| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Walter |
Posted - 19 Mar 2004 : 23:25:14
In this Biblical day the VE occurs for us in North America.
By happenstance, the new (dark) moon seems to occur on this day also.
Happy New Year!
This day (March 20) is Abib 1.
On Abib 10 (March 29) one selects the Passover lamb. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Walter |
Posted - 05 Mar 2005 : 15:10:55
As a heads up, the navy online data for this coming equinox shows it will be at 12:33 UT, or 17:33 EST, on Sunday, March 20. This makes Sunday - as the day containing the VE - the start of the next year, and by prescription the first weekly Sabbath of the next year. For those of you following the calendar reckoning I support in this thread, you will see that Sunday is the natural, weekly Sabbath in the current year as well - just as it should be. The next 'slip' in the day of the week that is Sabbath will be at the next Pentecost (by the calendar I use), when Sabbath will "move" to Monday. (It looks like the VE for the following year will be a double Sabbath, btw.)
Fwiw, I'm really slammed with work so I've dropped the board subscription. I'll check back when things let up. |
| Cornerstone Foundation |
Posted - 25 Jan 2005 : 13:29:21
quote:
Originally posted by jambosas
Gen 1:5 does not translate - were the first day as to include night - it just says day one - so daylight being day only is a valid statement?
Cornerstone Foundation wrote:
We are presuming that if the above color coded definitions were applied you, jambosas, who be stating:
quote:
Genesis 1:5 does not translate - were the first day/date as to include night - it just says day/daylight being day/daylight only is a valid statement?
Question No. 1: Is our presumption correct?
Question No. 2: Did you place the question mark at the end intentionally?...and if so will you please restate the question in different words?
Best Regards,
Marty |
| jambosas |
Posted - 25 Jan 2005 : 12:59:31
Gen 1:5 does not translate - were the first day as to include night - it just says day one - so daylight being day only is a valid statement? |
| Walter |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 16:23:16
quote:
Originally posted by oneisraelite
Greetings once more:
quote:
a[n] holy convocation [Emphasis added]
As an interesting aside here, we might point out that the letters Y,H, and W, the very letters most commonly used to depict the Set-Apart Name in the English language, were at one time all semi-vowels as they were and are in the Hebrew [yod, hey & waw (and aleph)] but for some uncanny reason  only the Y remains. Hence, according to the rules of English grammar "an" would be the correct article or modifier in front of a word starting with the letter "H".
I've read before on a web board that originally Hebrew had vowels but they were dropped/changed to give the current usage. I'd like to get a book reference to this claim if anyone knows of one. It appears modern hebrew uses pointings to make vowels.
Actually, if you look at most any encyclopedia, you will see that the early vowels (aleph, he, yod, oyin, vau) are now the vowels we use (a, e, i, o, u). |
| Oneisraelite |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 15:02:12
That is correct, Marty.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
| Cornerstone Foundation |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 12:55:25
quote:
[blue]Originally posted by oneisraelite
Greetings once more:
quote:
a[n] holy convocation [Emphasis added]
As an interesting aside here, we might point out that the letters Y,H, and W, the very letters most commonly used to depict the Set-Apart Name in the English language, were at one time all semi-vowels as they were and are in the Hebrew [yod, hey & waw (and aleph)] but for some uncanny reason only the Y remains. Hence, according to the rules of English grammar "an" would be the correct article or modifier in front of a word starting with the letter "H".
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL.
Cornerstone Foundation wrote:
Do you mean such as in the phrases:
.......1.) eleven o'clock is an hour before noon.
.......2.) the trusted servant was listed an heir in the will.
Best Regards,
Marty |
| Oneisraelite |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 09:14:40
Greetings once more:
quote:
a[n] holy convocation [Emphasis added]
As an interesting aside here, we might point out that the letters Y,H, and W, the very letters most commonly used to depict the Set-Apart Name in the English language, were at one time all semi-vowels as they were and are in the Hebrew [yod, hey & waw (and aleph)] but for some uncanny reason only the Y remains. Hence, according to the rules of English grammar "an" would be the correct article or modifier in front of a word starting with the letter "H".
