sufi Teachings
RESIST NOT EVIL
OFTEN ONE wonders at the phrase in the Bible, 'Resist not evil', and it is not always given the right interpretation. To interpret it one should first explain what evil means. Is there any particular action or thing which one can point out as being evil? No doubt man is always apt to do so, but nothing can be evil according to a fixed principle. Then what is it? It is something which is devoid of harmony, it is something which lacks beauty and love, and above all it is something which does not fit into the accommodation of life. What fits into the accommodation that life offers cannot be evil.
Evil may be likened to fire. The nature of fire is to destroy everything that lies in its path, but although the power of evil is as great as the power of fire, yet evil is also as weak as fire. For as fire does not endure, so evil does not last. As fire destroys itself, so evil is its own destruction. Why is it said, do not resist evil? Because resistance gives life to evil; non-resistance lets it burn itself out. In the form of anger, passion, greed, or stubbornness one sees evil, and also in the form of deceit and treachery. But the root of evil is always one and the same: selfishness. In one person the evil is perhaps manifest on the surface, in another person it is hidden in the depths of the heart.
There is a saying in the East, 'Do not invoke the name of Satan, or else he will rise from his grave'. An inconsiderate or thoughtless person often falls into the error of awakening that devil even if he is asleep, for he does not know the music of life. In order to live in the world one should become a musician of life. Every person therein is a note; and when one feels that way, then one has an instrument in one's hand. The whole world is like an orchestra by which a symphony is to be played.
Even in small things one can observe the same law. Very often the greatest trouble that one has in life is not because of the difficulties others make, but because of one's own lack of comprehension of human nature. If one knew human nature one would realize that the first and the last lesson to learn is not to resist evil. For resistance becomes fuel to the fire. If we say to someone, 'Do not do that', if we ask someone, 'Why did you do it?' if we re-reproach someone, saying, 'You have done such and such a thing', in all these ways we only make the evil stronger, we only fix him firmer in his fault.
Everyone in this world can be a kind of teacher, but not a real teacher, for a real teacher is the one who always teaches himself; and the more he teaches himself, the more he realizes that there is so much to be learnt that a whole lifetime would not be enough. And the more one learns the more one overlooks the evil in others. It does not mean that the evil is greater or less in others, it only means that one has realized that the enemy which one saw in others is really in oneself. The worst enemy one was faced with in outer life one finds to be in one's own heart. It makes one feel humiliated, but it teaches the true lesson: of finding in oneself the same element which one wished to resist in another.
Life is a place where it is necessary to move gently. Whether it be in thought, speech, or action, the rhythm must be controlled; the law of harmony must be observed in all that one does. One should know that even walking barefoot on thorns will not make one free from accusation: the thorns will accuse one of having trampled upon them. If living in this world is as delicate as that, can anyone say he has gained sufficient wisdom? Or can anyone think he can afford to live in this world without giving a thought to this problem?
I was once asked how anyone at the head of a business or institution could possibly keep to the rule of not resisting evil. I said that I had seen people at the head of certain factories who had won the hearts of everyone working there, while there were other directors against whom every worker in the factory was speaking. It may be that the latter made a greater profit than the former, yet in the end they would find the gain of the former to be more enduring than their own. The ways of wisdom and tenderness cannot be made into a restricted principle for people to follow. A brush can never take the place of a knife, and therefore we all have to use every method and activity according to the circumstances. Nevertheless, the thought of not resisting evil should always be in the background.
The problem of evil is great. Many cannot bear even to hear it mentioned, although they are faced with it every moment of their lives, and to leave this problem unsolved does not help. Everyone is ready to judge, to observe, or to take notice of the evil in another, not realizing that sometimes the surface of a thing is quite different from its depth. Perhaps that which seems evil has something good underneath; or what appears good may contain a spark of evil. And by what standard can we determine evil and good, and who can judge the evil and good of anyone else? If one can judge at all, it is one's own evil and good. No one except God has the power to judge another. The sense of justice that is given to man is in order that he may judge his own actions; it is for this purpose that the sense of justice has been given to him.
When we look at life we shall see that it is nothing but a struggle both individually and collectively. And it seems that if there is anything worthwhile in this life it is that which is other than this struggle, the give and take of kindness and love, and the doing of any action of selflessness. However well qualified a person may be in the things of the world, his qualifications reach only to a certain point; they do not go beyond it. But what is really required is qualification in the understanding of life, the understanding of the law which is working behind it. It is this qualification alone which will diminish man's continual struggle, for it will give him less to resist. It will make him more tolerant of the natural condition of human beings. As soon as one realizes that one cannot expect from anyone something of which he is not capable, one becomes tolerant.
The difficulty is that everyone demands more of another person in the way of thought and consideration, of kindness and love, than he does of himself. Man wants more justice and fairness on the part of another than he is himself prepared to give; and his standard may be so high that another person cannot keep up to it, which in turn makes him disappointed. What generally happens is that one does not just remain quiet after being disappointed but one resists, and so the struggle of life continues. One should not expect the pear-tree to bear roses, nor the rose-bush to produce jasmine. Every person is like a certain plant, but not the same plant. We may be fond of roses, but every plant does not bear roses; if we want roses we should seek only the plant on which roses grow, and we must not be disappointed if what we find is not the rose plant. In this way we can correct our own deception. When people say that someone is bad it really means that the surface has become bad. The depth cannot be bad, however bad a person may seem. For goodness is life itself; and a person who would be all bad could not live. The very fact that he is living shows that there is a spark of goodness in him. Besides just as there are various objects so there are various persons; some show softness outside, hardness inside; some show hardness outside and softness inside; some are very good in the depth and evil on the surface; and some are evil on the surface and good in the depth, for there are as many different varieties as there are souls.
What education, what point of view, what attitude in life is the best and will give the greatest happiness? It is the attitude of overlooking evil instead of resisting it. There are three ways of living one's life, which can be compared with struggling in the sea whose waves are rising and falling all the time. The first will struggle as long as life will permit; but the rising and the falling of the waves in the sea continue for ever and ever, and in the end he will be drowned. And so it is with man. Man struggling on, intoxicated by his struggle, will go on as long as his energy will permit it. In this struggle he may seem powerful, he may seem to have conquered others, he may seem to have done greater things than others, but what does it amount to? In the end he will be drowned. But there is another person who knows how to move smoothly through the water, and he understands the rhythm of moving his arms and legs; he swims with the rising and falling of the waves. He is not struggling. This man may hope to arrive at the port if it is near. If his ideal is not too far distant, then he is the one to fulfill it. And the third person is the one who walks on the water. It is this which is the meaning of Christ's walking upon the waters.
Life is just like waves, it is making its way continually. The one who allows himself to be disturbed by it will be more and more disturbed every day; the one who does not take any notice of it will keep inwardly serene. The one who sees all things and yet rises above them is the one who will walk over the sea. No one can reach the highest summits of life, of wisdom, in a moment: even a whole lifetime is too short. Yet hope is necessary, for the one who hopes and sees the possibilities climbs towards the summit, but the one who has no hope has no legs to ascend the hill of wisdom, the summit of which is the desired goal.
|
| Manuel |
Posted - 02 Aug 2005 : 18:15:54
quote from artsfree:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I didnt do anything wrong by the way I was helping a person who I have helped for over 20 years. They have a mental illness. I was restraining them from injuring someone and they then claimed that I assaulted them and went to the "system". I am still helping this person and I dont worry about forgiving them anymore BECAUSE IT'S OVER 70 TIMES SEVEN THAT I HAVE DONE SO ALREADY!!!..LOL"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Revealing situation artsfree which you brought up unto the surface.
I too stood up unto that situation during many a repeated actions with much prayer, patience and endurance, but most awakening was the fact that over those many disturbing repetitious ordeals, Father, my Comforter, helped me peel the many rotten fruits to see the worms thriving on to the slimy core.
During my rapture from those poison fruits, the corrupt, which you knowingly see as getting their "power" from the corruptable, transferred my then social CORPORATE CONTRACTS and assigned them to the ill I was trying to help.
Step by malicious step, they transferred almost ninehundred FRN's of the thirteen hundred FRN's, and cancelled a "private disability" which was another fifteen hundred FRN's and still considered the "private disability" as a source of "income," therefore maliciously tagging it along as an "ability to pay."
That was then, and now, even though I thank Father for helping me see, I still see and hear that even that past "hush money" never kept the corrupt ones and their corruptables from becoming free. Yet, Father, My Savior,
keeps me on an even keel during many rough and stormy weather, and may His Grace and Love continue, as well as to those who transgressed against me, until their ends justify their means.