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL.
uncanny adj. 1 mysterious or unfamiliar, esp. in such a way as to frighten or make uneasy; preternaturally strange; eerie; weird – Webster’s New World Dictionary of the English Language –Third College Edition
|
| Oneisraelite |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 08:28:04
Greetings once more brother Walter:
Peace be unto the house.
quote:
I conclude the day of the holy convocation must also be a seventh day or Sabbath. Do you disagree?
We humbly disagree, but for this reason only; though it may be a day in which no servile work is to be done, save what must be done to eat, this does not necessarily make it a "seventh day", for as we have attempted to show, some are "special set-apart days" {holy days} and these are called shabbathons (H7677), which are treated "like" a seventh day shabbath but are not a seventh day shabbath. Another way of saying this is that it is a shabbath observance without being a seventh day.
A good example might be this, kosmokrator [Yahowah's adversary] may treat their 4th of July the same as their weekly holy day (a day off for them and their servants), but it is not their weekly, or seventh (or first) day, holy day.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
| Oneisraelite |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 08:18:29
Addendum
We might also point out once more here, while we are on this subject, that "blowing of trumpets" we perceive to be a mistranslation of the Hebrew word teruah, which means "an acclamation of joy".
ACCLAMA'TION, n. [L. acclamatio. See acclaim.] A shout of applause uttered by a multitude. - Webster's 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language
The Hebew word yobel would have probably been the word of choice had this meant "blowing of trumpets", and shophar is apparently the Hebrew word for "trumpet".
Let us also state for the record that if one wanted to "blow a trumpet" or a "rams horn" as an "acclamation of joy", we see no harm in that, in fact, it can be fun for children and adults alike. The key is to remind everyone, especially the children, what it is truly about.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
| Walter |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 08:13:47
quote:
Originally posted by oneisraelite
Greetings and salutations in the name of the King, brother Walter:
Peace be unto the house.
We believe that you will find that Leviticus 23:3 is indeed a weekly shabbath (H7676) as you state, however at 23:24 you will find that it is not a weekly shabbath (H7676), but rather, a shabbathon (H7677), a "special set-apart day" separate of the weekly shabbaths (H7676). Further, we believe that you will find that a "convocation" is the Hebrew word miqrah (H4744), which is very much the same as the Greek word ekklesia, both meaning "a calling out". It was translated most times as: assembly, calling, convocation, reading.
CONVOCATION, n. [L.] 1. The act of calling or assembling by summons. 2. An assembly.
Further, an "holy convocation", means that it is a sanctified, i.e. set apart calling or assembly or perhaps an assembly of the set-apart ones, Yahowah's peculiar people, His citizens.
Our understanding is that this was a time of study, of the Scripture, of Law, of the issues at hand, etc.
Our hope is that this has been helpful.
I need to study the difference between the words tagged as 07676 and 07677, but I don't see any reason to say that a holy convocation is not also a Sabbath (of whatever word). If you're having a[n] holy convocation, you are not working as you are commanded to do six days of a "week"; I conclude the day of the holy convocation must also be a seventh day or Sabbath. Do you disagree? |
| Oneisraelite |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 07:42:57
Greetings and salutations in the name of the King, brother Walter:
Peace be unto the house.
We believe that you will find that Leviticus 23:3 is indeed a weekly shabbath (H7676) as you state, however at 23:24 you will find that it is not a weekly shabbath (H7676), but rather, a shabbathon (H7677), a "special set-apart day" separate of the weekly shabbaths (H7676). Further, we believe that you will find that a "convocation" is the Hebrew word miqrah (H4744), which is very much the same as the Greek word ekklesia, both meaning "a calling out". It was translated most times as: assembly, calling, convocation, reading.
CONVOCATION, n. [L.] 1. The act of calling or assembling by summons. 2. An assembly.
Further, an "holy convocation", means that it is a sanctified, i.e. set apart calling or assembly or perhaps an assembly of the set-apart ones, Yahowah's peculiar people, His citizens.