I am, as I stand,
Manuel
|
| artsfree |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 22:33:47
quote:
Originally posted by Mark
Originally posted by artsfree:
quote:
Be wary of hasty and false judgement as God's eternal laws require that the punishment that a false accuser wished to impose upon the innocent is to be visited upon the false accuser for punishment (common, ancient and scriptural Law.)
Also...
quote:
Namely would "your" Christ really not have forgiven the moneychangers and then gone onto the cross to carry all their "sins" upon himself and sacrifice his life?
...
I do not recognise or know "your" non forgiving Christ
You have obviously put words in my mouth which I did not say, and falsely judged me of having a non forgiving Christ.
Who ever you are, artsfree? I forgive you.
I’ll say it again, I’m sure (as in: I know!) Christ forgave the money changers, as we are also commanded to forgive those who trespassed against us. But forgiveness does not mean that we are to allow evil, if at all possible, to prevail against our selves or anyone else.
I’m not hateful or revengeful, but I do know what is just, after all, I am created in His image. And, I can judge (though, only in the spirit of truth).
Peace, Mark
And… I’m sure Christ forgave the money-changers, before he physically threw them out of the temple.
Peace, Mark
Dear Mark.Thanks for your correction of the record.
As I have injured you I publically apologise. To injure was not my intent.
To remove any impression of an unforgiving Christ was my intent.
What then is the true context of these words. your posting?
If it was your intention to show the prevention and cessation of evil by Christ's actions then that was not the theme of my posting which is forgiveness.
I answered in the context of the theme and I regret any misunderstanding in our communcations.
I empathise with your pain and hurt and now recognize your explanation of your original reply to be the prevention of evil upon ourselves and loved ones.
The prevention of evil upon us was not dismissed in my original posting. If you see my replies I think you should see that I have not dismissed that factor and have expanded on the point.
I welcome your constructive criticism and trust that you will continue to provide me with your further insight and input on this topic.
I thank you for your forgiveness and the friendship in which it is given; I assure you it is mutual. My kindest regards.
|
| Mark |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 21:02:51
Originally posted by artsfree:quote:
Be wary of hasty and false judgement as God's eternal laws require that the punishment that a false accuser wished to impose upon the innocent is to be visited upon the false accuser for punishment (common, ancient and scriptural Law.)
Also...quote:
Namely would "your" Christ really not have forgiven the moneychangers and then gone onto the cross to carry all their "sins" upon himself and sacrifice his life?
...
I do not recognise or know "your" non forgiving Christ
You have obviously put words in my mouth which I did not say, and falsely judged me of having a non forgiving Christ.
Who ever you are, artsfree? I forgive you.
I’ll say it again, I’m sure (as in: I know!) Christ forgave the money changers, as we are also commanded to forgive those who trespassed against us. But forgiveness does not mean that we are to allow evil, if at all possible, to prevail against our selves or anyone else.
I’m not hateful or revengeful, but I do know what is just, after all, I am created in His image. And, I can judge (though, only in the spirit of truth).
Peace, Mark |
| artsfree |
Posted - 01 Aug 2005 : 20:50:08
quote:
Originally posted by David Merrill
[Purely Theoretical until applied.]
So powerful it is probably best to inquire, "Am I under arrest."
"No. You are being detained."
Take note of the time and begin your stopwatch. They have fifteen minutes by case law according to precedent. Give them your true name, which of course has no police record or warrants. Do not give them any information which they may use against you. Like a Date of Birth.
In fourteen minutes you should be free of the nuisance, detainment.
Regards,
David Merrill.
you must read the important footnote after reading this response
Thanks David.
You raise an interesting arguement and you present a well thought out approach;However the problem I have with it is that, in using it, you have RECOGNIZED them!
Who are they really for you to recognize them and then have them claim that you have consented to their "words" by that act of recognition?
I recognize who I want to recognise and I dont care who or what they say because "to me" they dont exist.
If you dont tell them they dont exist "by a carefully worded document" first as I do then they will makeup consent.
You are not dealing with a corrupt system (How can the mafia be corrupt that would make them honest?)as my friend Les Blanki says of the "system" or words to that effect.