Our understanding is that this was a time of study, of the Scripture, of Law, of the issues at hand, etc.
Our hope is that this has been helpful.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
| Walter |
Posted - 22 Jan 2005 : 07:19:10
quote:
Originally posted by oneisraelite
Contrary to what you state above, we believe that Abib 15 is not ever referred to as a shabbath (H7676), but instead we are simply instructed to “do no servile work therein”, thus we have ass-u-med that it must be a “special set-apart day”, which would mean that it is a shabbathon (H7677), though it is not emphatically stated.
Leviticus 23:7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
Numbers 28:18 In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein…
Lev. 23:3* Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Lev. 23:24* Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.
I think an holy convocation is also a Sabbath, by definition. |
| Oneisraelite |
Posted - 21 Jan 2005 : 21:42:55
Greetings and salutations brother Marty:
Peace be unto the house.
Sorry we took so long answering this, we just now found it.
quote:
We can see nowhere in Scripture where it is said that Abib 15 is a shabbathon (H7677)…From what we have seen all other days, are referred to by the Hebrew word shabbath (H7676).
Contrary to what you state above, we believe that Abib 15 is not ever referred to as a shabbath (H7676), but instead we are simply instructed to “do no servile work therein”, thus we have ass-u-med that it must be a “special set-apart day”, which would mean that it is a shabbathon (H7677), though, as you correctly state above, it is not emphatically stated.
Leviticus 23:7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
Numbers 28:18 In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein…
Hope this is helpful.
fellowcitizen of the commonwealth of Yisra'el, NOT the STATE OF ISRAEL. |
| Cornerstone Foundation |
Posted - 19 Jan 2005 : 13:44:34
Cornerstone Foundation wrote:
Oneisraylite made a post to the Lunar Sabbath Topic on Gregorian 1/19/2005 at 8:49:05 AM.
We are responding to the contents of that post here in the Biblical (Solar) Calendar Topic because in our opinion that is where such a discussion belongs.
We would prefer that the topic be entitled Scriptural Solar Calendar.
It is our understanding that Oneisraylite and Walter both understand these sabbaths to be sabbaths on the Ancient Hebrew Solar Calendar as opposed to a lunar sabbaths on the lunar calendar.
It is our further understanding that Oneisraylite, Walter and Cornerstone Foundation are in agreement that the lunar calendar is not a scripturally based calendar established by Yahweh
.
The lunar calendar is a calendar that the Israylite people used at times. The Scripture indicates the use of the lunar calendar, perhaps, but also records Yahweh's extreme displeasure concerning its use.
Having said that, will the reader please direct his or her attention to the following exerpt from Oneisraylite's post and Cornnerstone's question concerning it as follows:
quote:
In his 1/19 2005 (Gregorian): 08:49:05 AM post to the Lunar Sabbath Topic Oneisraylite wrote:
Greetings Walter:
Peace be unto the house.
You state:
quote:
Walter wrote....
If 1/15 is a Sabbath...
Therein, perhaps, lies the key. We have found, nowhere in the Scripture, that the 15th of Abib is a "shabbath", it is however, a "shabbathon", we believe. Shabbathons [H7677], are, a sabbatism or special holiday [set-apart day]. A sabbatism, is a special holiday [set-apart day] that is treated like a “weekly” sabbath [H7676]. These occur also on “of the 1st and last days of the Feast of Tabernacles; the Day of At-one-ment; and the misnamed Feast of Trumpets” [Day of Acclamation]....
.....In fact, there are a couple of places in the Scripture where we see a shabbath of a shabbathon, an interesting phraseology, to say the least.
Cornerstone Foundation wrote:
We can see nowhere in Scripture where it is said that Abib 15 is a shabbathon (H7677)
It seems that the only three days that the canonical Holy Scriptures refer to as shabbathons (H7677) are the following:
....... 1.) Feast of Trumpets (Ethanim 1, see Leviticus 23:24),
....... 2.) the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles (Ethanim 15, see Leviticus 23:39)
....... 3.) the Last Great Day (Ethanim 22, the eight day or the first day following the seven days of the Feast of Tabernacles. It is referred to as the Closing Gathering. See Leviticus 23:33-39)
From what we have seen all other days, are referred to by the Hebrew word shabbath (H7676).