It is that bad!!!! The so called Commissioner of Police(so they say) in my state was sent a document from me telling her that I do not consent to anything at any time and never will and neither is she or anyone from her corporation to set foot upon my land or attend any matter thereto and in all and every respect I do not consent and that anything delivered to me shall be deemed non deliverable. I DO NOT CONSENT
At the time they were trying to get me to contract by delivering a summons. I quoted through a closed door for them to leave. They stated that they had a right to be there. I quoted Constitutional Law and rulings from the HIGH COURT Of Australia and they fled as fast as their feet could carry them. I followed it up with the document and have not had the slightest problem since.Dont look at the title or the corporation. Look at the individual and legally pursue them if necessary and when they start getting legally pursed (by god's law)they will think hard about what they are doing but as long as the sheeple keep listening to the "words" of the self appointed "whatevers" they will keep doing it.
Important requirement in common law (god's law"). If you have a problem with an individual (whether representing a corporation or not) It is your responsibility to make that individual aware of your position so that if they then try something they cant claim consent or recognition from you.
Some people "use" redemption.This implies recognition and use of an "evil" system. I will not pursue explantion for that reason. A rotten apple cannot become a new ripe apple.
When you have achieved the status of protecting your god given freedom then you must forgive them so that the past of yesterday does not remain as the anguish of your tomorrows and then you are really free!
p.s.
I didnt do anything wrong by the way I was helping a person who I have helped for over 20 years. They have a mental illness. I was restraining them from injuring someone and they then claimed that I assaulted them and went to the "system". I am still helping this person and I dont worry about forgiving them anymore BECAUSE IT'S OVER 70 TIMES SEVEN THAT I HAVE DONE SO ALREADY!!!..LOL
important important read this
I live in a state in Australia. The methods I have used pertain to where I live and only then in a sketchy format here that requires pages of explanation and hours of study!!! Excepting for the general outlines of the themes I am attempting to communicate do not use them without full knowledge with one exception. I DO NOT CONSENT |
| David Merrill |
Posted - 31 Jul 2005 : 11:13:26
[Purely Theoretical until applied.]
So powerful it is probably best to inquire, "Am I under arrest."
"No. You are being detained."
Take note of the time and begin your stopwatch. They have fifteen minutes by case law according to precedent. Give them your true name, which of course has no police record or warrants. Do not give them any information which they may use against you. Like a Date of Birth.
In fourteen minutes you should be free of the nuisance, detainment.
Regards,
David Merrill. |
| Oneisraelite |
Posted - 31 Jul 2005 : 07:29:09
Greetings and salutations, artsfree:
Again, peace be unto the house. It is always a pleasure to meet a fellow seeker of the truth.
“I do not consent” are indeed powerful words! The Maxim of Law that that phrase references is: Actus me invito factus, non est meus actus. An act done by me against my will, is not my act. It may also be noteworthy here to point out that we may be presumed to give our consent by simply failing to unmistakably make known the fact that we do not give our consent.
“I do not consent to your detaining me! Are you detaining me?”
<quote>I recognise the word REPENT as meaning to refrain from ever doing it again. If this is so then the scripture would appear to be an impossibility because if someone has already repented and does it again then they never repented in the first place.<end quote>
Not necessarily my friend.
(1) Repent, if we understand the word correctly, means to change one’s mind and turn away from, but this is not to say that we won’t unintentionally backslide once in a while. Many of us do things without thinking or out of habit; these could be, and should be, easy things to forgive.
(2) There are so many variations of sins that it may be that a brother or sister could repent and then turn right around and ignorantly commit an entirely different one against us.
(3) It may also be important that we take notice that sin and evil are not the same Hebrew word. Sin is the Hebrew word chatta'ah or chatta'th, while evil is ra' or ra'ah. This is like discerning the subtle difference between killing and murdering, two entirely separate issues!
Sin appears to be, missing the mark, or wandering from the straight and narrow path, while evil seems to be more or less intentional. If we look at Thayer’s definition of the Greek word hamartano (sin) we can actually feel this by his choice of words:
2) to miss the mark
3) to err, be mistaken
4) to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
5) to wander from the law of God, violate God’s law, sin
In fact, Yahuwâh himself appears to more harshly punish those who intentionally transgress against Him as opposed to those who ignorantly lapse against Him.
<quote>To put away evil from amongst us starts with me and not someone else. When I have put away the evil from myself (it's not easy is it?).<end quote> [Emphasis added]
Again, we would remind ourselves that inadvertently missing the mark and intentionally perpetrating evil are two entirely different matters.
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
But otherwise, agreed; we first need to remove the log from our own eye before we can see to remove the splinter from our brother’s eye. And, Only in Yahuwâh do I have [the] righteousness and strength to do this.