Did we miss anything in our study of this?
Respectfully submitted,
Marty
|
| Robert-James |
Posted - 05 Jan 2005 : 16:29:11
Greetings Marty,
so sorry to have not answered you, I just noticed the post, looking to PM you.
I am a great help...yes to both...A-B. I did write the response in regards B though, at that time.
Our problem is what you say...ancient hebrew solar calendar. This is previous to any babylonian captivity period.
Enoch lived 365 years and was translated. Solar. The mysteriums of our Father's faith, is a mystery, as per Yahushua talking in riddles and parables. When the seventh angel sounds...the mystery is finished. Me thinks that some are hearing the seventh angel's message{s} now, and truely, for awhile now.
Shall we prove the resurrection, for that matter any revelation, before the time? Circumspect, close to the vest.
My day starts at sun up, approximately 6:00 a.m.
Now the world has the day start at midnight, for commercial purposes.
The nerve of those British...Grenwich Village time!!! How close to Westminister Abby or Glastonbury, where Yoseph of Aramitha lived, is that line?
The night is far spent, arise and shine, may the Glory of Yahuweh be upon You.
Upon this format, to answer A would be so time consuming. It would bore, and cause arguements. Revelation comes like lightening. Mere words fall away.
Mary noticed the resurrection at day break. Zerah...a Kingline of Yudah.
A new day dawned. The third Day.
There is something working that is so simple, even a child can get it.
|
| Cornerstone Foundation |
Posted - 25 Dec 2004 : 21:05:26
quote:
Originally posted by Robert-James
Greetings,
find a young child who has no dogmatic religion to defend, and ask him-her when a day starts... And when they can tell it is night. {not bed time}
Blessings,
Cornerstone Foundation wrote:
Robert,
It is because we have communicated with you in the past and realize that you are far past the maturity of a young child that we address such questions to you in our search for the truth in this matter.
quote:
Hebrews 5:13-6:3....
For everyone who continues to feed on the milk is unskilled in the doctrine of righteousness ; for he is a babe.
But strong meet belongs to those who are full-grown; for those whose senses are trained by practice to discern both righteousness and evil.
Therefore, leaving the elementary teachings about the Messiah, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward Yahweh, of the teaching of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrections of the dead, and of eternal judgement;
If indeed Yahweh permits, we will proceed to advanced teaching.
Robert,
We know that you are knowlegeable, capable and have the resources to participate in this discussion in a meaningful and edifying manner.
If Yahweh wills...please proceed.
Question: With the more specific definitions, did you mean? Answer A...
quote:
Even a child can understand the simplicity of this...the day/date starts with the day/light coming in.
or do you instead mean?....Answer B
quote:
Even a child can understand the simplicity of this....the day/daylight starts with the day/light coming in.
If you intend to communicate Answer B, the answer is simple and obvious.
If you intend to tell us that Answer A is what you mean that is an entirely different matter.
We perceive that Answer A cannot be supported by the Scriptures as they relate to the Ancient Hebrew Solar Calendar.
Best Regards,
Marty |
| Robert-James |
Posted - 25 Dec 2004 : 17:43:16
Greetings,
find a young child who has no dogmatic religion to defend, and ask him-her when a day starts... And when they can tell it is night. {not bed time}
Blessings,
|
| Cornerstone Foundation |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 18:21:03
quote:
Originally posted by Robert-James
Greetings Cornerstone,
yes, even a child can understand the simplicity of this. Which is why I do. The day starts with the Light coming in. Metaphysically and physically.[/br]
Cornerstone Foundation wrote:
Robert James,
Using the more specific definitions...do you mean....
quote:
..even a child can understand the simplicity of this...the day/date starts with the day/daylight coming in?
Please clarify this.