<quote>It is then my scriptural/ common/ and ancient/ lawful responsibility to ensure the unrepentant are judged by their fellows under gods law.<end quote> [Emphasis added]
We hope that you are not saying that until you have achieved perfection you are not to put a murderer, let’s say, from your midst.
<quote>Namely a jury (common law is god's law) and if the individual fails to appear or accept judgement then we are to shun them and put them away from others. (no! I don’t mean JAIL)<end quote>
Common Law, in Great Britain and the United States, the unwritten law, the law that receives its binding force from immemorial (out of memory) usage and universal reception, in distinction from the written or statute law. That body of rules, principles and customs which have been received from our ancestors, and by which courts have been governed in their judicial decisions. The evidence of this law is to be found in the reports of those decisions, and the records of the courts. Some of these rules may have originated in edicts or statutes which are now lost, or in the terms and conditions of particular grants or charters; but it is most probable that many of them originated in judicial decisions founded on natural justice and equity, or on local customs.
Equity, n. [L. oequitas, from oequus, equal, even, level.]
1. Justice; right. In practice, equity is the impartial distribution of justice, or the doing that to another which the laws of God and man, and of reason, give him a right to claim.
If that bolded and underlined portion of the above definition of common law is truth, then we agree with you.
The Law of Nature is Yahuwâh’s Law.
Law of nature, is a rule of conduct arising out of the natural relations of human beings established by the Creator, and existing prior to any positive precept. Thus it is a law of nature, that one man should not injure another, and murder and fraud would be crimes, independent of any prohibition from a supreme power.
<quote>When they have no work, food, living or placed into exile then God's Law has been fulfilled and after the pangs of hunger, lack of dwelling and isolation bite then our Creator will provide for them a path unto true repentance!<end quote>
Keep in mind that those exiled from the commonwealth of Yisra’el may not be without work, food or dwelling; kosmokrator (G2888) provides for his own: If ye were of the world, the world would love his own. In fact, they may sometimes even appear, on the surface, to have it better than Yahuwâh’s citizens. Remember Dawid complaining of that in the Psalms?
<quote>As we freely consent to give away our freedoms (and with it obedience to god's commands) the right to juries, the setting up of men to lord over us, the accepting of something for nothing freebies (remember the apple?) then we also contract to join and pursue their evil ends and end up enslaved in police states governed by the power hungry disciples of the "evil" one.<end quote>
Agreed, and we like your choice of the word “freedoms”.
Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil.
Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their ‘elohiym (rulers) .
<quote>The evil one will hold sway over the world and war will be everywhere.<end quote>
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
<quote>Remember the right you allow someone else to lose is the right that you have already lost.<end quote>
Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.
And Yahushua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve Yahuwâh: for he is an set-apart ‘Elohiym (Ruler); he is a jealous ‘Elohiym (He requires exclusive loyalty); he will not forgive your rebellion nor your offences. If ye forsake Yahuwâh, and serve strange ‘elohiym (rulers) , then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good.
Now therefore put away, said he, the strange ‘elohiym (rulers) which are among you, and incline your heart unto Yahuwâh, ‘Elohiym (Ruler) of Yisra’el.
<quote>Remember to be free in every respect ....and you can't be free without forgiveness.<end quote>
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional USA.
Ephesians 2:12 & 19
An act done by me against my will is not my act. |
| artsfree |
Posted - 29 Jul 2005 : 05:50:04
quote:
Originally posted by oneisraelite
Greetings artsfree:
Peace be unto the house.
We might point out these bolded and italicized words…
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent ; thou shalt forgive him.
“…put the evil away from among you. (Deuteronomy 17:7; 19:19-20; 21:21; 22:21; 22:24; 24:7, etc.)
Shaul [Paul] seems to have followed Yahuwâh's [the LORD's] "advice": It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the nations, that one should have his father's wife. …I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed…To deliver such an one unto Satan (the Adversary) for the destruction of the flesh …
If we do not, as Yahuwâh appears to directs us, put away the evil from among us, can there be any peace? Can there be any peace of mind while child molesters, murderers and rapists run amok in our villages? If not, what do you propose we do about this situation?
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional USA.
Ephesians 2:12 & 19
An act done by me against my will is not my act.
And peace also to your's.
Thanks for the input.
I recognise the word REPENTas meaning to refrain from ever doing it again.