Thank you
Marty
|
| Robert-James |
Posted - 24 Dec 2004 : 18:05:05
Greetings Cornerstone,
yes, even a child can understand the simplicity of this. Which is why I do. The day starts with the Light coming in. Metaphysically and physically.
Scripture is for the spirit man, the natural man will not conceive {open up} to receive it, i.e. the seed of truth. Receive the seed-truth, and one can bring forth life. Jezebel was chaste.
I seriously doubt that the Master teacher hammered home ancient scripture to get the truth across. Truth is self evident...to those with eyes to see and ears to hear.
To think the day starts at night is to be double minded.
Does bad start with good?
Does wrong start with right?
I won't ARGUE scripture. We all have the same writings, but not the same mind or heart.
I say mine, you yours.
Until the Daystar arise in your hearts...
poetic language.
Marty, so much is so simple, us smart GUYS don't get 'it'.
Like, is the Kingdsom here and now? or are we waiting for something? |
| Walter |
Posted - 23 Dec 2004 : 21:58:36
quote:
Originally posted by Cornerstone Foundation
...
The twelve hour period defined as evening includes that part of the day when the shadows are longest just before the sun goes behind the western horizon.
An amplified rendering of the KJV translation of Yeremyah 6:4-5 might read as follows if the green definition was used for evening and the blue definition was used for night:
quote:
Prepare ye war against her; arise, and let us go up at noon. Woe unto us! day/daylight goeth away, for the shadows are stretched out to the greastest length right now that they will be at any time during the 12 hour portion of a day/date called evening. That 12 hour period began at noon when the shadows began to be stretched out and will end at midnight...but the shadows are lengthened the greatest right now because the sun is about to go behind the western horizon. Right after 12:00 midnight it will no longer evening...then it will be morning...one hour after midnight it will be 1 A.M. or in other words one o'clock in the morning.
Arise, and let us go during the part of the day/date when it is dark, and let us destroy her palaces. The part of the day/date when it is dark will include part of the twelve hours of evening and part of the twelve hours of morning because part of the dark night happens during morning. If we are destroying palaces at 1 A.M. we will be destroying palaces at night and morning simutaneously...because it is always dark night at one o'clock in the morning
Hi Marty,
Thanks for your expression of confidence. <g> I hope I am deserving when the time comes.
I would repeat the few verses I posted recently. These show that a "day" goes from even to even; that a new day starts when it gets dark (at the beginning of night-time); and that evening is not the same as morning or noon. There are numerous examples for these. Evening (and morning) is a small amount of time and not a half day - otherwise it conflicts with Scripture, afaict.
* The pattern (both night and then "day" constitute a day):
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
* Followed (from even unto even):
Leviticus 23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.
* Again followed (dark/night marks beginning of a Biblical day):
Nehemiah 13:19 And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark (Strong's #06751) before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.
* Times of day distinguished (so people can't claim even is at daybreak or noon):
Psalm 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
Some other examples:
Exodus 16:13* ¶ And it came to pass, that at even the quails came up, and covered the camp: and in the morning the dew lay round about the host.
Exodus 18:14* And when Moses' father in law saw all that he did to the people, he said, What is this thing that thou doest to the people? why sittest thou thyself alone, and all the people stand by thee from morning unto even?
Leviticus 22:6 The soul which hath touched any such shall be unclean until even, and shall not eat of the holy things, unless he wash his flesh with water. 7) And when the sun is down, he shall be clean, and shall afterward eat of the holy things; because it is his food.
Judges 19:9* And when the man rose up to depart, he, and his concubine, and his servant, his father in law, the damsel's father, said unto him, Behold, now the day draweth toward evening, I pray you tarry all night: behold, the day groweth to an end, lodge here, that thine heart may be merry; and to morrow get you early on your way, that thou mayest go home.
Proverbs 7:9 In the twilight (Strong's 05933), in the evening, in the black and dark night:
Mark 1:32 And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils.
Luke 24:29* But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
There's only one verse that suggests the day starts at sunrise, and I believe I can persuade an open mind that it is mistranslated.
Walter |
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