If this is so then the scripture would appear to be an impossibility because if someone has already repented and does it again then they never repented in the first place.
However, there is not a conflict if you understand what is really being said (as I see it).
Someone has injured you and each time has convinced you that they will never do it again( times seven) presents as a persistently evil individual and yet we have to forgive.
To put away evil from amongst us starts with me and not someone else.
When I have put away the evil from myself (it's not easy is it?).
It is then my scriptural/ common/ and ancient/ lawful responsibility to ensure the unrepentant are judged by their fellows under gods law.
Namely a jury (common law is god's law))and if the indivdual fails to appear or accept judgement then we are to shun them and put them away from others. (no! I dont mean JAIL) When they have no work, food,living or placed into exile then God's Law has been fullfilled and after the pangs of hunger, lack of dwelling and isolation bite then our Creator will provide for them a path unto true repentance!
As we freely consent to give away our freedoms (and with it obedience to god's commands) the right to juries, the setting up of men to lord over us, the accepting of something for nothing freebies (remember the apple?) then we also contract to join and pursue their evil ends and end up enslaved in police states governed by the power hungry disciples of the "evil" one.
The evil one will hold sway over the world and war will be everywhere.
Remember the right you allow someone else to lose is the right that you have already lost.. Remember the words I do not consent they are powerful legal words and the right to use them is ensrined in God's Laws and international Law.
Remember to be free in every respect ....and you can't be free without forgiveness. |
| artsfree |
Posted - 29 Jul 2005 : 04:14:44
Thanks Mark for your response.
Although you have presented a "one liner" response you have raised many and varying points.
Namely would "your" Christ really not have forgiven the moneychangers and then gone onto the cross to carry all their "sins" upon himself and sacrifice his life?
It is said in the scriptures that he prayed to his "Father" to forgive his murderers "because they know not what they do".
Would it also be true that if he was the "christ" then he had the full authority of Heaven ( I dont have that authority!) to excercise judgement in the overturning of the tables?
Perhaps you may be able to tell us the "mind of God" in that ;Why didnt he do this earlier as it has been recorded that he "preached as a youth" at the temple environs.
It is easy for us "in the twentyfirst century" to reason quickly the reasons and non reasons for the occurence of things in that time and chances are that we will be errant in so doing. If you had lived at the time you would have recognised the "High social standing" of the moneychangers as they were "doing their part" in society to further the adoration of "God" among the people. You would have attended the many religious events gluttonised yourself and gone outside to regurgitate the food as was the accepted standard of the time. (etc etc. etc). You would have liked to be associated(if you held the average belief systems of the time) with them and their actions.
All things that we "now" find repugnant.
Be wary of hasty and false judgement as God's eternal laws require that the punishment that a false accuser wished to impose upon the innocent is to be visited upon the false accuser for punishment (common, ancient and scriptural Law.)
Yet another valid reason for forgiving as you might be wrong!
Have you falsely accused "Christ" of not being "Christ"?
Your creator made man in "his image" and to be free to choose for yourself.
You were created as a free man and never take hold of anything that will take your freedom away.
The exercise of forgiveness will continue the creators purpose in keeping you free from the dictates of man and the (evil) ones. If you are bound in hate and revenge then forgiveness will SET YOU FREE.
I do not recognise or know "your" non forgiving Christ but I do know that your creator forgives and loves you, and so do I.
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| Mark |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 20:56:12
And… I’m sure Christ forgave the money-changers, before he physically threw them out of the temple.
Peace, Mark |
| Oneisraelite |
Posted - 21 Jul 2005 : 06:38:44
Greetings artsfree:
Peace be unto the house.
We might point out these bolded and italicized words…
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent ; thou shalt forgive him.
“…put the evil away from among you. (Deuteronomy 17:7; 19:19-20; 21:21; 22:21; 22:24; 24:7, etc.)
Shaul [Paul] seems to have followed Yahuwâh's [the LORD's] "advice": It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the nations, that one should have his father's wife. …I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed…To deliver such an one unto Satan (the Adversary) for the destruction of the flesh …
If we do not, as Yahuwâh appears to directs us, put away the evil from among us, can there be any peace? Can there be any peace of mind while child molesters, murderers and rapists run amok in our villages? If not, what do you propose we do about this situation?
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el,
NOT the man-made, fictional USA.
Ephesians 2:12 & 19
An act done by me against my will is not my act. |
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